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I suppose it just goes to show, people who do websites can be hoodwinked just like the rest of us. The Star Trek website had a bunch of fake news stories, including one about a new Star Trek novel chronicling the adventures of Captain Sulu with the androgynous Metrons and an impetuous young officer under his command. If I hadn't already been clued in by the PJ Powerpuff joke, the notion that there was going to be a homoerotic Star Trek novel would probably have made me remember it was April Fools' Day.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

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When they finally do release The Hobbit movie, does anyone speculate that the MC Sting sword will jump in value? The UC mass production Sting? From my remembrance of the book (which I read many many moons ago) the Sting was the primary blade in it.

Also what other swords/weapons were dominant in the book and who carried them?
LOTR: MC Glamdring (379 out of 3000); MC Sting (666 out of 3000) & UC Sting Scabbard ; Witchking Helm (387 out of 3000) ; UC Elven Knife of Strider ; UC Anduril UE (need scabbard) ; UC Gimli Battle and Walking Axes ; UC Staff of Saruman ; UC Ringwraiths sword mini ; UC Sting Sword Mini ; UC Gauntlet of Sauron (2896 out of 3000) ; UC Legolas scabbard & Legolas fighting knives ; UC RingWraith Sword ; UC Staff of Gandolf ; UC Glamdring Scabbards (Blue & White) ; UC Herugrim ; UC Urik-Hai Scimitar Kit Rae: Mithrodin Sword Damascus Limited number 52 Edition of 100 pieces; Anathar ; Morthoseth ; Luciendar ; Valdris SE ; Archeros www.WitchKing.net

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The only other two blades that appear prominantly in the film is Glamdring, which you already know and Orcrist, which is carried by Thorin and buried with him.

Others can tell you more about the blades... but that is a general idea. I do know that it stands for Goblin Cleaver though! :)
Valar morghulis

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Aside from the swords mentioned by Thorin, there are no other weapons of note named or described in the book. Of course, this isn't to say that a movie version can't change that. Take The Lord of the Rings movie trilogy for example: many of the weapons seen in the movie and later sold by UC were never described at length by Tolkien in the books, and many were created solely for the movies. I would cite Aragorn's Ranger Sword, Arwen's Hadhfang, and Legolas' Knives as examples of blades that were prominent in the movies yet non-existent in the books. So, as the marketing and licensing machine must make its money, I would e xp ect no less than a whole slew of new weapons to appear in the movie and later be sold to you and I. Some likely candidates would be Bard's bow, Beorn's axe (if the latter appears in the movie,) and the Elven King's sword. The axes of the dwarven company are also possibilities, though Gimli's two axes did not sell well in the current lineup. Note that Gimli's Battle Axe once belonged to Balin, who was part of Thorin's original company, so that's another weapon that should appear both in LOTR and the Hobbit.

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Thorin wrote:The only other two blades that appear prominantly in the film is Glamdring, which you already know and Orcrist...
That would be phenomenal to see another 1000 second edition Museum Collection of Gandalf’s Glamdring, since I was never able to get one at a price that wouldn’t force me to sell my house for. I am sure It will be a cold night in hell when the re-smith that sword.
LOTR: MC Glamdring (379 out of 3000); MC Sting (666 out of 3000) & UC Sting Scabbard ; Witchking Helm (387 out of 3000) ; UC Elven Knife of Strider ; UC Anduril UE (need scabbard) ; UC Gimli Battle and Walking Axes ; UC Staff of Saruman ; UC Ringwraiths sword mini ; UC Sting Sword Mini ; UC Gauntlet of Sauron (2896 out of 3000) ; UC Legolas scabbard & Legolas fighting knives ; UC RingWraith Sword ; UC Staff of Gandolf ; UC Glamdring Scabbards (Blue & White) ; UC Herugrim ; UC Urik-Hai Scimitar Kit Rae: Mithrodin Sword Damascus Limited number 52 Edition of 100 pieces; Anathar ; Morthoseth ; Luciendar ; Valdris SE ; Archeros www.WitchKing.net

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Valkrist wrote:...many of the weapons seen in the movie and later sold by UC were never described at length by Tolkien in the books, and many were created solely for the movies. I would cite Aragorn's Ranger Sword, Arwen's Hadhfang, and Legolas' Knives as examples of blades that were prominent in the movies yet non-existent in the books...
That is interesting I didn’t realize that or remember that from the books.

I hope whoever obtains the license makes them with the same quality standard that UC did. Wishfully speaking I would like to see some Museum Collection versions that are “battle ready” of the potential line up. The idea of the swords being capable of combat appeals to me; you never know when demonic orcs may sprout up in your backyard – and what better weapon to hack them up with.
LOTR: MC Glamdring (379 out of 3000); MC Sting (666 out of 3000) & UC Sting Scabbard ; Witchking Helm (387 out of 3000) ; UC Elven Knife of Strider ; UC Anduril UE (need scabbard) ; UC Gimli Battle and Walking Axes ; UC Staff of Saruman ; UC Ringwraiths sword mini ; UC Sting Sword Mini ; UC Gauntlet of Sauron (2896 out of 3000) ; UC Legolas scabbard & Legolas fighting knives ; UC RingWraith Sword ; UC Staff of Gandolf ; UC Glamdring Scabbards (Blue & White) ; UC Herugrim ; UC Urik-Hai Scimitar Kit Rae: Mithrodin Sword Damascus Limited number 52 Edition of 100 pieces; Anathar ; Morthoseth ; Luciendar ; Valdris SE ; Archeros www.WitchKing.net

