[quote=""RevAnakin""]Ecthelion is your favorite character?[/quote]

Yarp.

[quote=""BladeCollector""]I am all about comic-con next year! I have been wanting to go for a long time, a friend of mine from covers it and has all the cool press access.[/quote]

There's at least a 50% chance I will be attending next year.

[quote=""RevAnakin""]But really I'm on one side "Lord of the Rings" is on the other, and the third is fairly in the middle.[/quote]

Lord of the Rings is a genius, he's one of the admins. He and halfir are fantastically knowledgable. I'll have to check out the thread.


So looking at the pics from SDCC so far, I wasn't e xp ecting Orcist to have a natural wood handle. Is that natural wood? I can't really tell. I figured it would have blue wrap, like Glamdring (Although in my imagination I always pictured it being red).

Translation?

Hmm...blue tooth? Sounds like a disease. Maybe the dental care in Gondolin was sub par?

I jest!

[quote=""Fingolfin""]So looking at the pics from SDCC so far, I wasn't e xp ecting Orcist to have a natural wood handle. Is that natural wood? I can't really tell. I figured it would have blue wrap, like Glamdring (Although in my imagination I always pictured it being red).[/quote]


Definitely looks like wood from that picture but could it be really distressed leather?

[quote=""Fingolfin""]Hmm...blue tooth? Sounds like a disease. Maybe the dental care in Gondolin was sub par?

I jest![/quote]


I thought I was supposed to put this sword up to my ear, pair it with my cell phone, and I could drive my car and talk hands free!

I can't stop looking at it. It's so beautiful

I'm so glad UC got the license to produce the movie replicas. The lotr replicas are the best wall hangers and I can't wait to see their hobbit lineup.

After looking at the scabbard I now understand what Kit was talking about and I doubt we'll see a replica of that beauty made. I like the wood handle and the wooden scabbard.

[quote=""Elvenguard13""]I can't stop looking at it. It's so beautiful

I'm so glad UC got the license to produce the movie replicas. The lotr replicas are the best wall hangers and I can't wait to see their hobbit lineup.

After looking at the scabbard I now understand what Kit was talking about and I doubt we'll see a replica of that beauty made. I like the wood handle and the wooden scabbard. [/quote]
Totaly agree EG13.

Wow, I didn't even see the scabbard. I cannot wait for some more pictures of that. I like the two tones. I wonder if that MSSC will include scabbard. If it does, I might just start saving like crazy!

I think there could be different runes on the other side, perhaps saying who the sword belonged to.

[quote=""Elvenguard13""]I think there could be different runes on the other side, perhaps saying who the sword belonged to.[/quote]

I have no doubt there are more runes, but you have to admit to call it "Blue tooth" is pretty corny. Tooth really fits as it is "Biter" but "blue," why? Just because it glows blue? So does Glamdring, but it's translation wasn't "Glamdring, Blue mace!"

[quote=""RevAnakin""]I have no doubt there are more runes, but you have to admit to call it "Blue tooth" is pretty corny. Tooth really fits as it is "Biter" but "blue," why? Just because it glows blue? So does Glamdring, but it's translation wasn't "Glamdring, Blue mace!"[/quote]

Your and Fin's comments were funny. Also, I think there could be another rune hidden under the front of the guard, the shadow covers it but I can make out a shape underneath. Not sure if it is a rune tho. And Also I'm not sure how much of a difference one rune could make to the translation if it was there.

I wonder how Val feels about Orcrist now after seeing this pic?

Given that "Elug" itself I cannot find in any Tolkien work, and I did a letter finder and nothing has -elug- so one more letter shouldn't change anything. It looks to me that all that is in the shadow is a dot that separates the two words.

Now, another source has translated it as "NAGOL E-LŶG ORKhRIST"
‘Tooth of Snake Goblin Cleaver’

I cannot for the life of me see how they make the very clear Nos. 45 for 'u' turn into 'Ŷ'

Plus 'lyg' is snakes (plural, not singular)

http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2012/07 ... and-wargs/

Plus Thranduil's sword is supposed to have a lot of runes on it. More chances for them to screw up?

lmao i wanna see a pic though and rev i have have found a fantastic spring steel battle ready smith Odin blades.

Hmm interesting link, Rev. I'm curious as to the dwarf speaking Khuzdul: on one hand, they wouldn't speak it to outsiders. But on the other, I really want to hear more on it!

