I'm sure I mentioned this somewhere around here before, but when ROTK was first released in theatres here, a local cineplex did an all-day marathon showing the first two movies in EE format, and ROTK TE, as the EE was still months away. So, though it was missing that extra footage on the last movie, it was still the biggest butt-numbing e xp erience I've ever been through, and I've flown from North America to Australia so I know all about uber-long flights.

What makes this worse than trying it at home is that you are stuck in a theatre seat, which is barely ok for a 3-hour movie, but certainly not for the whole day. There is also no pause button for getting up to go to the bathroom or to fix yourself a snack. They did give us a half hour break in between each movie, but the whole e xp erience was pretty epic. We went in at 11:30 in the morning and walked out after the midnight the following day, dazed and bleary-eyed, but happy that we did it.

I've also done the complete EE marathon at home and managed to survive it without passing out.

[quote=""Olorin""]Let's see, we're at about 11.5 hours already just with LOTR. Add a pair of Hobbit EEs at, say, 7 hours total for the sake of a number, and we have 18.5 hours. That's probably more hours than most people are awake in a day! [/quote]

I'd do it! I've done the LotR EE a few times!

[quote=""Fingolfin""]I'd do it! I've done the LotR EE a few times![/quote]
Me too, I just wish I could move into the screen and become a permanent resident.
Spending the rest of my natural life in Middle Earth would be fine with me,
as long as I get no word about "Occupy Minus Tirith"

[quote=""Thranduil""]Me too, I just wish I could move into the screen and become a permanent resident.
Spending the rest of my natural life in Middle Earth would be fine with me,
as long as I get no word about "Occupy Minus Tirith" [/quote]

Let 'em "occupy Mordor". From what I've seen Orcs behave better.

No kidding.

Not to stray off-topic too much or even turn this into a political debate, but we just got word here in Vancouver that our occupy movement cost us hard-working ta xp ayers over a million dollars. So, job well done, ocupy folks, in succesfully diverting all that money from funding for the very social programs they were protesting about.

The stench of irony lays heavily over this whole thing.

[quote=""Valkrist""]The stench of irony lays heavily over this whole thing. [/quote]
A quote to be noted, so very very true

Well, like so much else in the world, they mean well....but these things only work well in theory, I'm afraid.

[quote=""Valkrist""]No kidding.

Not to stray off-topic too much or even turn this into a political debate, but we just got word here in Vancouver that our occupy movement cost us hard-working ta xp ayers over a million dollars. So, job well done, ocupy folks, in succesfully diverting all that money from funding for the very social programs they were protesting about.

The stench of irony lays heavily over this whole thing. [/quote]

On the side, I'll be visiting your city in February. The wife and I are getting a special access to the EMP Sci-Fi Museum in Seattle for the BSG exhibit, and then we're spending a few days going to some of the show's filming locations (Boundary Bay, Chan Center, Simon Fraiser Campus, Capilano Park and the Orpheum Theatre).

I know it will be butt cold, but as a Floridian who just spent Xmas at 81 degrees, I'm looking forward to it.

Cheers,

Guy

Presented w/o comment:

http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2012/01 ... oor-prose/

I have a comment: epic fail.

[quote=""Valkrist""]I have a comment: epic fail.[/quote]

'Nuff said, ladies and gents.

P.S. - Fin, my edit of your post was simply to correct a spelling error from my own quote. I must've been half asleep when I posted.

Like most critics of today, at the time of it's publishing, LotR's was down played.
I'm of the opinion that most people who become critics, do so because they themselves are losers who have nothing going for them. Better to sit around pointing the finger at anyone, and anything, trying to make yourself look like a somebody.

It's a great way to hide a ridiculously low self-esteem problem.

Think about it. They make a life of criticism, they accomplish little else. How many film critics ever made a film? I wouldn't consider a sword critic to be an authority on the subject, Peter Lyon is who I'd turn to for such authority on the topic.