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Sam Raimi made the following comment about "The Hobbit" in an upcoming Entertainment Weekly interview "First and foremost, those are Peter Jackson and Bob Shaye's films. If Peter didn't want to do it, and Bob wanted me to do it — and they were both okay with me picking up the reins — that would be great. I love the book. It's maybe a more kid-friendly story than the others." Source: www.rottentomatoes.com

Considering that Jackson and Shaye can't agree on anything now a days, I wouldn't be holding my breath about Raimi getting the go ahead from the two men. I suspect we will have to wait till New Line loses the rights to The Hobbit before the movie will be done.
10 months and counting till the release of The Hobbit.

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Yeah, I saw that. It's funny how some news sources tried to spin it to say that Raimi was eager to do the Hobbit. What I got out of it is that he'd love to do it, but he doesn't want to step on PJ's toes.

My personal favorite scenario is that Time-Warner would fire Bob Shaye and the Hobbit could proceed with PJ.

My second-favorite scenario is that Bob Shaye comes to his senses and settles things with PJ, and then the Hobbit could proceed with PJ.

My third-favorite scenario is that the Hobbit remains stalled until New Line's option runs out and the Hobbit is made solely by MGM with PJ in the director's chair. This scenario causes us to have to wait a lot longer to see the movie, and possibly miss out on having Ian McKellen in it, but it would have the compensation of New Line losing out completely as a result of their greed in trying to screw PJ out of his profits from LOTR.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

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It is doubting that New Line will let go of such a potential cash phenomena as the Hobbit, as greed fills their blood.
I found this sarcastic statement by Shaye on Wiki “Rumors about Sam Raimi (of Evil Dead and Spider-Man fame) directing The Hobbit are still in negotiations, and Raimi has said that he would love to do the movie if he had Jackson's approval. Robert Shaye isn't sure who will direct The Hobbit, but he says if his company (New Line Cinema) makes it, then they will hire a "well known director who is talented".”
LOTR: MC Glamdring (379 out of 3000); MC Sting (666 out of 3000) & UC Sting Scabbard ; Witchking Helm (387 out of 3000) ; UC Elven Knife of Strider ; UC Anduril UE (need scabbard) ; UC Gimli Battle and Walking Axes ; UC Staff of Saruman ; UC Ringwraiths sword mini ; UC Sting Sword Mini ; UC Gauntlet of Sauron (2896 out of 3000) ; UC Legolas scabbard & Legolas fighting knives ; UC RingWraith Sword ; UC Staff of Gandolf ; UC Glamdring Scabbards (Blue & White) ; UC Herugrim ; UC Urik-Hai Scimitar Kit Rae: Mithrodin Sword Damascus Limited number 52 Edition of 100 pieces; Anathar ; Morthoseth ; Luciendar ; Valdris SE ; Archeros www.WitchKing.net

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I doubt scenario one for Olorin will ever come to pass since I'm sure on some level Bob Shaye is partly credited with the helping engineer and put forward the machine that eventually gave us the Lord of the Rings movie trilogy. Whatever else might be said about New Line, they did give Jackson the tools and the money to do what many fans feared was impossible. The problems came afterward when greed and egos ran rampant. So, on that word, Time-Warner would have little reason to fire Shaye since he could be said to have brought in millions of dollars in revenue to the company from his business decisions with LOTR. More likely is that they will wait until Shaye's contract itself e xp ires and then see if they can renegotiate with Jackson.

Scenario two is very unlikely also because Shaye's mindset seems to be one of those 'over my dead-body' things, and I think he is too arrogant and proud to backpedal now and make peace with PJ.

Thus, the third scenario mentioned, which is actually my first choice, is that New Line will just be out of the picture (pun completely intended,) and PJ is given free rein by whomever to do the Hobbit his way.

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Valkrist wrote:I doubt scenario one for Olorin will ever come to pass since I'm sure on some level Bob Shaye is partly credited with the helping engineer and put forward the machine that eventually gave us the Lord of the Rings movie trilogy.
I tend to agree, except that loyalty in the corporate world is scarcer than hen's teeth. American business is done by the credo "But what have you done for me today?" In that light, and with Shaye's behavior stalling the project until such time as New Line's right to do it might e xp ire, Time Warner may well engineer a way to ease him out in some manner that saves face. Or they may just fire him. Or they may be blinded by greed and let his reign of terror continue.

Time will tell.... :crazy:
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

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Here is a fuller account of the Shaye/Jackson/Raimi news bit. I find the part about the Silmarillion a bit scary, to be honest. Seems like Tolkien material has now become a cash cow bandwagon, and while I welcome an opportunity to see his wonderful creation come to life on the screen, I shudder at this material falling into the wrong hands, and the Silmarillion is far from the Hobbit or even LOTR, and these people need to understand that. I think this epic tale would be a colossal failure as a movie, even a trilogy. The scope of the story is simply too broad and grandiose, and the cross-generational scope of the events would leave the casual moviegoer completely confused and turned off. The Silmarillion is ripe for a week-long, two-hour (without commercials,) mini-series format; nothing more, nothing less.

