Re: The Hobbit

901
From SlashFilms:

MGM on the Verge of Bankruptcy? Where Does This Leave Bond and The Hobbit?

Image

There’s a complicated story brewing with MGM, which for the last thirty years has frequently been in dire financial straits. The severely abridged form is that MGM and its library have been bought and sold multiple times since the ’80s, and that the company is currently operating with a debt load and interest payment schedule that have analysts and lenders highly concerned about the company’s solvency. Yesterday the studio held a long conference call (or series of calls) with bondholders, and the lingering question is this: is it better for the company’s lenders to let MGM file for bankruptcy or not? If so, they might get some of their money (a nearly $4b debt that may only be worth less than half that at auction) versus none.

What does this mean to you? If MGM files for bankruptcy, assets could be sold to cover that $4b debt. One of the company’s prime assets is the James Bond franchise. And if MGM has no money, Peter Jackson and Guillermo Del Toro’s Hobbit films (which MGM is co-financing and distributing outside the US) might be on hold until a rights sale could be negotiated, likely with New Line / Warner Bros.

Nikki Finke has the story, and reports that “the bondhholders said to MGM, in essence, that they were going to let the studio go bankrupt and collect their money since they’d be first in line to get paid.” But, Finke reports, MGM says that’s pretty much the worst possible course of action, as that would force an asset sale, which would basically kill the studio. The Hobbit would likely be sold, and the potential delay there could be damaging to the film(s), if not destructive.

This raises a lot of questions, and if you’ve been wondering why MGM is so keen on remaking movies like Robocop and Red Dawn, also provides some answers. Those franchises are ready-made assets that the studio could theoretically get moving fast. Red Dawn wasn’t mobilized quickly to take advantage of any political zeitgeist; it was fast-tracked because United Artists films Lions For Lambs and Valkyrie weren’t earners. Fame opens this weekend, and it is likely going to under-perform, too.

So what’s next? This is not yet a death knell for The Hobbit or a changing of the guard for Bond. MGM wants bondholders to waive interest payments until February 2010. Money that doesn’t go to interest payments can fund films. MGM’s lenders have to be convinced that bankruptcy is a worse fate than letting the payments slide for several months. It would be a worse fate because the time-consuming and e xp ensive process may not return money to the lenders quickly, if at all. Selling off MGM may currently return less than fifty cents on the dollar; the lenders are out $2b.

Bottom line: MGM has to formally ask is creditors to put off interest payments until Feburary of next year, and those lenders have to agree. If they don’t, things could get very unstable for Bond and The Hobbit.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: The Hobbit

903
The Hobbit has dodged the danger again:
'Hobbit' stays with MGM

Debt deal allows studio to remain a player in adaptation

By Carl DiOrio and Borys Kit
Oct 1, 2009, 07:31 PM ET


MGM has secured support from key lenders to allow the studio enough cash to proceed with its participation in "The Hobbit."

A recent proposal by MGM's new CEO Steve Cooper to defer interest payments on its debt load for the next three months on Thursday won a crucial endorsement from J.P. Morgan.

The investment firm leads a lenders steering committee that has been agitating for a dramatic restructuring of the Lion's operations and its ownership structure. In exchange for an agreement to limited interest forbearance, J.P. Morgan secured a few changes in existing debt terms.

Concern over MGM's hold on "Hobbit" is at the heart of the activity. In a 50-50 rights partnership with Warner Bros.' New Line unit, two "Hobbit" pics are being developed.

The first "Hobbit" aims for theatrical release in 2011, with Guillermo del Toro on board to direct that and a sequel. Peter Jackson, Fran Walsh, Philippa Boyens and del Toro are writing scripts for both and are e xp ected to deliver the first screenplay by the end of November.

Warners will lead production and distribute at least domestically. For now, the Burbank studio also is covering any immediate e xp enses.

In the end, the forbearance was granted, but not everyone was thrilled with the move. But a 51% majority would have had to oppose the plan to block its implementation, and that was never likely given such a disparate group of lenders.

