I don't think I noted it my review part 1, but the theatre I saw it in was HFR. I only wrote that it was UltraAVX 48fps 3D. Anyway, maybe I lucked out with my theatre, or maybe I already had some immunity to the uber-reality image effect, but I had no problems. I think I will avoid the IMAX showings as those seem the most problematic, but I would like to see it again in 2D 24fps just to compare.

[quote=""Olorin""]Well, I think the ultimate example of someone totally becoming their role is, oddly enough, the actor PJ allegedly wanted to play Aragorn—Daniel Day Lewis. He's legendary that way.

On another note, here are a couple of views from the Digital Bits about the effectiveness of 3D and HFR in The Hobbit: http://www.thedigitalbits.com/columns/t ... into-speed

The take-home is that the quality of what you saw might vary greatly from theater to theater, not only due to the type of 3D they were using and whether or not it was HFR, but also due to how well the theater was projecting the film.

I saw it twice: IMAX 3D and regular 2D, 24 fps both times. I did not find the 3D to be all that great. Certainly, it was not Avatar- or Prometheus-quality. Some of this may be due to where and how I saw it, but the article also points out what a steep learning curve the production had, taking on not only 3D and HFR but also having post-production being very rushed, with re-editing required at the last minute to refashion the film from 1/2 of a saga to 1/3 of a saga.[/quote]

I saw it in HFR 3D Imax first, the same theater I saw Prometheus and Avatar in. The 3D depth was as good, or better than those two films, and nothing looked "flat", except a few early scenes in Bag End, so a completely different e xp erience than this guy.

My only complaint was the Imax sound mix, which requires a special mix for their speaker system. Many of the subtle sound effects were simply too loud, and the music mix was not balanced very well with everything else. The mix for my 24 fps viewing was far better.

Also, I think this guy is dead wrong about saying there was rushed editing at the last minute when it was announced to be three films. As I understand it, that was in the works about six months prior to the release, and if anything, it actually meant less editing and effect work to be completed. They simply ended one beat earlier by making the forest battle the end point instead of the barrel ride.

[quote=""Nasnandos""]I saw it in HFR 3D Imax first, the same theater I saw Prometheus and Avatar in. The 3D depth was as good, or better than those two films, and nothing looked "flat", except a few early scenes in Bag End, so a completely different e xp erience than this guy.

My only complaint was the Imax sound mix, which requires a special mix for their speaker system. Many of the subtle sound effects were simply too loud, and the music mix was not balanced very well with everything else. The mix for my 24 fps viewing was far better.[/quote]

I think it is safe to say that having to prepare the film for too many presentation scenarios is a detriment. It's likely to off in some key component or other. On a related note, did anyone manage to see it at a theater with Dolby Atmos sound? I'm guessing not, as there are not too many places with that capability yet, just a few dozen places worldwide.

On a different note, PJ and Val's favorite hack, Phillippa Boyens, tease about Gandalf backstory scenes that we did not see in the first movie that we will still see at some point: http://www.vulture.com/2012/12/where-wa ... obbit.html

[quote=""Olorin""]I think it is safe to say that having to prepare the film for too many presentation scenarios is a detriment. It's likely to off in some key component or other. On a related note, did anyone manage to see it at a theater with Dolby Atmos sound? I'm guessing not, as there are not too many places with that capability yet, just a few dozen places worldwide.

On a different note, PJ and Val's favorite hack, Phillippa Boyens, tease about Gandalf backstory scenes that we did not see in the first movie that we will still see at some point: http://www.vulture.com/2012/12/where-wa ... obbit.html[/quote]

I was lucky enough to, and it was AMAZING! There is so much sound and all of the little subtle background effects come out crystal clear. The lower end "bass" shook the entire room. The only downfall I saw was that the front 2 speakers actually protrude into the screen and cover a little pit of the picture since they sit so close.

[quote=""Olorin""]On a different note, PJ and Val's favorite hack, Phillippa Boyens, tease about Gandalf backstory scenes that we did not see in the first movie that we will still see at some point: http://www.vulture.com/2012/12/where-wa ... obbit.html[/quote]

On the bright side, she makes it sound like they picked the only other appropriate spot for that scene: when the map and key need to be used and the viewer might be curious again as to how Gandalf came by these two items. Also positive is that it sounds like it will be a flashback after all rather than a real time event. References to "torture" are a good sign, meaning that Thrain is still alive, not some undead creature brought back by the Necormancer's power.