Image
J.R.R. Tolkien has been back in the news this week, and not only for the just released "The Children of Hurin" novel which his son Christopher Tolkien carefully created out of his dad's notes and manuscripts.

HarperCollins Director David Brawn insinuates that Hollywood studios are already after the book's rights - "No one's saying never to a film (but) the film rights are reserved by the estate. We want to see what reaction it gets and then let it run its course." he told Reuters.

Meanwhile word on another Tolkien-related project emerged over at Entertainment Weekly on Monday. Talking to the magazine about his upcoming "Spider-Man 3," director Sam Raimi was asked about his rumoured involvement in the film adaptation of "The Hobbit".

Since the very public feud and split between "Lord of the Rings" director Peter Jackson and New Line head honcho Bob Shaye, Raimi's name became linked as Shaye's favourite to replace the Kiwi helmer. Raimi hasn't gone on the record about the issue until now and he said the following:

"Peter Jackson might be the best filmmaker on the planet right now. But, um, I don't know what's going to happen next for me right now. First and foremost, those are Peter Jackson and Bob Shaye's films. If Peter didn't want to do it, and Bob wanted me to do it -- and they were both okay with me picking up the reins -- that would be great. I love the book. It's maybe a more kid-friendly story than the others."

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While CJRT is alive, there will be no film adaptations of the Sil or any of its constituent parts, like "Children." Once he's dead, all bets are off, but whoever is in charge of the estate then is likely to share his views, as he has undoubtedly picked his successor.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

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Valkrist wrote:...Thus, the third scenario mentioned, which is actually my first choice, is that New Line will just be out of the picture (pun completely intended,) and PJ is given free rein by whomever to do the Hobbit his way.

I completely agree and hopefully for LOTR fanatics PJ will get to finish his legacy with the Hobbit. Every true fan was an adaptation of the Hobbit with the same genuine tone that PJ and cast brought to the LOTR trilogy. There is not telling what route another director may take with the hobbit.

Potential director Raimi admitted that the Hobbit is a more “kid-friendly story than the others”. I certainly don’t want a fluffy kiddy version of this movie. The book itself may not be as dark and brooding as LOTR, however, that doesn’t mean that it has to be rated G either.
LOTR: MC Glamdring (379 out of 3000); MC Sting (666 out of 3000) & UC Sting Scabbard ; Witchking Helm (387 out of 3000) ; UC Elven Knife of Strider ; UC Anduril UE (need scabbard) ; UC Gimli Battle and Walking Axes ; UC Staff of Saruman ; UC Ringwraiths sword mini ; UC Sting Sword Mini ; UC Gauntlet of Sauron (2896 out of 3000) ; UC Legolas scabbard & Legolas fighting knives ; UC RingWraith Sword ; UC Staff of Gandolf ; UC Glamdring Scabbards (Blue & White) ; UC Herugrim ; UC Urik-Hai Scimitar Kit Rae: Mithrodin Sword Damascus Limited number 52 Edition of 100 pieces; Anathar ; Morthoseth ; Luciendar ; Valdris SE ; Archeros www.WitchKing.net

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Deadlit wrote:Anyone know when they actually lose the rights to the The Hobbit?
This is from Wiki and establishes 2009 (assuming January 1st) as the date in which the movie has to be finished or at least in full production or the rights revert to “Saul Zaentz and The Saul Zaentz Company. The worldwide distribution rights do not have an e xp iration date and only allow for the film to be distributed, solely belonging to MGM, which is the only studio to this day that has ever owned them. In order for the film to be successfully distributed to the public, both types of rights have to belong to one studio or the respective owners have to agree on a joint production pact.”.

“The Hobbit is an announced … film that will likely be released in 2009 It will be based upon J. R. R. Tolkien's 1937 novel The Hobbit, which takes place several decades before the events of his later novel The Lord of the Rings, which was originally published in three volumes; thus the film is considered a prelude to New Line Cinema's The Lord of the Rings film trilogy, adaptations of the latter work. New Line has production rights until 2009, while MGM Studios retains the worldwide distribution rights.”
LOTR: MC Glamdring (379 out of 3000); MC Sting (666 out of 3000) & UC Sting Scabbard ; Witchking Helm (387 out of 3000) ; UC Elven Knife of Strider ; UC Anduril UE (need scabbard) ; UC Gimli Battle and Walking Axes ; UC Staff of Saruman ; UC Ringwraiths sword mini ; UC Sting Sword Mini ; UC Gauntlet of Sauron (2896 out of 3000) ; UC Legolas scabbard & Legolas fighting knives ; UC RingWraith Sword ; UC Staff of Gandolf ; UC Glamdring Scabbards (Blue & White) ; UC Herugrim ; UC Urik-Hai Scimitar Kit Rae: Mithrodin Sword Damascus Limited number 52 Edition of 100 pieces; Anathar ; Morthoseth ; Luciendar ; Valdris SE ; Archeros www.WitchKing.net

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With Spider-Man 3 about to be released and Sam Raimi doing the interview rounds to promote the movie, the inevitable quest for more information on his rumoured involvement in a possible Hobbit movie continues. Here is yet another attempt to uncover what exactly is going on. I, for one, am inclined to believe what Raimi says, and it seems clear that unless he is lying shamelessly through his teeth, that he has a great deal of respect for Peter Jackson and his work on Tolkien's world thus far. Judge for yourself:

Question: New Line has also rumored to approach you to do The Hobbit. Have they approached you to do The Hobbit? Was are the rumors, fact, fiction?