The saying, "Those who can do, and those who can't teach," is very unfair. I had some great teachers, and I'm glad they chose to teach. And it's obvious to me that the members here who are teachers are very passionate about their profession, and very good at it because of their passion, but I'd say the phrase definitely applies to critics;
"Those who can do, and those who can't criticize those who do."

[quote=""Valkrist""]P.S. - Fin, my edit of your post was simply to correct a spelling error from my own quote. I must've been half asleep when I posted. [/quote]

Haha, it happens to the best of us.



And a very valid point, Thrand.

Any news from UC or WETA guy's ????

About the swords i mean.

I think you're asking this in the wrong thread, Dark Shadow... this thread is for the discussion of Tolkien's books and Middle-earth, not collectibles from UC or Weta.

In fact, all the recent talk about watching the movies as a marathon should have been in the blu-ray thread but I guess we let it slide.

Nicolas Cage claims he was almost in LOTR:

http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2012/02 ... t-in-lotr/

I wonder how many other actors will eventually come out of the woodwork to undermine PJ's claim that he got his first choice for every part except Aragorn?

[quote=""Olorin""]Nicolas Cage claims he was almost in LOTR:

http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2012/02 ... t-in-lotr/ ....[/quote]

I'm sure Cage was offered a part....He was asked to play that one orc.
You know, the one at Helms Deep that was sort of to the left, about 8 rows back, when they were all standing in the rain.

I know it was kind of dark, and maybe a little difficult to see that one Uruk hai, but I'm certain that part was originally tailor made for him.
It's a shame he had to turn it down. It was an Oscar caliber role.

[quote=""Valkrist""]I think you're asking this in the wrong thread, Dark Shadow... this thread is for the discussion of Tolkien's books and Middle-earth, not collectibles from UC or Weta.

In fact, all the recent talk about watching the movies as a marathon should have been in the blu-ray thread but I guess we let it slide. [/quote]

Oeps what a mistake on my part,i Apology Val.

So a while back Darlak mentioned how Norway makes for a good Middle Earth like New Zealand does.
He's right
http://twistedsifter.com/2011/04/pictur ... rk-norway/

Anyone picture Edoras on that hill to the left?

Here's a little tidbit I just came across. Kinda cool.
http://www.grindtv.com/outdoor/blog/334 ... avigation/

Makes sure you read the article if you wonder why.

[quote=""Thranduil""]Here's a little tidbit I just came across. Kinda cool.
http://www.grindtv.com/outdoor/blog/334 ... avigation/

Makes sure you read the article if you wonder why.[/quote]

Very cool, indeed.... ( but also very warm )

[quote=""Deimos""]Very cool, indeed.... ( but also very warm )[/quote]
Yeah, tanning sessions would last 15 minutes per day and I'd look like dark Walnut within the first month on that voyage.

[quote=""Olorin""]Peter Jackson has been knighted as a member of the New Zealand Order of Merit, from http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/31 ... ar-honours[/quote]

Well, PJ's level of honor has been upped—the Queen named him to New Zealand's highest honor:

http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2012/06 ... op-honour/

Chris Tolkien finally did an interview after 40 years. Not much dialog, but surely a lot of information why "The Estate" hates the movies:

http://sedulia.blogs.com/sedulias_trans ... -felt.html


It was funny, a few months back I was listening to an interview of Chris' grandchild. Pretty much Chris refuses to talk a certain part of the family because they support the movies. All in all, I understand protecting something that is very close to your heart, but unfortunately by never handling anything himself and only using lawyers as the Estate's diplomats, Chris is simply making the Rift worse. Rather than meeting P.J. originally 10 years ago and at least trying to put his opinions in, he just stuck his nose up. In the end, the silence is just going to "make the movies worse" because with someone on the set, there is always the fighting chance of someone saying, "Stop! Gimli wouldn't curse in his own tongue!"

[quote=""RevAnakin""]Chris Tolkien finally did an interview after 40 years. Not much dialog, but surely a lot of information why "The Estate" hates the movies:

http://sedulia.blogs.com/sedulias_trans ... -felt.html
[/quote]

Gotta love an article written in a foreign language and then translated into English. Oh well, I've seen worse.