[quote=""Fingolfin""]Hmm interesting link, Rev. I'm curious as to the dwarf speaking Khuzdul: on one hand, they wouldn't speak it to outsiders. But on the other, I really want to hear more on it![/quote]

First of all this has so many flaws that I cannot even look past and I am usually the first one to defend the movies. I thought the axe embedded in his head was dumb from the first time I saw it and if they do this, ugh, what's the point? Honestly, there is no point in making him some sort of disabled, mumbling dwarf.

Une xp ected party:

" 'At your service!' said Bifur, Bofur, and Bombur standing in a row."

In common speech English, not a mixture of two saying it in English and one dumbly speaking the ULTIMATE HIDDEN LANGUAGE of the Dwarves. Honestly, if this is true, they are just wasting money and time literally making up everything he is going to say. So they pay Salo or whoever to "create" something that we have almost no reference to for no point, and no use in the character, character arc, or plot of the story.

Fine, Salo can make up some words to put on the axes and then tell us later what they mean. It adds to the mythos of Tolkien's dwarves. But if we thought Gimli getting mad and saying one line of Dwarvish was bad, now we have a who movie of babbling, axe head blurting out the secrets of the universe.

There is an old saying represented by K.I.S.S. Keep it simple stupid! (talking to production here, not anyone on the forum)

That article said Orcrist had a dragon tooth handle, which probably means we are gonna get a plastic/resin handle on the replica.I hope we don't, I always worry that resin handles will break easily.

Hear, hear, Rev! Honestly, I think PJ really takes dumb ideas too far sometimes. Once he gets it in his head that something is 'cool,' there's no stopping that runaway train. For myself, this just confirms my theory from earlier: Khuzdul is NOT a secret language in PJ's alternate Middle-earth. I find this unfortunate because it just distances the whole thing even further in my mind from Tolkien's creation, and that is never a good thing.

As for Orcrist having a dragon's tooth for a handle? Really? Would that even be possible? At the time that Orcrist was theoretically forged, wasn't Glaurung the only dragon around? I'm pretty sure he didn't just gift one of his teeth to an elven smith to put on a sword. By the time dragons were becoming more commonly seen, Gondolin was getting its butt kicked and Orcrist should have already been around for some time.

[quote=""Elvenguard13""]I wonder how Val feels about Orcrist now after seeing this pic?[/quote]

Still not impressed, EG.

Snake Tooth? I don't buy it as I don't think it would be chronologically possible. Also, the shape and look of the sword still bothers me.

Here is a task for Rev, our resident photo tinkerer: take the clearest picture of Orcrist so far, do a mirror image of it so the blade is reversed, then paste the two images together along the straight edge. You are going to get a nearly exact copy of Sting. Similarly, take an existing photo of Sting lying down flat and crop out half the image along the centre of the blade. Same effect: Orcrist! Even the little curvy pattern etched into the blade is the same! Just not very original and I think it really lacks thought and creativity.

[quote=""Valkrist""]Hear, hear, Rev! Honestly, I think PJ really takes dumb ideas too far sometimes. Once he gets it in his head that something is 'cool,' there's no stopping that runaway train. For myself, this just confirms my theory from earlier: Khuzdul is NOT a secret language in PJ's alternate Middle-earth. I find this unfortunate because it just distances the whole thing even further in my mind from Tolkien's creation, and that is never a good thing.
[/quote]

I remember in production video #3, the cast was talking about how insane it was to try and speak Khuzdul. My only hope is that they will only be speaking it away from the ears of Gandalf and Bilbo. I don't mind Salo making up the language as long as it fits within what Tolkien said, Dwarves essentially only speak it to each other.


[quote=""Valkrist""]As for Orcrist having a dragon's tooth for a handle? Really? Would that even be possible? At the time that Orcrist was theoretically forged, wasn't Glaurung the only dragon around? I'm pretty sure he didn't just gift one of his teeth to an elven smith to put on a sword. By the time dragons were becoming more commonly seen, Gondolin was getting its butt kicked and Orcrist should have already been around for some time.[/quote]

Let us say in the wildest dreams of production it is a dragon's tooth. That material would be so valuable, why in the world would Orcrist's handle be made of it and not Glamdring's? Think about it, Glamdring was the sword of the KING! Orcrist was the sword of a nobleman, but no king. Unless they are writing or found somewhere that Ecthelion slew a dragon (doubtful).

[quote=""Valkrist""]take the clearest picture of Orcrist so far, do a mirror image of it so the blade is reversed, then paste the two images together along the straight edge. You are going to get a nearly exact copy of Sting. Similarly, take an existing photo of Sting lying down flat and crop out half the image along the centre of the blade. Same effect: Orcrist! Even the little curvy pattern etched into the blade is the same! Just not very original and I think it really lacks thought and creativity.[/quote]

Sorry this is the best picture I have of the overall sword.