Raimi: Well, the truth is I just don't know what I'm going to do next, that's the most honest answer I can give you. And I can't honestly say, even though I have spoken to Bob Shay, that--I don't know that I could honestly say that anything's been offered to me until some time in the future, because, it just wouldn't be exactly right. Or true.


Question: When you say you've had conversations with Bob Shay, what kind of conversations have you had about The Hobbit?

Raimi: Well, I spoke to him once, so it's a little more overblown I think. That's why I don't want to pretend that it's bigger than it is. I had one conversation about the possibility of it, and that's really where it's at.

Question: I have a question though: in the back of your mind you have to be thinking, The Hobbit--Peter Jackson did such a great job with the trilogy. Is there any fear in your mind about wow, the fans are so attached to Peter Jackson's vision, how would they take me coming on to the project, and if you did go to the project, is there any thought about taking some of the actors or bringing--

Raimi: I haven't had any of those thoughts yet, because I think it's still Peter Jackson's project. It would be so premature--I'm so overwhelmed with my own insecurities, I can't take his on just yet.

Question: Still?

Raimi: Yeah. I have to burn through all my fears first. And then I'd have to know that he wasn't making the movie, and then it would have to officially be offered to me, and then all those, I will be the first one to take on all those fears if all of those things were to come to pass.

Question: So you wouldn't take it on unless Peter Jackson said it was okay?

Raimi: I'd have to know that he was okay with it. It's really his picture and Bob Shay's picture.

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Hmmm, that certainly appears genuine, so I hope it is. It's nice to see. I'm sure there's a lot of directors out there who would literally jump for the opportunity to get into bed with New Line on this, so it's good to see Raimi at least has standards of decency. I think one thing we can be fairly sure of is that if Raimi is officially offered this and accepts, it won't be a decision based soley on money. I think Spider-man should have given him the ability to choose which films to direct for the right reasons, rather than just how much he's getting paid at the end of the day. That might make the pill a bit easier to swallow if New Line do manage to get this project off the ground, but not much.

It's kind of funny though. Raimi recently acquired the rights to adapt Terry Goodkind's The Sword of Truth series into a mini-series, so I figured he'd be focusing on that after Spider-man 3. I guess having the rights to something doesn't always mean anything will come of it. Let's hope this is the case with New Line and The Hobbit. Then Saul & PJ can take this to any reasonable production company other than Universal (I don't want this to be a HD-DVD exclusive :P )

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This is from wired.com:
In the wake of Spidey 3's record breaking weekend, Sony Pictures plans to make more Spider-Man movies - - no surprise there. But Sam Raimi, who says he's "exhausted" after seven and a half straight years in the Spidey tunnel, has not yet committed to directing the next one. "The wheels aren't spinning," he told me a few days ago during a conversation about the making of Sandman.
http://www.wired.com/entertainment/holl ... /sam_raimi
"I've been so busy I haven't had time to think of anything else besides this movie. But as long as there's a director and writer with a fresh approach to the material who have a great passion to figure out the next step and recognize what Peter Parker has to learn, either logically, or intuitively, or emotionally, than I think there's many stories left to tell. Whether Sony choose me or not, whether I'm the right guy to tell it, I couldn't say."
What about bringing "The Hobbit?" to the big screen?


Given Peter Jackson's feud with New Line over the fate of a big screen "Hobbit," Raimi, a longtime J.R. R. Tolkien fan, seems a natural heir to the middle earth throne. "I love the book but that's all I can say honestly at this point," Raimi says. "I did speak to (New Line boss) Bob Shay once, but I'm not sure the rights are sorted out yet. It's still Peter Jackson's movie so it wouldn't be appropriate for me to say if I even had intentions. First, an offer would have to be made to me."
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

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So its still the same old, he doesn't want to step on PJ's toes. I respect him for taking this viewpoint and I am glad that he has not dismissed the idea entirely. I still stand by PJ, but I believe that Raimi is a good second place.

The biggest problem in my mind is continuity and it is the only thing that I would be looking for in the Hobbit, if Raimi were to direct it. Essentially... if you are going to film a series of similar films, they need to have some kind of constant.... ie. the sets, the actors, and all of the little bits that really make a film what it is. If Raimi comes along and changes... the look of Hobbiton for example, I would be very disappointed. They did this between the 2nd and 3rd Harry Potter films and let me tell you, I was very upset about that. These were not slight differences, they had changed a lot. Gandalf can only be played by McKellen and Elrond only by Weaving. Perhaps that is just me... but when you go and change something as simple as a sword and you completely change it... it just does not sit will with me.