In any case, it seems to answer a long-standing question: did CJRT ever see the movies? It would seem he did. On the other hand, he could just be basing his comments on what others have told him of the movies. It's not really clear.

In any event, if he really did see the movies and that is his honest reaction, I am a little bit saddened that he seemingly did not find anything to like about them. The movies have much to recommend them. They certainly captured the grandeur and beauty of Middle-earth, and the relationships between the characters. In other ways, of course, he's right—the movies did turn the story into an action-adventure flick. However, that was bound to happen. I cannot imagine a studio spending the money it would take to realize these movies and be content with them being an art movie. Anyway, I suppose it's much easier for us to overlook such things...it wasn't our dad that wrote the books.

Am I the only one who thinks CT is kind of being a snob about the movies? Yes, he is very right to take the stories and their treatment to heart, but doesn't he realize how many true fans of his father and the literature would never have cracked a cover of a Tolkien novel had it not been for those movies? I'm in that boat, and I owe so much to those movies. I guess he's just too stuck in his ways. Either way, I suppose we owe him a serious debt for publishing The Sil, UT, and HoME.

[quote=""Fingolfin""]Am I the only one who thinks CT is kind of being a snob about the movies?[/quote]

I completely agree.

He doesn't have to even like the movies. People always say, "Don't complain about the government if you don't vote!"

I feel the same way. 10 years ago, P.J. invited him to New Zealand to discuss the plot of his adapted story. He refused and continued to refuse. I feel like he has no right to complain about the movies in that sense.

Now, when it comes to companies trying to rob the Estate of rightful royalties, be pissed off.

Perhaps in some way, it bugs him that the films are responsible for creating so much interest? Who knows with Christopher? All I know is, if it had not been for that trilogy, I would still to this day have never read LOTR...or The Hobbit...or The Silmarillion...or the 12-volume History of ME...or The Children of Hurin.

[quote=""MorgulMike""]Perhaps in some way, it bugs him that the films are responsible for creating so much interest? Who knows with Christopher? All I know is, if it had not been for that trilogy, I would still to this day have never read LOTR...or The Hobbit...or The Silmarillion...or the 12-volume History of ME...or The Children of Hurin.[/quote]

Although we are lucky he has much of his father's scholasticism, we are not lucky with his attitude about it. Reading that article made it clear to me.

His father practically raised him on these stories. This was his bed time story. He helped J.R.R. draw the maps, and proof read the work while in the military.

It made me understand that Chris is simply being spoiled about it. He literally wants "it all for himself," like a little kid. He doesn't want to share beyond what he thinks is scholars and "smart people." It seems like he only wants people to love it but not enjoy it.

Like I just mentioned in the Orcrist thread.. I had never ever ever even heard of LOTR before the movies came out and actually didn't even see FOTR until about a month or so before TTT came out.

If it wouldnt have been for those dang movies, I wouldnt have thousands of dollars of LOTR related swords and other items hanging on my walls and sitting on shelves. Nor would I have bought the TE on VHS(!) and DVD, EE on DVD, TE on BD AND EE on BD!! This movie has cost me a small fortune!!!

Exactly! I am in the same boat. I actually saw like 10 minutes of Fellowship when it came to like Cinemax on cable. I think that was right before RoTK came out. I immediately was hooked and rented it the next day to watch it. The rest is history...

And now I am trying to collect every single version of the books that I can, which directly feeds to the Estate, so Chris has no reason to complain on my account.

In all fairness to everyone's opinions, I think you guys are being a bit too hard on CJRT. What position would you e xp ect him to take? Bear in mind that he is a retired professor, from Oxford no less, so he is a very learned academic and that's the filter through which he is going to see the world. If you want to go after someone for being a snob, you should go after the critics who thought the books were tripe.