The only negative I gleaned from the interview was the obvious excitement when she talks about the "fantastic part of the storytelling" that is the Necromancer's backstory. If they cleave a little closer to Tolkien's writing, then yes, she is definitely right. If they continue to go off the deep end with this Dol Guldur stuff, then the end result could very well be cringeworthy.

The question still has not been addressed as to where the trailer scene of Gandalf in Dol Guldur with Glamdring will go.

Given my "meh" reaction to this movie, I find myself puzzled that I still look forward to the EE and the other movies (and their EEs). I guess the incurable optimist part of me still believes that things that bothered me will all get sorted out somehow. That did in fact happen to a large extent with LOTR.

Anyone recall how radagast even had the time to pick up the witchkings dagger on his way out of dol guldur?

[quote=""Olorin""]The question still has not been addressed as to where the trailer scene of Gandalf in Dol Guldur with Glamdring will go[/quote]

Good question. Now that we know Glamdring is found in the correct place in the timeline, and that Gandalf is not seen wearing a sword at any time prior to the troll cave, his entering Dol Guldur with a sword can only come during the White Council's attack. Trying to puzzle this one out is tricky though. That scene and the fight with Thrain could still be part of one and the same events. Say we get the flashback about the map and key, and then later we see Gandalf go back and this time he has to fight zombie Thrain? I shudder at the possibility.

[quote=""Aragorn""]Anyone recall how radagast even had the time to pick up the witchkings dagger on his way out of dol guldur?[/quote]

Hmmm... another good question. I recall that when he blocks the blow with his staff and then forces the Witch-king's arm upward, the Morgul blade falls clattering to the floor. Though I can 'see' Radagast bending down to pick it up after the Nazgul flees and before he catches a glimpse of Sauron, I cannot be sure if that's not just my imagination. I shall have to look closely at that detail next time.

[quote=""Valkrist""]Good question. Now that we know Glamdring is found in the correct place in the timeline, and that Gandalf is not seen wearing a sword at any time prior to the troll cave, his entering Dol Guldur with a sword can only come during the White Council's attack. Trying to puzzle this one out is tricky though. That scene and the fight with Thrain could still be part of one and the same events. Say we get the flashback about the map and key, and then later we see Gandalf go back and this time he has to fight zombie Thrain? I shudder at the possibility.
[/quote]

In the teaser trailer, when Gandalf is creeping down into the pit and when Gandalf is fighting Thrain, he does not appear to be holding or wearing a sword. In one scene where he is walking into DG, he is obviously holding Glamdring. As long as these scenes do not all come from the same sequence (i.e., they are from two different visits), there is still hope that he will only encounter Thrain once, and it will be a living, deranged Thrain, and not a zombie Thrain.

If PJ is following fan commentary on-line and adjusting the movies as he did with LOTR (removing Arwen from Helm's Deep), we might still be spared a zombie Thrain even if it was filmed.

"There is always hope."

[quote=""Olorin""]If PJ is following fan commentary on-line and adjusting the movies as he did with LOTR (removing Arwen from Helm's Deep), we might still be spared a zombie Thrain even if it was filmed.

"There is always hope."[/quote]

That's a nice thought, Olorin, but it will only have relevance if more people are as against this as you and I are. I honestly haven't been following commentaries on other sites, so I have no idea how others are taking this nonsense about Nazgul tombs and notions of raising the dead. Unless the folks at TheOneRing.Net are in an uproar over this, it's unlikely it will ever appear on PJ's radar. I certainly don't believe for one moment he even knows we exist over here.

I know; I didn't mean to imply that he's listening to us.

I don't know what the folks at TORN are making of it. I haven't been paying that much attention to them lately. I mean, I look at the site several times a day, but before the movie I was trying to avoid reviews and now that it's out, most of the news is not interesting. Plus, I almost never look at their boards, which is where the real feedback would be occurring.

I still hold that you guys are thinking too hard on this "Zombie Thrain" trailer. All this talk of Nazgul is going to have Gandalf going in and out of Dol Goldur at least a few times, both in the past and in current times, not even including the final assault by the White Council upon the fortress. When they talk about pulling backstory from the Appendices, this is THE material. Yeah, they're talking a little about Thorin and the War of the Dwarves and Orcs, but the primary point here is to show the e xp osure of Sauron. We should be seeing a lot of Dol Goldur, so don't fret about Gandalf being in and out of there. If we do encounter Zombie Thrain, I promise to post a picture of my foot inserted most irreverently into my mouth.

[quote=""Fingolfin""]If we do encounter Zombie Thrain, I promise to post a picture of my foot inserted most irreverently into my mouth. [/quote]

I'll pay good money to see that.