:)
Valar morghulis

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I agree. While I don't think a director returning to helm a project is as important as say, a lead actor reprising his role (if he's a good one, mind you), there are just certain instances where if a different director took over the project, it just wouldn't sit well with a lot of people, and wouldn't feel right. PJ is the obvious example here, Ratner didn't win many fans with X-Men 3, and I'm beginning to feel Spider-man wouldn't be the same without Raimi.
I respect the work that Raimi does tremendously, but like you, I worry about what he would change to places like Hobbiton, or just the overall style of each race etc. Such an important world deserves to be kept the same, and so it deserves Peter Jackson's touch.

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I'm sure this will put New Line into a more conducive frame of mind to settle with PJ and get on with the Hobbit...NOT!

from Variety:
New Zealand actors sue New Line

'Rings' players question merchandising revenue

Fifteen Kiwi actors who appeared in various installments of "Lord of the Rings" got a lesson in Hollywood accounting when they opened royalty statements from New Line and found that despite millions of dollars in sales of lunchboxes, T-shirts, caps and other LOTR gimcrack, there was -- gasp! -- zero "net merchandising revenue."

The actors contacted attorney Henry Gradstein, who filed a lawsuit on Wednesday in Los Angeles Superior Court to recover money the actors figured they are owed under paragraph 11 of their contracts.
Based on the paragraph, the actors believed they would receive 5% of "net merchandising revenue" split among all actors whose characters are portrayed on the merchandise.


What the actors didn't realize is that gross merchandising revenue apparently became "net merchandising revenue" after certain une xp ected e xp enses were deducted.


The biggest of these was a 50% distribution fee that the actors had never seen mentioned anywhere in their contract, according to the lawsuit.
There were also other payments and fees that the actors felt were not "related to the generation of the relevant merchandising revenue."


After looking at all the fees that were being deducted from the gross revenues, the actors figured it would be impossible to ever have any "net merchandising revenue" no matter how much merchandise was sold.
Actors filing the lawsuit are: Noel Appleby, Jed Brophy, Mark Ferguson, Ray Henwood, Bruce Hopkins, William Johnson, Nathaniel Lees, Sarah McLeod, Ian Mune, Paul Norell, Craig Parker, Robert Pollock, Martyn Sanderson, Peter Tait and Stephan Ure.


A New Line rep said the company does not comment on pending litigation.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

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Thanks for that list, Ted. When I first read this story earlier in the day I was wondering if these folks were just extras at first glance. Good to see that they're actually legit characters. I'm curious as to the history of this suit. I'm just wondering why this is the first time it's been reported. Wonder if this has anything to do directly with the PJ issue.

EDIT: Ray Henwood is credited as "Man from Rivendell" on TheOneRing.net as far as any Orc characters go, I know that those actors played -several- roles in the movie. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the Mouth of Sauron was played by an actor who also filled the role of another named character (i.e. Sharku, though I don't think it was him...) so they may actually be owed even -more- money from New Line. Gotta love how New Line took perhaps the most successful film franchise ever and tainted it with shady practices.
Last edited by GuardianWolf on Fri Jun 01, 2007 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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I know Christopher Lee pitched a fit when they cut Saruman...

Thank you for clarifying.

Now that I've been inspired I went out and tried to find the individual I was thinking of, because I knew I had seen him mentioned during one of the featurettes in the Extended Editions. Sala Baker played Sauron, as well as Orc/Uruk-Hai characters. Granted you can't tell -who- Sauron is played by, he still played other orc characters who may have been recreated in some way, shape or form in merchandising.

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Ted Sweeny wrote:Hi, actually the Mouth of Sauron was played by well known actor (to a degree) Bruce Spence (The Road Warrior, Revenge of the Sith). It must have been terrible to have your only scene in such a big movie cut from the theatrical release.


*TS
Spense also played "The Train Man" in The Matrix Revolutions (a movie which I liked but which I know many people didn't). I think he may also have had apart in the travesty that was Queen of the Damned.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

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Another tidbit from Variety:

New Line's Shaye won't yield to Jackson
Co-chief Lynne wants to settle 'Rings' dispute



New Line founder Bob Shaye shows no signs of yielding in the company's legal squabble with Peter Jackson over profits from "The Lord of the Rings."

In a conversation at AmPav on Tuesday with Variety editor-in-chief Peter Bart, Shaye said the company had already paid Jackson and his wife, Fran Walsh, $250 million in profit participation. The clash happened because "one of us has gotten poor counsel," Shaye said, without elaborating.


Co-chief Michael Lynne struck a more upbeat note. "We do want to settle our dispute and I think we will."


A "Hobbit" pic is still in the plans, both execs were coy about reports that Sam Raimi is being lined up to direct.


"There's never been any announcement," Lynne said. "Like a lot of people, he might," Shaye added.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

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Wow, this is really starting to make Bob Shaye look bad- not that he needs any help! it seems he's living in reality in that he feels he can treat others any way he wants and then when he's called on it he's blames them and their "poor counsel". It is because of this whole fiasco that I never saw the last whimsy, and am not inerested in anything Mr. Shaye is directly involved with.
Go Peter and all the other awesome LOTR actors!! :thumbs_up
Glamdring, Sting, Hadhafang, Strider sword, Legolas' Fighting knives, Aragorn's elven knife, Herugrim, Gimli's Battle Axe, Gimli's Walking Axe, Gandalf's staff, Saruman's staff, Eowyns sword, Scabbards:Glamdring(blue), Aragorn's ranger sword, Legolas' fighting knives, sting- hope to have alot more!!!