Orcrist doubled:


Sting cut down the side of the handle:



WOOT, 1,000 posts!! I am a King! I need a new title (screen name) Beren or Turgon or something kingly!

Orcrist looks ugly when its doubled.

On the dragon tooth handle, I'm not that familiar with the histories of middle earth but could it be that Orcrist was an heirloom from some great Elf and it was passed down to someone (possibly Ecthelion) who then had it engraved with runes.

Just a thought.

Even if it is a "passed down" heirloom, it was specifically noted that Orcrist was made in Gondolin. Through the entire few hundred years that Gondolin existed in secret, there were really no dragons, the Eagle kept everything that flew away.

[quote=""RevAnakin""]Even if it is a "passed down" heirloom, it was specifically noted that Orcrist was made in Gondolin. Through the entire few hundred years that Gondolin existed in secret, there were really no dragons, the Eagle kept everything that flew away.[/quote]

Ah ok, so scratch that idea hahaha. Kit probably knows more about it than we do, but we can't get the answer out of him until October That article claimed it was 100% accurate information but it never gave any citation for where the info came from or from who, just that secret spy.

Your translation sounds better, Rev. But we'll have to wait and see to find out who is correct.

By all means my Elvish to English translation of 'elug' may be wrong, BUT I know for a fact it is 'elug' not 'e-lyg.' All we have to do is look in the language appendix for that one.

I never thought of bone or tooth when I saw the handle, I thought it was just incredibly old wood. if it was a tooth it must have been one hell of a dragon, the handle on Orcrist looks longer than Glamdring's. Yeh Dragons would be big, but it still seems a lot longer than what I e xp ect a Dragons tooth to be.

There also seems to be a similar grain to the scabbard in the handle, I saw that as being the grain of the wood not a tooth or bone. But then there is that weird "spine" going up the handle. I wonder what that is?

I am just praying that if "Dragon's Tooth" is really and truly the name, that at least the handle is wood, not actual "dragon's tooth." There is such a vast amount of history in Tolkien's works. As another member of lotrplaza asked that I agree with, "I wonder why the film-makers feel like they have to come up with more details like this - isn't there enough in The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings, The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, the twelve volumes of The History of Middle-earth, the two volumes of The History of the Hobbit, The Children of Húrin, The Road Goes Ever On, and the various publications of artistic and linguistic materials to be getting along with?"

I still love the design, regardless of the dragon tooth. I can't wait till October when Orcrist and the rest of UC's first wave (should) go up for pre-order or at least there will be some information released. Then Kit will also be able to talk more about it with us.

Of all the merchandise being released, the stuff I am unimpressed with is the action figures. They aren't consistent with the lord of the rings line and the detail looks terrible. I have a few of the lotr figures on display and I thought it would be cool to have some of the Hobbit figures up as well, but yeh I won't be buying any.

Yeah, the old Lord of the Rings Action figures were absolutely stunning. The level of detail from Toy Biz blew every other action figure of mine out of the water. I am equally unimpressed as well with the figures.

I am still excited and will buy Orcrist, I just can't understand why you would change the lore of something very specifically described.

I am just going to stay ignorant of the runes accuracy because I literally have no idea.

Do I watch a new Star Trek movie and translate the Klingon or Vulcan or Romulan to see if it matches 100% canon, no, I never thought to. Or do I watch a movie and translate a real language that was in a movie, nope again.

Don't get me wrong, I respect everyone's opinions and how they want everything to be perfect for them, but in my mind, the movies are one man's adaptation (well according to Val, one man and 2 harpies, 2 winches, etc) of another man's creation. The key is adaptation.

It has a lot to do with the fact that I was Middle Earth ignorant before LOTR the movies came out. I was probably the only person in the world that had actually never heard of LOTR the books before the movies, or the Hobbit for that matter.

Back to Orcrist, I had no image in my mind what the sword should look like, when I saw it the first time, I was a bit taken aback because it was odd and didn't seem to flow with Sting and Glamdring, but I am going to get it and I will see when I actually see the sword.

Same thing with Hobbit, no matter what everyone complains about, everyone is going to see the movies, probably everyone is going to buy the TE on DVD and/or BD, then EEs on DVD and/or BD, then if they make one the super duper middle earth uber Hobbit/LOTR editions. So according to ticket sales and DVD sales etc and the enormous profits, we all liked what PJ and his harem of harpies created.


Sorry, I'll get off my soapbox now... ready 1..2..3 continue rune translation discussion.