Ooo, I have a Dolby Atmos right down the street, I should go see it the third time there...

[quote=""RevAnakin""]Ooo, I have a Dolby Atmos right down the street, I should go see it the third time there...[/quote]

lol... let's just be thankful Smell-O-Vision is no longer around. Can you imagine some of those scenes where thirteen dwarves are releasing all sorts of gaseous bodily e xp ulsions into the air?

Ha! That actually reminds me of a true story. Went to see a Harry Potter movie. Got in the theater as trailers were running, and found a seat. It was in the isle reserved for wheel chairs, so there was 1 seat next to me, space for a wheel chair, and a single seat. I would have taken the single seat, but it was too far to the end of the isle.

The movie is about to start, and this "couple" walk in. Their in their 20's, young....bla bla. They are looking for a place to sit, and walk over by me. I look at them and say "I can take the single seat if you two want to sit here". The Girl says "No, I'll sit there" and she does, and her boyfriend sits next to me.... Talk about Smell o vision! He had BO, bad enough to smell it. I would have moved, but the movie started and the theater was packed. I had used the bathroom before I sat down, and the soap smell was still on my hands, so I sat and watched the movie with my finger under my nose!

[quote=""swordsicle""]Ha! That actually reminds me of a true story. Went to see a Harry Potter movie. Got in the theater as trailers were running, and found a seat. It was in the isle reserved for wheel chairs, so there was 1 seat next to me, space for a wheel chair, and a single seat. I would have taken the single seat, but it was too far to the end of the isle.

The movie is about to start, and this "couple" walk in. Their in their 20's, young....bla bla. They are looking for a place to sit, and walk over by me. I look at them and say "I can take the single seat if you two want to sit here". The Girl says "No, I'll sit there" and she does, and her boyfriend sits next to me.... Talk about Smell o vision! He had BO, bad enough to smell it. I would have moved, but the movie started and the theater was packed. I had used the bathroom before I sat down, and the soap smell was still on my hands, so I sat and watched the movie with my finger under my nose![/quote]

You'd think if the young lady was actually his girlfriend, she'd be on him to clean up his act. Unless of course she's weird like Sarah Jessica Parker, who thinks BO smells good. :p uker:

It was very odd. I thought it might have been a first date/blind date thing, and she might have not "caught wind" of the situation before it was too late. He didn't seem to mind, or put up much of a fuss when it happened, like trying to convince her it was ok for me to move, and they should sit together. I know if I went on a date, and the woman with me wanted to sit at another table during dinner...I would know something was up I swear, sometimes things happen to me and I think I'm on some candid camera show, and I'll end up on you tube or something, as I sit there with 2 fingers up my nose and my tshirt pulled over my face :p

I saw the movie again a few days ago and enjoyed it even more than I did the first time round

Azog didn't bother me as much this time round either. Also, I was wrong about Gandalf not mentioning where he gets the map and key from. He says in bag end that they were given to him by Thrain, so maybes the flashback could go into the extended edition.

Also this whole zombie Thrain thing was just a theory I had, there's no proof or hint of this presented in the films or behind the scenes blogs we've seen.

If I wasn't a total cheap-***, I'd be willing to place money on a conversation between Gandalf and either Galadriel or Elrond where he talks about entering Dol Goldur, and we see the flashback with him finding Thrain. It'll be in the next movie, I bet. At the very least we won't see a zombie Thrain.

It will be in the extended edition Blue Ray of TH1, according to Philippa Boyens. There is no zombie Thrain, just a half mad, ring-of-power ruined Thrain, close to death.

May all the gods prove that you are right, Kit.

Did she say that in an interview somewhere, Kit? Hadn't heard it. Or is that just more of your insider info?

New picture of Bolg in a slightly different pose in Dol Guldur:




Its quite alarming how much he looks like me

What's Bolg doing in Dol Guldur? Are you sure that's where he is or are you guessing?

See, this was my fear during my review of the whole Azog archplot, that we will see a tie between Azog/Bolg and the Necromancer.

I'm sorry, but Sauron really couldn't give a rat's behind about Thorin and his quest. He certainly wouldn't be dealing with lowly orcs. He cared about one thing only, and that was his search for the Ring. To have him or even the Witch-king now involved with this hunt for Thorin and his company really drives the revenge plot right off the rails.

I sincerely hope you are wrong, Lindir, and that Bolg is just posing outside some orc-hold, or better yet, that's not even from a scene in the movie and the actor just went to that particular set for the photo.