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Here's my guess at a sample of the 'poor counsel' PJ got:

Poor Counsel : "Wow Peter, have you looked at the revenue figures for the international releases? "

PJ: "Yeah, so?"

Poor Counsel: "Well, I don't think they quite match up with what you should have received under your contract. Maybe you should look into this?"

PJ: "Yeah, you may have a point. Let's call New Line and compare notes."

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What I love is how Shaye acts like PJ's is just greedy, because he's already made so much money from the movies. As if that somehow negates his contract. $500 is a lot to me, but if you told me you were going to give me $1,000, I still want that other $500. Just because PJ has made more money on these than I could ever imagine, it doesn't mean he should be cheated out of any of it.

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What Shaye is doing is a form of misdirection that's very common in politics and apparently in business too. It's like, "look at what that guy did and maybe you'll ignore what I did." In the end, it's just hypocrisy.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

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A slightly more upbeat article, from http://www.davidbordwell.net/blog/?p=944


Observations on film art and Film Art
by Kristin Thompson and David Bordwell


Once more on New Line, Peter Jackson, and The Hobbit

Image

Gandalf introduces Bilbo to Beorn. Illustration by Michael Hague

Kristin here–
After several months of raised and dashed hopes, the question of who will direct the film of J.R.R. Tolkien’s The Hobbit remains open. I first weighed in on the question back on October 2 of last year, when this blog was in its infancy. MGM had just announced that they would be making The Hobbit and hoped that Peter Jackson would direct. At that point I was trying to sort out Peter Jackson’s large number of film projects and to e xp lain how his schedule might include time to direct The Hobbit.

Subsequently there was a clarification. MGM, which owns the distribution rights to any film version of the novel, would co-produce with New Line, which produced The Lord of the Rings and owns the filmmaking rights for The Hobbit.

Then, early this year, New Line founder and co-president Bob Shaye declared in an interview that Jackson would never direct The Hobbit while he is in charge of the company. The obstacle was a lawsuit that Jackson had filed against New Line; he wanted an accounting of earnings on the DVDs of The Fellowship of the Ring and various licensed products. See my January 23 attemptto e xp lain all that.

As before, no doubt negotiations are going on behind the scenes. To reiterate my disclaimer from the earlier entries, I have no inside information, given that my contact with Jackson and the other filmmakers was back in 2003 and 2004, during the research for The Frodo Franchise. As someone who has followed the situation very closely since undertaking my book back in 2002, however, I can make what I hope are some enlightening comments on the scraps of news that have appeared since January.

A faint hint that Shaye might possibly be backing away from his absolute rejection of Jackson as director for The Hobbit came in a brief interview in the April issue of Wired (also online). As far as I could tell, this went largely unremarked at the time. The first two questions related to The Last Mimzy, the children’s fantasy directed by Shaye, which was then being released to what proved to be disappointing box-office results. Inevitably, though, the interviewer switched to the Hobbit situation:

You recently said Peter Jackson would never touch The Hobbit while you were at New Line.You know, we’re being sued right now, so I can’t comment on ongoing litigation. But I said some things publicly, and I’m sorry that I’ve lost a colleague and a friend.Is The Hobbit still a viable project?I can only say we’re going to do the best we can with it. I respect the fans a lot.Shaye’s statements might be seen by some as implying that he regretted his rejection of Jackson as a director. Given that the vast majority of fans want Jackson to direct, the last sentence seems to offer hope that Shaye might relent and bow to their wishes.

A greater stir was caused by Entertainment Weekly’s April 16 announcement that Sam Raimi had e xp ressed interest in directing The Hobbit—a possibility that had been circulating widely as a rumor since shortly after Shaye’s January pronouncement. As I suggested in my previous entry, however, most directors would shrink from upsetting Jackson and his fans by simply taking the job. Raimi made it clear what circumstances would be necessary: “First and foremost, those are Peter Jackson and Bob Shaye’s films. If Peter didn’t want to do it and Bob wanted me to do it—and they were both okay with me picking up the reins—that would be great. I love the book.” (Raimi presumably refers to films in the plural because MGM had suggested in September that it was considering a two-part adaptation.)

Raimi risked riling not only Rings fans but Spider-Man afficionados, who were upset at the idea that he might bow out of a presumed fourth entry in his own franchise. In the nearly two months since Raimi’s statement, there has been no public indication that he is being seriously courted to accept the job directing The Hobbit.

Jackson, however, has been busy. The projects on his plate have changed considerably since early October. Only a few weeks after my summary, Universal and Twentieth Century Fox, which had been on board to finance the video-game-to-film adaptation of Halo for co-production by Jackson and Microsoft, bowed out. The project is now on hold, with the assumption that the release of the Halo 3 game, announced for September 27, will regenerate studios’ interest.

The remake of The Dam Busters is moving forward, but it is being directed by Christian Rivers rather than Jackson, who serves as producer. The acquisition of Naomi Novik’s “Temeraire” series by Jackson and partner Fran Walsh, announced September 12, apparently has not resulted in a specific project. The pair presumably have the option of making it into a film at some future date or letting their option lapse.