Also, there is no other living person on this planet who knows and understands LOTR like CJRT does. He was there when it was written. He served as a sounding board for his father. He drew the maps. Decades later, he wrote a 4-volume study of its evolution from simple sequel to the opus it became. In some ways, he probably knows LOTR better than his father did!

In short, he is uniquely qualified to have an opinion on the subject. While it's a bit sad that he is shortchanging PJ's accomplishment and seemingly finds nothing to admire in the movies, I don't fault him for feeling that way. Given the circumstances, it was probably inescapable.

I don't believe he's required to feel gratitude for the extra money the movie trilogy has made for the Estate. I am sure the Estate does quite well and would have continued to do so without the movies. Plus, most of the money goes to charities. As for any percentage going directly to CJRT, what does he need of it? He has his private little estate, and at 87, it's not like he needs to be worrying where the next few million dollars are going to come from. (Or as my aunt Eileen says, shrouds don't have pockets.) Yet at the same time, when the Estate sued New Line for its share of the profits, other than the possibly delaying effect on any Hobbit movie, I said, "Go Estate!" because I loathe the way Hollywood studios try to screw people out of the money they are owed under contract.

In terms of his opportunity to have some sort of involvement in the movies, he flatly avoided that because he was concerned that his involvement would be misconstrued as the Estate's endorsement of the movies. He felt his role should be strictly limited to the conservator and protector of his father's literary estate and that it should remain a separate and distinct entity from the movies.

Lastly, CJRT is an old man, and old people generally don't deal well with change. The tidal wave created by the movies must have turned his world topsy-turvy.

In short, while I think it's a little sad, I am neither surprised nor bothered by his dismissal of the movies. I think the rest of us can all agree that the books and the movies can exist side by side in parallel universes, and we can enjoy them both.

[quote=""Olorin""]In all fairness to everyone's opinions, I think you guys are being a bit too hard on CJRT. ...In short, he is uniquely qualified to have an opinion on the subject. While it's a bit sad that he is shortchanging PJ's accomplishment and seemingly finds nothing to admire in the movies, I don't fault him for feeling that way. Given the circumstances, it was probably inescapable.

... He felt his role should be strictly limited to the conservator and protector of his father's literary estate and that it should remain a separate and distinct entity from the movies.

Lastly, CJRT is an old man, and old people generally don't deal well with change. The tidal wave created by the movies must have turned his world topsy-turvy.

In short, while I think it's a little sad, I am neither surprised nor bothered by his dismissal of the movies. I think the rest of us can all agree that the books and the movies can exist side by side in parallel universes, and we can enjoy them both.[/quote]

Olorin, that is by far the most thoughtful and even-handed assessment of the whole situation, which I happen to agree with as well.

There are dozens of books that have made the transition to screen, many very well done, but most abominable abortions. And for good or ill something is always "lost in translation". The LOTR is no exception.

CJRT lamented (criticized?) the loss of the his father 's philosophy in the screen version, and i know what he means. JRRT's philosophy (world view, if you will) inspires the stories and makes for an enriching e xp erience for the reader.

It is a loss for the movie-goer especially if he is never prompted thereby to read the books.

And so hats off to Blade Collector and Morgul Mike (and countless others I'm sure) who were drawn to a much greater e xp erience of ME and appreciation of JRRT by reading the books.

At the end of the day, J.R.R. may have been a language genius but he obviously wasn't in the knowledge of having a stipulation about percentage of license sales.

Book sales went up 1000% after the movies period. The only way that can go down is if people return the books, which most didn't. What people do with the books be it read them, burn them, use them as toilet paper, or cherish them for all of eternity does not affect the fact that sales went up 1000%.

Look at it like this, you go into work Monday morning and there is this new guy assigned to your task team. He then tells you that he is going through a really bad divorce and he just wants to bury himself in work, all of it. Then he does all the work you would normally have to do so fast that you got a new project with more commission. Do you have any reason to complain that he is going through a divorce? No.

The only reason why you could be mad is if he took credit for your work and your pay got docked, which is why I am totally for the Estate suing.