The move to delay interest payments until Dec. 15 wasn't motivated by any immediate fears of insolvency at MGM, as a recent company audit showed cash flow should be sufficient to keep the lights on for at least another year.

But both current management and the lenders realize the studio's various rights on major properties such as "Hobbit," "The Pink Panther" and, most of all, the lucrative James Bond franchise are key to MGM maintaining a decent market value.

Eventually, once equity is shifted from the Lion's current owners to the lenders group, an auction likely will be held for the studio. Keeping its 50% hold on "Hobbit" -- broadly viewed as a potential big moneymaker -- would bolster interest in bidding on the Lion.

In backing the studio's payment holiday, lenders will get weekly reports from MGM regarding its cash levels and other financial details. Execs also pledged to submit a detailed restructuring proposal and updated valuation of its assets by Nov. 30.

MGM execs hope to corral at least $40 million for its "Hobbit" activities. The requested interest deferrals amount to more than $50 million.

Lion management first proposed the forbearance on Sept. 28, seeking a payment holiday until Jan. 15. The shorter period of interest deferral was hammered out in subsequent negotiations with lenders.

Current MGM owners include investment firms Providence Equity and TPG, Sony and Comcast.

A banking source said some of the tweaks to debt terms will begin to dilute those owners' current equity. A much more dramatic shifting of equity is e xp ected over coming months as lenders agree to convert debt to equity.

Once the lenders become owners, that group likely would conduct an auction for the assets. Nobody sees the lenders group as a long-term operator of MGM.
from http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/con ... 39ee317c23
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: The Hobbit

906
Gotta hold my hopes out to the possibility of at least cameo appearances that play into the story.
Truly hoping that they keep an eye on the forum and took note of Val's perfect way for Legolas to fall into the story (I'll look into where he posted that later), for now I'll just say that I visualized what Val had written as it unfolded in my head and thought about how awesome it would be.

Re: The Hobbit

908
I would enjoy that also. The inclusion of Aragorn (and Legolas, for that matter) satisfies that need to appeal to the masses (as the article suggests), whilst also placating the real LotR fans in the process, since their appearance would not be entirely out of the realm of possibility, even if it isn't e xp ressly mentioned. Let's just hope Frodo doesn't randomly show up :P

Re: The Hobbit

909
[quote=""The Flame of the West""]I would enjoy that also. The inclusion of Aragorn (and Legolas, for that matter) satisfies that need to appeal to the masses (as the article suggests), whilst also placating the real LotR fans in the process, since their appearance would not be entirely out of the realm of possibility, even if it isn't e xp ressly mentioned. Let's just hope Frodo doesn't randomly show up :P [/quote]

When they were still talking about the two movies as the Hobbit proper and a bridge film, the birth/childhood of Frodo was mooted as the ending of the bridge film. Now that that concept has been discarded and presumably the whole story will occur within the timeframe of the Hobbit proper, that seems very unlikely.

Still, one never knows.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: The Hobbit

910
Personally, I would -love- to see Frodo at the end of the second movie just as a happy ending/bridge. I wouldn't want it to be more than a brief cameo of the character. Hell, seeing all of the Hobbits in a brief wrap-up could be done well.

Any thoughts...?

Re: The Hobbit

911
[quote=""GuardianWolf""]Personally, I would -love- to see Frodo at the end of the second movie just as a happy ending/bridge. I wouldn't want it to be more than a brief cameo of the character. Hell, seeing all of the Hobbits in a brief wrap-up could be done well.

Any thoughts...?[/quote]
Like, "Welcome back uncle Bilbo! We wondered if you'd return!" And he just happens to be hangin' with the others at the time.

Re: The Hobbit

913
I think Jackson and del Torro respect us hardcore fans enough not to just shove characters from the original trilogy (finally, us LOTR fans can use that phrase...) in to The Hobbit for the sake of doing it. I feel like if any of them have large parts (more than just a cameo) it will be worthwhile. I highly doubt we'll see "Oh we need to fight Goblins and woo, here's Aragorn just because!" Still, it's good for marketing to bring back safe characters that they know people will be watching for and will buy products for. The studio is probably really hoping and maybe even pushing for Aragorn and Legolas and such to show up, even briefly.