The project that has made great progress is Jackson and Walsh’s adaptation of Anne Sebold’s bestseller The Lovely Bones. Their script was up for bids this spring, and on May 4, Variety announced its sale to Dreamworks. Reportedly the film will be delivered by the fourth quarter of 2008. It might be possible to commence pre-production work on a Hobbit film while The Lovely Bones is in progress.

Less than two weeks later, Variety revealed that Steven Spielberg is teaming with Jackson to produce three feature films based on the classic Belgian comic books starring Tintin. Each plans to direct one of the features, with a third director undertaking the others.

In October I suggested that most of Jackson’s projects were flexible in their timing, and that left the possibility that he could shift them around to fit in The Hobbit. Given that no timing has been announced for the Tintin films, Jackson’s only apparent project with a deadline is The Lovely Bones.
Finally, at the Cannes Film Festival, Shaye and co-president of New Line Michael Lynne spoke to Variety’s editor-in-chief, Peter Bart, about the Hobbit project. Their remarks might give Rings fans cause for hope.
Shaye maintained his stance, declaring that New Line had paid Jackson and Walsh $250 million in profit participation. “The clash happened because ‘one of us has gotten poor counsel,’ Shaye said, without elaborating.”
The story continues: “Co-chief Michael Lynne struck a more upbeat note. ‘We do want to settle our dispute and I think we will.’” Neither would comment on the rumors that Raimi was being wooed for the Hobbit adaptation. When asked about Raimi, Lynne replied, “There’s never been any announcement.” Shaye added, “Like a lot of people, he might.”
I think there are two major factors underlying this feud between Jackson and Shaye that haven’t been pointed out and need to be. First, lawsuits of the type Jackson brought are pretty common in Hollywood. Second, Shaye is perhaps forgetting the amount of personal investment and financial risk Jackson took to get Rings made—investments that cost New Line nothing but which brought in a hugely successful film on a surprisingly low budget. (I e xp lain how in the first chapter of The Frodo Franchise.)

Jackson’s isn’t even the first suit against New Line by someone central to the film’s making. Independent producer Saul Zaentz sold the adaptation rights to Miramax back in 1997, and that company in turn sold them to New Line in 1998. As part of these deals, Zaentz was to receive 5% of gross international receipts. He sued, claiming that the $168 million paid to him was calculated on net receipts, leaving a balance of $20 million owed him. The suit was to come to court on July 19, 2005, but New Line settled for an undisclosed amount shortly before that. The same thing could happen in Jackson’s case, and the settlement could come at any time.

Zaentz isn’t the only other person claiming to have been shortchanged by New Line. On May 30 of this year, a group of fifteen Kiwi actors filed a suit claiming that they had not been paid the 5% of net merchandising revenues for products bearing their likenesses. (The group includes Sarah McLeod, who played Rosie Cotton, Craig Parker, who played Haldir, and Bruce Hopkins, who played Gamling.) The suit isn’t likely to reach court soon, if ever, but Jackson isn’t alone in his doubts about New Line’s accounting practices.

Moreover, Jackson and Walsh spent an enormous amount of their own money upgrading the filmmaking firms in Wellington to make them sophisticated enough to handle all phases of Rings’s production. Weta’s two halves, Digital and Workshop, of which the couple owns a third, were vastly enlarged. Jackson and Walsh bought the country’s only post-production facility, The Film Unit, when it was for sale and under threat to be moved out of New Zealand. They went into debt to do that, and it, too, was enlarged and moved into a huge facility full of highly sophisticated equipment. Much of this e xp ansion was paid for with the money Jackson received for making Rings.

The result was a trio of films that grossed nearly $3 billion internationally, as well as untold additional revenues for the DVDs, video games, and other ancillaries. New Line went from a small subsidiary of Time Warner known mainly for its Nightmare on Elm Street series to a well-respected company making prestige films like Terence Malick’s The New World and the upcoming The Golden Compass, an adaptation of the first novel of Phillip Pullman’s award-winning trilogy. Oh, and there’s the matter of the seventeen Oscars Rings won. Previously New Line, founded in 1967, had won two.

In the wake of Rings, Jackson was faced with having to keep Weta, The Film Unit (now renamed Park Road Post), the Stone Street Studios, and his WingNut production firm going. Beyond the physical facilities, which no doubt involve enormous overhead costs, there are the many hundreds of employees to be paid. New Line did not invest in these facilities. Jackson and Walsh, along with their partners Richard Taylor and Jamie Selkirk, did.
When I first visited Wellington, there was a question as to whether there would be enough business to keep the facilities going and the employees in work. King Kong helped in the short run, but would other big films follow? Since then, Weta Workshop has diversified and is thriving. Weta Digital gets regular work doing the CGI for large numbers of shots in such films as X-Men 3: The Last Stand and Eragon. James Cameron’s decision to make Avatar in Jackson’s facilities seems the final seal of approval. Weta Digital is now widely considered one of the top digital effects houses in the world, alongside such firms as ILM, Sony’s Imageworks, and Rhythm & Hues.
Now the Wellington facilities all seem to be doing well. Nevertheless, in the era before Rings’s release and huge success, Jackson took as big a risk as Shaye did. Maybe bigger. Shaye might ponder that as he decides what to do about the Hobbit project. He owes the Kiwi filmmaker gratitude for more than simply directing a runaway hit.