Same thing for the books vs. movies. Without the movies, the book sales would have stayed consistent or declined. The school board of a Texas, United States county publicly stated that they are "taking critical thinking out of the curriculum." My older cousins were required to read the Hobbit in middle school and Lord of the Rings in high school in their English classes. It never was required to read, nor had I ever even heard about Tolkien before the first movies. Sales at that point could only decline.

Same thing with the merchandise. I think it is ABSOLUTELY WRONG that these big companies are trying to get away with not giving the Tolkien Estate the cut they deserve, but again, if a student buys a Lord of the Rings backpack and it intrigues just one other student to read the books, then who cares?

At the end of the day the Tolkien Estate was screwed over by the contract J.R.R. signed with the rights to films. Unfortunately, he did not have the business sense to make the contract very exclusive to just the movies and not merchandise. Unfortunately, many companies are greedy. Unfortunately, P.J. and crew changed some things that people may not like, even though most of the changes were necessary for film adaptation.

Fortunately, the movies increased public awareness and interest in the books. It is evident in the 1000% increase in sales. Fortunately, there are people that love the movies and the books as two separate but beautiful masterpieces in their own sense. Fortunately, the movies didn't put a gun up to the book lovers heads and told them, "Watch me or die."

The movies out and every time they play on network TV with all the commercials, it might spike interest in an individual with a passion for good literature who just never heard about the books because our modern day literature is mostly crap and that is all they know. Maybe that individual will love it so much he/she will go to Oxford and become a Tolkien scholar, win the lottery, and buy the brand once Chris dies. Who knows? I just don't see why people have a problem with something that isn't forced upon them.

My problem with Chris and his family issues is that of course he doesn't talk about it. He knows it will make him look bad. I respect people that have the strength to disown a family member for abuse, violence, drugs, ect; but to do so because of a liking of a piece of art work? Sounds like Nazi fascism to me.

And like I mentioned before. I saw the first movie became entrenched in the lore of it all and immediately read the books before I saw RotK. I think there is nothing snobbish about being an English professor, my wife works at a college in the English department. It has nothing to do with word choice, but with absolute disdain that I see with Chris. And yes, he is old, but so are my grandparents and they accepted my veganism after I e xp lained it (food is really important to them). Chris just never wanted to get it "e xp lained" to him

I have immense respect for the man and his accomplishments. He just seems to look down on most of his fans and pride is always the downfall of the Greek Hero, so he should watch out, he has already lost half his family.

[quote=""RevAnakin""]My problem with Chris and his family issues is that of course he doesn't talk about it. He knows it will make him look bad. I respect people that have the strength to disown a family member for abuse, violence, drugs, ect; but to do so because of a liking of a piece of art work? Sounds like Nazi fascism to me. [/quote]

Oh, the infamous estrangement; I forgot about that. Chris claims it didn't happen. I don't know the full story of it, so to me it comes down to one person's version of the story against another.

[quote=""RevAnakin""]And yes, he is old, but so are my grandparents and they accepted my veganism after I e xp lained it (food is really important to them). Chris just never wanted to get it "e xp lained" to him[/quote]

Another vegan! I did not know that! I've been vegan for 11 years.

[quote=""Olorin""]Oh, the infamous estrangement; I forgot about that. Chris claims it didn't happen. I don't know the full story of it, so to me it comes down to one person's version of the story against another.[/quote]

Yeah, just food for thought though. Who knows he could have cut them off because they were money hungry, I don't know, but I just didn't e xp ect it to occur over two generations.


[quote=""Olorin""]Another vegan! I did not know that! I've been vegan for 11 years.[/quote]

PMed you about it so we can keep the boards clean.

[quote=""Olorin""]


Another vegan! I did not know that! I've been vegan for 11 years.[/quote]


I've been vegan for the past couple of hours

[quote=""BladeCollector""]I've been vegan for the past couple of hours [/quote]

Just keep telling yourself, "a couple more hours" and before you know it you lose weight and be vegan for life!