I think having Frodo and Co. at the end of the second film will give that "happy ending" that the Hobbit needs. The Hobbit was originally more of a children's book and had a happier ending to it than the less-so LOTR one. Bringing in a friendly relative of Bilbo's and showing the shire being all peaceful and fanciful would be a nice set-up for the dark trilogy to follow. Strangely, it could get some even more interested in LOTR. With LOTR we pretty much only saw Middle Earth in its downward spiral. The Hobbit has a unique opportunity to show audiences Middle Earth before Sauron's full influence. In a unfortunate analogy on several levels, it's a bit like Star Wars. We started by seeing the galaxy as a pretty bleak place. Then the prequel trilogy came along showing the Republic being healthy and the Jedi order being noble and such. Kind of made you hate the Empire even more for seeing what the broke.

Just a bit of a random thought.

Re: The Hobbit

915
I don't think anyone would e xp ect Bilbo to return to see Frodo waiting for him on his return. Even the casual movie-goer would call shenanigans on that...

I don't see Bilbo returning home and simply having it end there. There will likely be a brief lead in to LOTR or a hinting of "trouble to come" scene. I think in that brief e xp lanation we could be treated to seeing a younger Frodo coming to live with Bilbo.

While I'm glad they decided to go with a very fleshed out Hobbit story in two movies, I am worried that actual Hobbit material will be stretched thin and make for a flimsy film overall...

Re: The Hobbit

916
[quote=""samwise""]For Frodo to be waiting on Bilbo's return and greeting him would require some chronological sleight-of-hand in the screenplay. (Albert Einstein, call your office!)

Recall that Billbo was celebrating is 111th birthday. At the same time Frodo was celebrating his 33rd birthday (coming of age, like reaching 21); in other words, a 78 year difference in their ages. Bilbo went on his adventures in The Hobbit when he was 51, and returned a year later, at 52. Frodo was born 26 years AFTER Bilbo returned to Shire. And in FOTR it states Frodo started getting the wanderlust at the same age Bilbo got it, that is, when he turned 50.

So it would be an anachronism to have Frodo waiting for him. And especially to have any of the other three hobbits there since they are all younger than Frodo.

See Appendix B (The Tale of Years) in ROTK

Of course, when a story gets "adapted" from book to screen, all bets are off when it comes to anything like accuracy (remember the green flubber attacking Sauron's army at Minas Tirith :P )[/quote]
Well that pretty much makes it impossible for Frodo to be in it. Good point :thumbs_up .

Re: The Hobbit

925
Am I the only one to notice that Flame of the West has made his first post since a couple of years ago? :huh:

Welcome back, buddy! :thumbs_up

(Yes, I know most of you are too new here to remember him, but it's always good to see an old stalwart return.)
This Space for Rent

Re: The Hobbit

931
I don't know that Davies turning down the Hobbit is a real surprise to anyone...he really hated the e xp erience of working on the trilogies as it related to the make-up of becoming a dwarf. If memory serves me right he developed a strong allergy to the latex used?

However, this is good news in a way. This means they're offering parts to people. We might get some official cast revelations soon!

Re: The Hobbit

932
Much as I enjoyed his performance as Gimli, I'm not going to lose sleep over this.

With the bridge movie out of the picture, and only a few flashforward sequences that have been hinted at, I don't think it makes sense to try and cram every last character from the previous trilogy into the Hobbit.

I know half of you guys will shout me down on this one, but there it is: I want this to be a Hobbit movie that stands on its own two legs, not a LOTR cast reunion full of cheesy and contrived cameos. To my mind, these are the only characters that have a 100% right to return:

Bilbo - obviously (recast)
Gandalf - McKellen
Gollum - Serkis
Elrond - Weaving

Characters that would make *sense* if they were seen:

Legolas - Bloom - as the group has to go through Mirkwood, a sequence showing Legolas in the court of his father, out in the forest with the wood elves, or possibly even joining the elven army at the end would make perfect sense and not seem out of place.