Beyond that, unless New Line has short-changed Jackson very badly through its accounting procedures (and all that would presumably come out eventually when the suit finishes up), the added value provided by the director’s name on a Hobbit film would surely be at least as great as the money owed. Unless there is some major unknown factor influencing Shaye’s decision, he would do well to tamp his resentment, make peace, and initiate a project that is as close to a guaranteed mega-hit as anything can be these days. He could settle out of court, as he did with Zaentz, and just get on with it.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

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Bob "over my dead body" Shaye taking a more conciliatory tone?
And, speaking of fantasies, Shaye hints we should never say never at the idea of Jackson, whom he labeled "arrogant" last year, directing "The Hobbit" someday.


"There's nothing I can really talk about except to say that I believe 'The Hobbit' will be made," says Shaye, choosing his words carefully like the lawyer that he is. "There's a bunch of issues and elements that have to be addressed.


"I don't like to have issues with anybody. Any issues with Mr. Jackson, I would prefer to have them closed, rather than open."
Read the whole article here:
http://www.nypost.com/seven/07102007/en ... menick.htm
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

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It sounds to me like Mr. Shaye would like end the hostilities between him and Jackson. The fact that New Line has had 3 lacklustre films at the box office may be encouraging him as New Line's star has faded some because of that. A studio needs to have at least 1 hit movie every once in a while and New Line hasn't had one in a while. Shaye has to know a Jackson produced "Hobbit" would be a blockbuster and make New Line's star bright once more.
10 months and counting till the release of The Hobbit.

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He doesn't strike me as the kind of guy that simply realizes these things on his own and what a complete jerk he's been throughout this whole affair. More than likely someone told him to cool it and that he should adopt a new tone. The other head of New Line and shareholders come to mind.

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Chris Carter, the creator of "The X Files," had a suit against 20th Cen Fox that was probably very similar to PJ's suit. Carter's suit was recently settled, and a new X Files movie is e xp ected to begin work this fall (YES!!! FINALLY!!!!). Now, if only New Line could learn from that....
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

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Not to get everyone's hopes up prematurely, but there appears to be a thaw in the cold war between Shaye and Jackson. Here's from stuff.co.nz; similar stories are floating on other websites.

Peter Jackson may make The Hobbit after all, despite a financial battle with the studio that commissioned him to film The Lord of the Rings.

Bob Shaye, head of New Line Cinema, has told The Los Angeles Times that the studio - which Jackson has sued for profits from The Lord of the Rings trilogy - has been in talks with Jackson's representatives in a bid to mend fences and get him to direct The Hobbit.

"Notwithstanding our personal quarrels, I really respect and admire Peter and would love for him to be creatively involved in some way in The Hobbit," Mr Shaye said.

He had previously labelled Jackson as "arrogant", while Jackson and partner Fran Walsh took the unusual step of issuing a long statement on the internet last year declaring that because of clashes with New Line they had "no choice but to let the idea of a film of The Hobbit go".

British actor Sir Ian McKellen, who played the wizard Gandalf in the trilogy, is in Wellington to perform with the Royal Shakespeare Company. At a news conference on Thursday, he said there was no doubt that a rumoured reprisal of his Gandalf role in a film version of The Hobbit would be discussed with Jackson and Walsh.

Jackson's spokesman said last night: "Peter and Fran have always wanted to do The Hobbit but whether that happens is yet to be decided."
Last edited by Olorin on Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

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Here's another blurb from theonering.net:

Observant Compa_Mighty has now written in with more fresh Hobbit news. Word reached our ears months ago that Sam Raimi would direct "The Hobbit," but everything seemed to be in flux. In the last 48 hours word has traveled fast that Peter Jackson and New Line were at least on speaking terms. IESB.net is reporting (no source named so tread with caution) that Jackson and Raimi may be on the project. Don't believe everything you read but this story makes a lot of sense. It also seems that Bob Shaye may have been hinting at this yesterday when he said, "I really respect and admire Peter and would love for him to be creatively involved in some way in 'The Hobbit.' " Notice he didn't say he would "direct" the film but did say "involved in some way". Anyway, stay tuned as more clues are uncovered.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

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Personally, the sooner Raimi is out of the picture and Jackson is back in, the happier I'll be. I wasn't 100% happy with Jackson's LOTR movies, but at least he's a known commodity and something I can live with. So once Jackson's back in the captain's chair, I can be patient in awaiting the movie (though I hope they do it before Ian McKellen is too old or too dead to play Gandalf).
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

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with what they did in xmen.... mckellen played magneto 30 years younger... a couple clicks with a mouse... i dont know how they'd fix the "too dead" problem.

peter jackson did take a lot of creative license with LOTR, but with him directing the hobbit, it would still be that same feel... a new director i dont think could mesh what jackson did with something new.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

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"... i dont know how they'd fix the "too dead" problem."
lol. fully digital Gandalf :crazy:

Concerning Raimi, I think it would have the potential to bring a good sort of "freshness" to the film, or it could completely ruin it. :P So I would definately feel much more secure if PJ directed it instead of just being "involved in some creative way", whether that would make him producer or whatever Shaye had meant by that. :rolleye:
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