I am with you for most of that account. I love the movies for what they are separately for sure. But honestly, if I was the guy giving P.J. money, I would be really mad that they spent xxxx.xx amount of dollars having someone translate something that A. Doesn't even match the Elvish Cirth Runes and B. a background that has absolutely no place in all of Tolkien's works. It seems to me that it would have been that much easier just to simply do what was written. And we are talking about props here, not story, so P.J. can't say, "Well that just wouldn't work in film form." Which he is usually right in saying that, IMO.

[quote=""RevAnakin""] Unless they are writing or found somewhere that Ecthelion slew a dragon (doubtful).[/quote]

Well, he did kill the biggest, nastiest Balrog that ever lived, so the idea of him killing a huge dragon is not implausible. It is, however, canonically impossible. Glaurung, more of a big worm, was the only dragon even seen until the Fall of Gondolin. The sword would've been forged long before the battle.

[quote=""RevAnakin""]Sorry this is the best picture I have of the overall sword.

Orcrist doubled:


Sting cut down the side of the handle:



WOOT, 1,000 posts!! I am a King! I need a new title (screen name) Beren or Turgon or something kingly![/quote]

Lol Val, I hate to say you're right...but you're right. They totally chopped Sting in half. For the record, I still think it's badass. I mean, beautiful Medieval swords and renaissance swords are much more simplistic than Orcist, and I don't think the swordsmiths lacked originality. However, I do note that those were made for functionality, not screentime.

As for your King title, Rev...how about "King not as kingly as Fingolfin"

[quote=""Fingolfin""]Well, he did kill the biggest, nastiest Balrog that ever lived, so the idea of him killing a huge dragon is not implausible. It is, however, canonically impossible. Glaurung, more of a big worm, was the only dragon even seen until the Fall of Gondolin. The sword would've been forged long before the battle.
[/quote]

You are correct, Glaurung is the only dragon even described in the entire time period of Gondolin and Elrond specifically says in The Hobbit that all three swords they found were forged in Gondolin. So the only way the "Dragon's Tooth" story works is if someone killed a dragon long, long before Gondolin and passed it down to Ecthelion (or he killed it himself, a long time before). Of course, none of that is written in Tolkien's words.

Also, please excuse me, I have been misspelling "Sindarin" this whole time as "Sindarian..." stupid auto-spell!

[quote=""Fingolfin""]
As for your King title, Rev...how about "King not as kingly as Fingolfin" [/quote]

Hey, I said I was I was willing to take the title of your not-as-awesome-as-you son!

Alright, so after being educated on lotrplaza.com, Nos. 45 represents 'ü' which has the same sound as 'y.' So it is E-lyg meaning 'of the snake," but either way still has a history problem with Glaurung being the only dragon of the time and he died leagues away in Nargothrond right before the Fall of Gondolin.

New translation picture...

Could the snake/dragon be a person? When we call someone a snake its usually to imply they are treacherous. Just a thought. I suspect snake/dragon may have another meaning in the elven world.

I don't recall any elf having the title or nickname of "snake" plus some "spy"said the handle was made out of"dragons tooth"

[quote=""Valkrist""]Still not impressed, EG....Also, the shape and look of the sword still bothers me....[T]ake the clearest picture of Orcrist so far, do a mirror image of it so the blade is reversed, then paste the two images together along the straight edge. You are going to get a nearly exact copy of Sting. Similarly, take an existing photo of Sting lying down flat and crop out half the image along the centre of the blade. Same effect: Orcrist! Even the little curvy pattern etched into the blade is the same! Just not very original and I think it really lacks thought and creativity.[/quote]

Bingo, Val. I kind of suspected you were right all along, but to see it actually take shape....

And I don't like it either, not no way, not no how (with apologies to the Cowardly Lion).

Maybe I'll feel differently when I see it....maybe.

Jeez, I hope they did a better [lots better] design with Thranduil's sword.
Then again we might get a middle eastern style scimitar since Orcrist (note, Rev: no 'h' :laugh so resembles a falcata.

[quote=""Deimos""] since Orcrist (note, Rev: no 'h' :laugh so resembles a falcata.[/quote]

Well, I have abandoned all hope once I translated it to "Dragon's tooth" and found out that Bifur is supposedly going to be speaking Dwarvish the entire movie because of his "accident with the axe head..."

Yeah, this movie is losing some serious points with me. First that whole idiocy with the Nazgul being imprisoned in Dol Guldur by the Dunedain (really? that's the best you can do?) and now this whole Orcrist and dragon's tooth crap?

It's like Rev said earlier, what really is the point of creating all these stupid facts when the history of Middle-earth itself is already replete with unused information that, are you ready for it, is actually pretty cool?