Arwen - Tyler - as the daughter of Elrond and being ageless, she could theoretically appear in the Rivendell scene. If there is a flashforward with Aragorn, we could see them falling in love.

Aragorn - Mortensen - given his longevity as one of the Dunedain, a younger Aragorn could be shown briefly in one of the many adventures mentioned in the Appendices.

Saruman - Lee - as leader of the White Council, his presence would be pivotal to any scenes concering the attack on Dol Guldur, only hinted at in the book.

Galadriel - Blanchett - same as Saruman, her presence is needed for the White Council scenes.

That about does it. I don't care how much I liked them, but to see Frodo, Sam, Merry, Pippin, Gimli, or Boromir appear in these new movies would be just cheap sentimentality as there is nothing major these characters contributed to the history of Middle-earth prior to their role in the War of the Ring. Of them all, only Gimli was even born at the time of the Hobbit, and he was much too young to accompany his father on the quest. Just shoe-horning all these people into 'feel good' scenes because you can would be stupid and a waste of time, as I don't feel they can contribute anything to the plot. The end of the Hobbit movies should not be the Muppet babies - I don't want to see all these characters in their youth as I see no purpose to that unless they have something to do, and in this case, they don't.

The end of Return of the King was very long and protracted already, and I simply don't want to sit through a similar ending again. We all know what will happen after, so wrap it up neatly and with possibly just a few omens of what is to come, and then end the movie. I don't want to see the smiling faces of all the old cast reunited again in a cheap bid for some sentimentality. That for me will ruin the end of the movie.
This Space for Rent

Re: The Hobbit

934
[QUOTE=Valkrist;65796]Much as I enjoyed his performance as Gimli, I'm not going to lose sleep over this.

With the bridge movie out of the picture, and only a few flashforward sequences that have been hinted at, I don't think it makes sense to try and cram every last character from the previous trilogy into the Hobbit.

I know half of you guys will shout me down on this one, but there it is: I want this to be a Hobbit movie that stands on its own two legs,
etc etc etc ----------------------------

huzzah!! :thumbs_up
 ! Warning
The signature picture extension is not installed.

Re: The Hobbit

936
[quote=""Olorin""]John Rhys Davies has turned down The Hobbit[/quote]

Hopefully his battle axe will return - Balin should carry that one, might be an
interesting homage. Do you think they'll remember that and would it be good
at all? If not mistaken, Gimli picked that one up in Balin's tomb in Moria.
Although it's not filmed, it's clear he didn't have it before, and down the
stairway it's on his back.

(I know it's quite random, but I really pay much attention to these blades.)

Re: The Hobbit

937
[quote=""ed209""]Hopefully his battle axe will return - Balin should carry that one, might be an
interesting homage. Do you think they'll remember that and would it be good
at all? If not mistaken, Gimli picked that one up in Balin's tomb in Moria.
Although it's not filmed, it's clear he didn't have it before, and down the
stairway it's on his back.

(I know it's quite random, but I really pay much attention to these blades.)[/quote]
Yes, well a curator tends to pay attention to a lot of details most people over look.
Seems you always know where to find things ed. I lost a pair of shoes I really liked; do you know where they are too? :(
(I'm honestly afraid you will post a You Tube and- low and behold! There they are!) :)

Re: The Hobbit

938
Well, if that indeed was the story of an axe, what do you think, would it fit
in "Hobbit"? Will they remember it at all?

Hehe, I'm not sure about your shoes, pal, and considering those details
many may overlook, it's because obviously I have no life outside this hobby
of mine, and that's not something to congratulate.

But thanks anyway! :thumbs_up

Oh, and thumbs up for Val's post, especially the "...not a LOTR cast reunion
full of cheesy and contrived cameos" part. Couldn't agree more.