On the plus side, he actually looks like a guy in a mask and costume rather than another CGI character.

[quote=""Valkrist""]What's Bolg doing in Dol Guldur? Are you sure that's where he is or are you guessing?

See, this was my fear during my review of the whole Azog archplot, that we will see a tie between Azog/Bolg and the Necromancer.

I'm sorry, but Sauron really couldn't give a rat's behind about Thorin and his quest. He certainly wouldn't be dealing with lowly orcs. He cared about one thing only, and that was his search for the Ring. To have him or even the Witch-king now involved with this hunt for Thorin and his company really drives the revenge plot right off the rails.

I sincerely hope you are wrong, Lindir, and that Bolg is just posing outside some orc-hold, or better yet, that's not even from a scene in the movie and the actor just went to that particular set for the photo.

On the plus side, he actually looks like a guy in a mask and costume rather than another CGI character.[/quote]

It looks like Dol Guldur, but I could be wrong. I think that this side plot could actually make sense. Sauron doesn't want the Dwarves to reclaim their homeland, it would give them the courge to stand against him should he rise to power again. So by sending out Bolg and Azog to deal with it, it could help whilst he and the Nazgul search for the ring. Just an idea though.

The steps and metal pieces look similar to what was seen in the first trailer where Gandalf is looking around. Also there's a figure pack of Azog and Gandalf. So I'm guessing this is where he'll be encountered.

[quote=""Fingolfin""]Did she say that in an interview somewhere, Kit? Hadn't heard it. Or is that just more of your insider info? [/quote]

I am not allowed tom give any insider info regarding the films, but a lot of what I know has been said in interviews by the writers and actors. Phillipa said that in one of the dozen or so interviews she did last month in the press junket. I read and watched them all the same day last week, so I no idea which one it came from, but she specifically addressed a few things that did not make the final cut, and gave a ballpark running time for the length of that stuff in the extended cut.

Dear God, that is one ugly Orc. I'd say he looks a bit worse for the wear than you, Andrew.

I can see Sauron just using Azog and Bolg as a tool to dispose of the last of the heirs of Durin, but it would make no sense for them to be hanging around Dol Goldur, drawing attention to Sauron. Besides, they wouldn't hold council with Sauron and his Lieutenants; they're lowly mountain orcs.

[quote=""Fingolfin""]Dear God, that is one ugly Orc. I'd say he looks a bit worse for the wear than you, Andrew.

I can see Sauron just using Azog and Bolg as a tool to dispose of the last of the heirs of Durin, but it would make no sense for them to be hanging around Dol Goldur, drawing attention to Sauron. Besides, they wouldn't hold council with Sauron and his Lieutenants; they're lowly mountain orcs. [/quote]

I honestly never thought about Sauron not associating himself with orcs until you and Val brought it up. I always guessed that he was fine with their presence considering Mordor was full of them and they made up most of his armies.

Maybes I should educate myself more on Sauron

I guess we'll see when movie 2 comes out. I read on TORN that there should be a trailer for it by the middle of the year.

That's not Dol Guldur. I would assume that is Gundabad.

Well, Sauron is kind of a typical tyrant. He used people to get his way. Exhibit A: The Rings of Power. Rather than conquer a people by force, trick their leaders into becoming your personal slaves, deceive the people of the land by trying to appear fair, etc. He had his Orc Captains that I'm sure he conversed with, but they were his orcs of Mordor, not tribal mountain Goblins. Those were more or less just his pawns. They feared him and answered his calls, and he didn't care one way or another whether they lived or died, so long as they were taking out his enemies with them.

I saw it again in 3D last night and thought it was really... nothing too terribly distracting, just a nice added depth. I thought during some of the faster action scenes it got a bit blurry for me. I didn't really want to see the great goblin that up close! I do have to say Smaugs eye was great in 3d... like he was right there looking at me

According to the figure pack, he's the keeper of the dungeons of Dol Guldur

You've got to be effing kidding me.

Going to post this (allegedly) leaked list of Games Workshop Hobbit releases again. It is a supposed list of the figures that Games Workshop will release for its already released Hobbit miniatures game, starting around June of 2013 and continuing through 2015.

GW has said that the list is a "hoax" but I have severe doubts about the truth of that claim. There appears to be far too much detail in the listings. People familiar with GW procedures have said that the codes following the listing are packaging manufacturing codes. We also know that PL stands for plastic miniature and RE stands for resin miniature.

This list contains probable spoilers!




There are LOT of Dol Guldur figures on the list so it appears that Dol Guldur will be a major part of at least one of the movies.