I think this thread is in need of a serious exorcism.

[quote=""RevAnakin""]Just keep telling yourself, "a couple more hours" and before you know it you lose weight and be vegan for life! [/quote]

Actually Rev, over the last couple of years I have lost over 53 lbs (and over 75 lbs from my biggest about 7 years ago) not from a vegan lifestyle, but from a all around healthier and exercise lifestyle. In fact, I know quite a few people that are/were vegans that are grossly overweight... just because you aren't eating animals/animal products doesnt mean you can't eat french fries and onion rings all day long! I'm not meaning to disrespect anyone's lifestyle, in fact I appreciate everyone's differences. I once had a cookout and had burgers, etc and had some vegan friends come over and I made them from scratch, black bean burgers. But being mindful, I cooked theirs in the oven as not to get any meat residue on their food. I know and am friends with vegans, vegetarians, pescetarians, paleos, etc etc.

But this is diverging from Middle Earth so we should get back to regularly scheduled programming and continue this discussion elsewhere.

[quote=""BladeCollector""]I've been vegan for the past couple of hours [/quote]

I haven't. I support the milking of cows, even though it's horribly wrong.


Sorry I'm just antagonizing you guys, lol. My friend is vegetarian, it's a habit.


But anyways, middle-earth. I can see both Olorin's view and Rev's. I think the only thing excusable for me is that CT is an old man: stuck in his ways. Too late at this point to change his mind, I guess. I'm not really angry with the man, it's just a shame that he doesn't give PJ a chance.

[quote=""BladeCollector""]Actually Rev, over the last couple of years I have lost over 53 lbs (and over 75 lbs from my biggest about 7 years ago) not from a vegan lifestyle, but from a all around healthier and exercise lifestyle. In fact, I know quite a few people that are/were vegans that are grossly overweight... just because you aren't eating animals/animal products doesnt mean you can't eat french fries and onion rings all day long! I'm not meaning to disrespect anyone's lifestyle, in fact I appreciate everyone's differences. I once had a cookout and had burgers, etc and had some vegan friends come over and I made them from scratch, black bean burgers. But being mindful, I cooked theirs in the oven as not to get any meat residue on their food. [/quote]

Congrats on your weight lost!

My wife and I did it for health, not specifically for the animals. Yeah, I can't stand "junk food vegans" who just eat junk, but don't realize that they aren't doing anyone, anything, or themselves any good.

That was really kind and thoughtful for you to make them in the oven. So many people don't understand that they can't even be cooked on the same surface.

This is unfortunate: the museum that PJ was planning for a permanent exhibit of all the LOTR props has gone down in flames, apparently due to the machinations of those darned greedy lawyers.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/fi ... as-ditched

I guess it's not like I was every likely to make it to NZ to see it anyway, but still....

Who knows, there still might be hope after Jackson rakes in some money from the three movies and hopefully those other scam artists go the jail. It seems to me that Jackson realized those prices were ridiculous and fraudulent so he stepped back for the time being.

I agree. I think PJ is astute enough to realize that this lawyer was trying to take advantage of his huge wealth and overcharge for her services. And he was graceful enough just to back away.

So I'll tell the joke again for the sake of this.

Doctor, lawyer, & physicist playing golf engage in a conversation about the very first profession to come into being.
The doctor speaks first and said that God created the woman from the man and that was a surgical operation.
The physicists says, "Yes, but that was after the creation. It says God brought everything into being out of chaos."
So the lawyer says, "And where do you think the chaos came from?"

I don't know if I'd heard that one before, but it was pretty good!

Speculation about a Middle-earth theme park: http://behindthethrills.com/2013/01/rum ... eme-parks/

Nobody will be more surprised than me if this happens.

Note also there's a cryptic reference to a possible series of Silmarillion movies. Now there's something that REALLY isn't happening, at least as long as Christopher Tolkien has anything to say about it.

If it happens, I will definitely be there!