Re: The Hobbit

939
Well, I don't exactly want a cast reunion, certainly not one for the sake of having a cast reunion, and Gimli would have been one of the harder ones to work in (unless they showed the Dwarves getting ready to leave their home in the Blue Mts. to come visit the Shire). I guess I took JRD's refusal more as a sign of the possibility that actors who should return wouldn't, for whatever reason. He's the second who has said he won't be back (Sir Christopher Lee being the first).

And speaking of Lee, here's this:
Arise, Sir Dracula: prince knights Christopher Lee



Image
Mind the fangs: Sir Christopher Lee receives his knighthood from the Prince of Wales at Buckingham Palace. Photograph: Johnny Green/PA


Finding oneself opposite a tall, baleful celluloid vampire would have most people reaching for a head of the most pungent Spanish garlic, a large crucifix or a sharp stake.

The Prince of Wales, however, opted for a ceremonial sword, even as the 1.95-metre (6ft 5ins) vision of Count Dracula leaned worryingly close to the royal neck.

Fortunately, the prince had little to fear. Christopher Lee – aka Counts Dracula and Dooku, not to mention Lord Summerisle and the Duc de Richeleau – had been invited to Buckingham Palace today to receive a knighthood for his services to drama and to charity.

The 87-year-old is one of cinema's most prolific actors, appearing in more than 250 films over the course of a career that has so far spanned 61 years.

After making his name by poking blood-red contact lenses into his eyes and false fangs into his gums for a series of Hammer Horror films, Lee went on to play the urbane laird of the pagan manor in The Wicker Man and the bounteously nippled, bling-packing assassin Francisco Scaramanga in the James Bond film The Man With the Golden Gun.

More recently, the actor has lent his imposing frame and limpid tones to the roles of the evil Middle Earth wizard Saruman in the Lord of the Rings, and the evil space wizard Count Dooku in the final two Star Wars films.

Lee, whose mother was an Italian countess, will next be seen in Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland, in which he plays neither a vampire nor a wizard but the Jabberwock.
I'm a little confused by the above. I thought he was knighted several weeks ago. Perhaps it was simply the announcement that he was to be knighted.

I also found it interesting that Prince Charles did the ceremony. I know the Queen has handed off a lot of duties to him, but I would have thought knighting ceremonies would have been one she would have kept, especially when she doesn't even have to leave home to do it. She must really be feeling old.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: The Hobbit

940
Well said Valkrist! I couldn't have portrayed my feelings any better myself. I completely agree with your well thought out post. :thumbs_up

Didn't Lee say at one point that he would love to be a part of the Hobbit if he didn't have to travel to NZ?

Re: The Hobbit

941
[quote=""Arwyniel""] Didn't Lee say at one point that he would love to be a part of the Hobbit if he didn't have to travel to NZ?[/quote]

I don't recall exactly what he said, but it was along those lines. I think it was that he would certainly be interested, or at least amenable, but the travel made it out of the question.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: The Hobbit

942
After reading the complete interview with Rhys-Davies, it seems that the idea (by the hints dropped) would be that he would be playing Gimli's father, Gloin, and not Gimli himself.

I can't say that I would have a problem with this at all, as it would be a good way to have a LOTR cast member return in a role that makes sense, even if not playing his original character. The applied prosthetics could give Davies a very different look as Gloin so as to not be confused with Gimli, and I'm sure he could change his voice enough so as to not sound the same. Sadly, Davies is not interested, not only for the excruciating ordeal that entails having all that makeup applied, but also because he mentioned that being one of thirteen, it would not be a very big part. He also mentioned he's not interested in cameo, which would rule out sticking Gimli in somewhere. Gotta respect the man for his convictions, though I would have enjoyed seeing him as Gloin.

Just as a point of curiosity - if you know your lore well enough, you know that Gloin attended the Council of Elrond in FOTR. In the scene when Gimli is shown arriving at Rivendell, there are some other dwarves in the background, and during the council scene in particular, there is an older dwarf beside Gimli who can only be Gloin.