Games Workshop release plan

500061211470209 Dwarves: Kili & Fili & Longbeard Archers PL a14 Sou_A 02 cc
500062630170206 Dwarves: Bombur with Kettle RE c01 Sou_A 02 cc
504018730770200 Wargs: Dire Warg RE c01 Sou_A 02 cc
505007311470201 Dol Guldur: Leaping Spiders / Shiverfang Spiders PL a14 Sou_A 02 cc
505007630170202 Dol Guldur: Spiderlings RE c01 Sou_A 02 cc

500063330170206 Dwarves: Drogo Baggins & The Tavern Maid RE c01 Sou_A 02 cc
507012730970209 White Council: Mounted Rivendell Nobles RE b09 Sou_A 02 cc

999023630110289 Frodo with Red Book RE c01 Len_B 02 pr
505000112070298 Adventure: Gandalf's Quest PL a20 Sou_A 02 507060412070297
507060412070297 Adventure: Gandalf's Quest PL a20 Sou_A 02 505000112070298
507017730170208 White Council: Lindir the Harper RE c01 Sou_A 02 cc

500071011870291 Adventure: The Battle at the East Gate PL a18 Sou_A 02 501100211870295
501100211870295 Adventure: The Battle at the East Gate PL a18 Sou_A 02 500071011870291
500071411470206 Dwarves: Dáin & Iron Hill Berserkers PL a14 Sou_A 02 cc
500071511470205 Dwarves: King Thráin & Longbeard Vanguard PL a14 Sou_A 02 cc
500071711470203 Dwarves: Young Thorin & Longbeard Mattockguard PL a14 Sou_A 02 cc
500072030170201 Dwarves: King Thrór RE c01 Sou_A 02 cc
501061111470209 Mountain Orcs: Azog & Orc Needlers PL a14 Sou_A 02 cc
501063230170206 Mountain Orcs: Azog (Wounded) RE c01 Sou_A 02 cc

506005530170208 Men of Esgaroth: King Girion RE c01 Sou_A 02 cc
504019211470206 Wargs: Grinnah & Mirkwood Werewolves PL a14 Sou_A 02 cc
508000011570292 Adventure: The Fall of Dale PL a15 Sou_A 02 506000111570293
506000111570293 Adventure: The Fall of Dale PL a15 Sou_A 02 508000011570292
508000811570201 Grey Mountain Dragons: Fire-wyrms PL a15 Sou_A 02 cc

503024630170201 Beornings: Woodmen Healer RE c01 Sou_A 02 cc
503025130170203 Beornings: Fair Daughter RE c01 Sou_A 02 cc
507020230170203 White Council: Arwen & Estel RE c01 Sou_A 02 cc
507021430170208 White Council: Galadriel (Barrel) RE c01 Sou_A 02 cc

506000112070297 Adventure: The Belltower PL a20 Sou_A 02 508020112070293
508020112070293 Adventure: The Belltower PL a20 Sou_A 02 506000112070297
508008011870299 Adventure: A Thief in the Night PL a18 Sou_A 02 500100511870293
500100511870293 Adventure: A Thief in the Night PL a18 Sou_A 02 508008011870299

506006230170208 Men of Esgaroth: Fram the Watchman RE c01 Sou_A 02 cc
506004130170205 Men of Esgaroth: The Master of Lake-Town RE c01 Sou_A 02 cc
508009912070207 Smaug the Golden PL a20 Sou_A 02 cc
508008211470206 Grey Mountain Dragons: Braga & Goldscale Worshippers PL a14 Sou_A 02 cc
508008730170205 Grey Mountain Dragons: Venomblade Assassin RE c01 Sou_A 02 cc
508008930170203 Grey Mountain Dragons: Goldscale Priest RE c01 Sou_A 02 cc

503024411570206 Beornings: Meneldor & Swiftbeak Flock PL a15 Sou_A 02 cc
506007411470209 Men of Esgaroth: Bard & Greystreak Bowmen PL a14 Sou_A 02 cc
506003211470203 Men of Esgaroth: Bain & Quickstrings Gang / Trout Guild Militia PL a14 Sou_A 02 cc
508000611570296 Adventure: Assault on the Aerie PL a15 Sou_A 02 503030111570293
503030111570293 Adventure: Assault on the Aerie PL a15 Sou_A 02 508000611570296
508000730770201 Grey Mountain Dragons: Bofur on Cold-Drake RE b07 Sou_A 02 cc
508009130170208 Grey Mountain Dragons: Dragon Thrall RE c01 Sou_A 02 cc