It really all boils down to one thing: some folks just really can't help but try to leave their mark on someone else's work. Necessities aside, Jackson and his two hags of doom feel they can do a better job than the Professor, plain and simple. Rather than use what is already there, they have this arrogant need to put their name in Middle-earth by creating an alternate version of it that conforms to their distorted and clearly (in their minds) superior vision.

Oh, and BC... for that rant, you're getting banned for two weeks.

Found a few more pics from SDCC

Orcrist is so beautiful....

And Balin's mace/sword is really cool. I hope UC produce a replica version. Weta are also producing a replica of Balin's mace from poly urethane

Dwalin's axes are called grasper and keeper http://photos.actionfigs.com/weta/p7417 ... obbit.html

Im almost positive Orcrist will be for sale. Dont know if its been mentioned but the plaque says master swordsmiths collection.

[quote=""Valkrist""]
Jackson and his two hags of doom...[/quote]

Can we start a thread for Val's nicknames for Walsh and Boyens

[quote=""Valkrist""]
Oh, and BC... for that rant, you're getting banned for two weeks. [/quote]
You can't ban me... I QUIT!

Pics show that Orcrist's grip is definitely a tooth...

Oh no, that is definitely a Dragon's tooth... Look at the pommel. See how the "tooth" pokes through the metal? Ugh, why? WHYYYYYYYYYYY!?!?!?!?

It is a really cool idea, but why on Orcrist?


Also, I am really worried about UC replicating it. I have a bad feeling that we are going to get plastic for the handle.

[quote=""RevAnakin""]Oh no, that is definitely a Dragon's tooth... Look at the pommel. See how the "tooth" pokes through the metal? Ugh, why? WHYYYYYYYYYYY!?!?!?!?

It is a really cool idea, but why on Orcrist?


Also, I am really worried about UC replicating it. I have a bad feeling that we are going to get plastic for the handle.[/quote]

The tooth idea I'm not too keen on, but still I like the sword. At first I thought that was another piece of metal on the pommel but the photos say differently. They could do it in wood, I'd prefer wood to resin/plastic.

Kit will probably be able to discuss this better (if he knows why they used a dragon tooth that is) with us in October. It's still interesting, but I wanna know where the design ideas have come from. Everything in the LOTR films was carefuly carried out and thought through properly. it would be interesting to discuss the tooth at the weta booth in comic con, I dunno if they'd be allowed to discuss it but we could try and get someone to bring up the topic for us.

Maybe its the "Tooth of Sauron"... maybe Isildur knocked Sauron's tooth out when he cut his finger off

***Ducks from oncoming things thrown at him from Val***

[quote=""BladeCollector""]Maybe its the "Tooth of Sauron"... maybe Isildur knocked Sauron's tooth out when he cut his finger off [/quote]

Despite the fact that Isildur was born thousands of years after Orcrist was forged? Honestly, I'd prefer the dragon's tooth to your theory, and yes, I know you're joking.

You know, it just occurred to me that since they don't have the rights to draw any material from the Silmarillion, they can't really give Orcrist a proper history per se because they can't reference the facts in that book, only the tiny morsel of info that is in The Hobbit. Still, this is no reason to make something up that is completely inconsistent with ME history just because you want to imbue the sword with "coolness."

By the way, I think EG has been hypnotized or something. There's a guy following him around with a mop and bucket for the drool he leaves behind every time a new pic of Orcrist is posted.

[quote=""Valkrist""]

By the way, I think EG has been hypnotized or something. There's a guy following him around with a mop and bucket for the drool he leaves behind every time a new pic of Orcrist is posted. [/quote]

[quote=""Valkrist""]Oh, and BC... for that rant, you're getting banned for two weeks. [/quote]

Tyrant! Fight the oppressor!

[quote=""BladeCollector""]Maybe its the "Tooth of Sauron"... maybe Isildur knocked Sauron's tooth out when he cut his finger off

***Ducks from oncoming things thrown at him from Val***[/quote]

Bahahahahahahahha. Yes please. That would be so unbelieveably awful.


Well, I'm in tatters. I don't know what to think. First off, are those axes replicas by Weta gonna be like super e xp ensive? Am I gonna have to collect props from two companies? Gah!

Second...anyone have some red or green leather I can discreetly wrap around my orcist handle? Don't worry, I can take care of the tip with some sandpaper. Lol. Seriously, I love the sword, but the idea of it in my mind being a tooth (because that definitely is a tooth) is just ***-ugly. I always imagined a handle like Glamdring's under Thorin's hand. That sword looks more like something Ted Nugent would carry around to the Republican convention, alongside his AK-47 and his UZI.