Check out this photo - assuming Gimli is the second dwarf from the right (I think that's actually Davies' stunt double,) and because the rightmost dwarf seems too young, that would make Gloin possibly the older-looking dwarf to Gimli's left. :)

Image


The only possible discrepancy here is that when Gimli arrives at Rivendell, an older, white-haired dwarf is seen behind him making some fans point out that this is Gloin. Certainly the white hair and beard would be fitting considering the time gap between the two stories, but the problem is, we know for certain Gloin attended the Council, so then why is the white-haired dwarf not among the four dwarves present? (note that there are a couple of elder humans sitting beside the dwarves, and they have white-grey hair and beards, but these should not be mistaken for the old dwarf in question, which is clearly visible in the arrival scene.)

Image
Last edited by Valkrist on Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
This Space for Rent

Re: The Hobbit

945
Yeah we're assuming he's the one to the left of Gimli from our perspective, to Gimi's right from Gimli's perspective, to the right of the first dwarf from our perspective, to the left of the first dwarf from the first dwarf's perspective, 2nd in from our perspective, third in from the right, and two seats to the right of the dwarf on the far left from his perspective and two seats to the left of the dwarf on the far right from our perspective.





( :) )




And somewhere in relation to that Theoden wannabe on the far left.
-_-

Re: The Hobbit

947
[quote=""Sedhal""]And somewhere in relation to that Theoden wannabe on the far left.[/quote]

Those two guys framing the dwarves on either side were supposed to represent the faction from Dale. Since Dale is right below the Lonely Mountain, it's safe to assume the two groups travelled together for safety. They actually had spoken lines at the Council, but sadly the scene was cut.

I particularly miss the bit in the book where Gloin speaks up and bitterly scolds Legolas for the unkind treatment his father gave the dwarves when they passed through years ago. That would have been a nice nod to The Hobbit. Just makes me wish all the more that Legolas appears in the new movies in a meaningful way.
This Space for Rent

Re: The Hobbit

948
Here's a nice tidbit from SciFiWire:
'Gandalf' has read the Hobbit script and tells us about it

Image

Ian McKellen, whom we e xp ect will put on Gandalf's gray robes in director Guillermo del Toro's upcoming Hobbit movies, tells us he's finally read the script for the films.

And, no, he won't tell us much about it, except that producer Peter Jackson (who co-wrote the script with longtime Lord of the Rings collaborators Fran Walsh and Philippa Boyens, as well as del Toro) wrote it specifically for him.

"As Peter has said, they loved writing Gandalf [for The Hobbit] because they knew who they were writing him for," McKellen told us exclusively in an interview last week while promoting AMC's The Prisoner. "There are a lot of characters in The Hobbit, including, crucially, Bilbo, and they don't know who's going to play Bilbo. So it's extremely attractive that this part has been written for me. The other Gandalf was written for, well, just as Gandalf. There's lots for me to enjoy, in all sorts of ways. And I couldn't be happier. But I'm sworn to secrecy. I'm not to say anything at all about the script."

As for del Toro's input into the new script, McKellen said that he and Jackson speak the same language. "They are the same person," he said. "They were separated at birth. They're twins. They have the same attitude. Neither likes working in Hollywood. They're both fascinated by fantasy and violence on the screen, and gore, and things that frighten you. They like going into the psyche. They're both brilliant storytellers in very much the same way. And I think the script, because I have read it, plays very much to Guillermo's strengths, as I've seen them. I have seen his other movies, and people act very well in them. So I think it's all fine. And Peter will always be there."

McKellen said that the role of Gandalf changed his life forever. "I can't believe it's 10 years for me," said the actor, who first played the wizard in The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring, film one in the trilogy that began principal photography in New Zealand in 1999. "I remember being told by a friend in Hollywood that 'your life is going to change,' and it has. Gandalf is an extremely famous character, and I quite like having him around the corner. He's very popular."
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: The Hobbit

950
Hi all...
I just have a quick question as I have been out of the forums and the LOTR/Hobbit world while strenuously finishing my degree, What exactly are they doing with the two films now? From what i've been reading in the threads here, its going to be the hobbit stretched over two movies as opposed to the Hobbit and then the Bridge. Can someone post the link to the article that states this info? Thanks a million

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