502065111470299 Adventure: The Clearing of Foul Roots PL a14 Sou_A 02 505040111470293
505040111470293 Adventure: The Clearing of Foul Roots PL a14 Sou_A 02 502065111470299
505016330970203 Dol Guldur: The Willowhags RE b09 Sou_A 02 cc
507010912070297 Adventure: Assault on the Barrows PL a20 Sou_A 02 505040712070298
505040712070298 Adventure: Assault on the Barrows PL a20 Sou_A 02 507010912070297

502054111470200 Silvan Elves: Legolas & Mirkwood Fire Archers PL a14 Sou_A 02 cc
503025511470205 Beornings: Gorm & Woodmen Axethrowers / Skin-Changers PL a14 Sou_A 02 cc
503025711870201 Beornings: Whisperbark / Gnarlfir PL a18 Sou_A 02 cc
504017811870297 Adventure: Clash of the Beasts PL a18 Sou_A 02 503030711870298
503030711870298 Adventure: Clash of the Beasts PL a18 Sou_A 02 504017811870297
505017830770201 Dol Guldur: Bloodwraiths RE b07 Sou_A 02 cc
505017930170277 Dol Guldur: Gwethil RE c01 Sou_A 02 li

503023811570205 Beornings: Black Bear Pack PL a15 Sou_A 02 cc
504017211470202 Wargs: Feral Wolf Pack PL a14 Sou_A 02 cc
504018111870208 Wargs: The Werebeast PL a18 Sou_A 02 cc

501084411870296 Adventure: Raid on the Wizard Hut PL a18 Sou_A 02 504030111870293
504030111870293 Adventure: Raid on the Wizard Hut PL a18 Sou_A 02 501084411870296
504016311470204 Wargs: Lagdush & Orc Wolfcloak Warriors PL a14 Sou_A 02 cc
504018211470209 Wargs: Narzug & Orc Warg-Riders PL a14 Sou_A 02 cc
504018430770203 Wargs: Dol Guldur Orc Overlords RE b07 Sou_A 02 cc
507013330170204 White Council: Radagast with Roäc & Swoop RE c01 Sou_A 02 cc
507015330170208 White Council: Galadriel (Water Steed) RE c01 Sou_A 02 cc

504018530770202 Wargs: Orc Chieftain on Warg RE c01 Sou_A 02 cc
504018930770208 Wargs: Orc Wolfbone Shaman RE c01 Sou_A 02 cc
507013130770208 White Council: The War Council RE b07 Sou_A 02 cc
507021730170205 Gandalf (Dual Sword) RE c01 Sou_A 02 cc
999023730110288 Turin, The Dragonslayer RE c01 Len_B 02 pr
500075811470293 Adventure: The Last Stand PL a14 Sou_A 02 501100511470294
501100511470294 Adventure: The Last Stand PL a14 Sou_A 02 500075811470293
500076330970202 Dwarves: Dragon Mithril Company of Dwarves RE b09 Sou_A 02 cc
502074211470290 Adventure: The Raven Hill PL a14 Sou_A 02 501100811470291
501100811470291 Adventure: The Raven Hill PL a14 Sou_A 02 502074211470290
503026230970205 Beornings: Enraged Beorn RE b09 Sou_A 02 cc
506006311470296 Adventure: Thorin's Folly PL a14 Sou_A 02 500100411470296
500100411470296 Adventure: Thorin's Folly PL a14 Sou_A 02 506006311470296
506005811470294 Adventure: The Battle of Five Armies PL a14 Sou_A 02 502090111470291
502090111470291 Adventure: The Battle of Five Armies PL a14 Sou_A 02 506005811470294
500076111870295 Adventure: Breaking the Siege PL a18 Sou_A 02 508020711870294
508020711870294 Adventure: Breaking the Siege PL a18 Sou_A 02 500076111870295
500075611470202 Dwarves: Dáin Ironfoot & Iron Hill Boar Riders PL a14 Sou_A 02 cc
501085611470200 Adventure: Revenge of the Goblin King PL a14 Sou_A 02 cc
501085711470209 Mountain Orcs: Bolg & Great Goblin Bodyguard PL a14 Sou_A 02 cc
502074530770200 Silvan Elves: Mirkwood Warhost RE b07 Sou_A 02 cc
506002311470205 Men of Esgaroth: Alfrid & Loyal Town Guard PL a14 Sou_A 02 cc
506007711470206 Men of Esgaroth: Garf & Footsoldiers of the Dale PL a14 Sou_A 02 cc
504017611470291 Adventure: Blacksoil Slope PL a14 Sou_A 02 500100111470299
500100111470299 Adventure: Blacksoil Slope PL a14 Sou_A 02 504017611470291
504019411470204 Adventure: The Final Onslaught PL a14 Sou_A 02 cc
508008411470204 Grey Mountain Dragons: Money Bags & Hired Knives PL a14 Sou_A 02 cc

501087411470206 Mountain Orcs: Armoured Hill-Trolls / Frenzied Trolls PL a14 Sou_A 02 cc
501085930170201 Mountain Orcs: Orc Stone Thrower RE c01 Sou_A 02 cc
502055430170208 Silvan Elves: King Thranduil (Battle Garb) RE c01 Sou_A 02 cc
502055630170206 Silvan Elves: Tauriel (Mounted) RE c01 Sou_A 02 cc
502055930170203 Silvan Elves: Castellan Amroth RE c01 Sou_A 02 cc
503026411870201 Adventure: The Clouds Burst PL a18 Sou_A 02 cc
505025011470208 Adventure: The Ritual PL a14 Sou_A 02 cc
505025111870205 Dol Guldur: The Necromancer / Flesh Avatar PL a18 Sou_A 02 cc
505024830770209 Dol Guldur: Narzug & Orc Summoner Coven RE b07 Sou_A 02 cc

505014611470206 Dol Guldur: Tomb Wights PL a14 Sou_A 02 cc
505015211470207 Dol Guldur: Mounted Tomb Wights PL a14 Sou_A 02 cc
507011511470204 White Council: Galadriel & Lórien Drumhooves PL a14 Sou_A 02 cc
507012511270207 White Council: Chief Aravir & Dúnedain Rangers PL a12 Sou_A 02 cc
507021630170206 White Council: Dúnedain Runecaster RE c01 Sou_A 02 cc

505026311470202 Dol Guldur: Saruman & The Ringwraiths PL a14 Sou_A 02 cc
505024611470205 Dol Guldur: Vampire Bat Swarms PL a14 Sou_A 02 cc
507010211470293 Adventure: The Haunted Tombs PL a14 Sou_A 02 502090611470296
502090611470296 Adventure: The Haunted Tombs PL a14 Sou_A 02 507010211470293
507011811470201 White Council: Elrond & Rivendell Spearguard PL a14 Sou_A 02 cc
507012011470206 White Council: Elros & Rivendell Outriders PL a14 Sou_A 02 cc

503023512070295 Adventure: The Blight Breach PL a20 Sou_A 02 505040312070291
505040312070291 Adventure: The Blight Breach PL a20 Sou_A 02 503023512070295
503025030170204 Beornings: Grimbeorn (Greataxe) RE c01 Sou_A 02 cc
507012111070207 White Council: Radagast's Chariot / Spellfire Cart PL a10 Sou_A 02 cc
508012330170206 Grey Mountain Dragons: Fell Hatchlings RE c01 Sou_A 02 cc
500076630170203 Dwarves: Dís, Mother of Kili and Fili RE c01 Sou_A 02 cc
500076830170201 Dwarves: Gimli (Stubble) RE c01 Sou_A 02 cc
500077230170204 Dwarves: Samwise Gamgee (Red Book) RE c01 Sou_A 02 cc

507010611470299 Adventure: Gollum's Escape PL a14 Sou_A 02 505040611470298
505040611470298 Adventure: Gollum's Escape PL a14 Sou_A 02 507010611470299
507020530170200 White Council: Cirdan the Shipwright RE c01 Sou_A 02 cc

I wouldn't necessarily put too much stock in descriptions of gaming pieces as they relate to what we may or may not see in a movie. A little more credible may be something on an action figure pack. More telling to me, however, than anything from the action figure/game piece market are comments made by Doug Adams, noted musicologist and oracle of soundtrack composer Howard Shore. Sharp ears picked up the Ringwraith music in the confrontation between Thorin and Azog. Adams said that was no accident, and that it bears on who Azog is working for. I think it very likely that PJ is going to tie Thorin's quest and Sauron together.

However likely or unlikely that is from a purely Tolkien perspective (i.e., would Sauron give a flying fig about this rabble of Dwarves), it is an unnecessary deviation from the story. Is it not enough that Azog would be pursuing Thorin for reasons of revenge? Revenge is one of the oldest and most reliable motives in the story-teller's playbook. You don't have to be working for a bigger bad guy to want to kick someone's butt if you feel that someone has wronged you. And again, if they felt it necessary for Thorin's Company to be pursued by Orcs throughout this new trilogy, why not by Bolg? He has to be established in the story at some point anyway, so why not stay somewhat true to the book and let Azog die prior to the main story timeframe and let Bolg be Thorin's nemesis. It has symmetry—Azog fought Thorin's grandfather, so now let his son fight Thror's (grand)son. But of course, all I'm doing is :beatdead:

Here is PJ's cameo in the movie:

http://i.imgur.com/sPdZY.gif

I'm not going to put too much stock in the GW list, although there are some mildly interesting things in there I wouldn't mind seeing in the film.


Thanks for that link, Rev. I couldn't find PJ at all in the movie!

One clue that is is fake - The new Hobbit products are posted on Games Workshop website. None of those product names are on this list, and this list includes things that are not from TH or the LOTR appendix. Not to mention that it lists products from the Battle of the Five Armies. Licensees have been shown barely anything from film 2, and nothing from film 3. A lot of the film 3 battle has yet to even be filmed, so no one is developing product for them yet. We are not even allowed to have scripts.

PJ is overly complicating a perfectly good and straightforward story with needless connections, subplots, and made up associations. As if the whole Azog thing wasn't borderline enough, now we are facing the possible spectre of the addition of Bolg as the dungeon keeper of Dol Guldur?!? And Azog is now working for the Witch-king? What is this, The Hobbit or an episode of All In The Family? What's with this need to have everything be connected somehow? Bolg can't be the Lord of Gundabad anymore because... why? Will we now find out he was the orc responsible for torturing and driving Thrain insane? How convenient and neatly things fit together in Jackson's Middle-earth.

C'mon...

Items on this leaked list are not supposed to start selling until June of 2013, which is when we will find out if it was a real leak or not. There were also a lot of Warhammer 40K items on the full list that made sense with respect to current releases and rumors we have seen.

Your other points are very good though, especially that licensees have not even seen much from film 2 and nothing from 3.

Thanks much for your input shooting down the list. There is a bunch of stuff on the 40K list that I would like to see happen...

Tim

[quote=""Nasnandos""]One clue that is is fake - The new Hobbit products are posted on Games Workshop website. None of those product names are on this list, and this list includes things that are not from TH or the LOTR appendix. Not to mention that it lists products from the Battle of the Five Armies. Licensees have been shown barely anything from film 2, and nothing from film 3. A lot of the film 3 battle has yet to even be filmed, so no one is developing product for them yet. We are not even allowed to have scripts.[/quote]

Well, I went and saw the movie in 2D yesterday and I have to say I was much more pleased with it. The jumpy aspect of the beginning, and the awkward movements of the Elves seemed much less noticeable. I still like this less than any of the LotR movies, but was much better this time around.

Did anyone notice how many overhead shots Jackson used? And I really just don't like Azog being CGI. He looks fake, and to me he proves a distraction. Why couldn't they have just used an actor like the other movies? Personally I don't think Green Screen tech can replace actors and real sets. It helps, but it shouldn't be a substitute. Although the recent webepisodes of Battlestar Galactica: Blood and Chrome prove they can be used to good effect, but that was with a high amount of lens flare like J.J. Abrams is noted for.

In other words, me hates Azoges!!! lol

Cheers,

Guy

This article perfectly describes the changes made in the film: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-cult ... =fullstory

Very cool article, Rev. It does point out most of the inconsistencies and inventions, even if he glosses over a lot of the Dol Guldur changes (there's far more 'Hollywood' invention there than just the dagger.)

Just because I like to be obstinate, I still hold that Gandalf didn't have to use the excuse that he forgot the names of the two blue wizards. There were other ways around this for PJ.

I didn't make the connection between Azog and Captain Ahab from Moby Dick, but that was a very good comparison. The more I think about it, the more I dislike Azog's archplot in the movie. It should have been Bolg, if anyone at all.

Lastly, it is spelled Gundabad, not Gundabod! Sheeesh!

[quote=""Valkrist""]Lastly, it is spelled Gundabad, not Gundabod! Sheeesh![/quote]

I would have e xp ected much better than that from the vaunted Smithsonian magazine!

[quote=""RevAnakin""]This article perfectly describes the changes made in the film: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-cult ... =fullstory[/quote]

I wonder how much of what the article's author attributes to PJ's deftness in hinting at off-limits things without crossing the line is instead just dumb luck.

i e xp ected thranduil to wear armor... but his army looks fantastic

[quote=""ecthelion""]i e xp ected thranduil to wear armor... but his army looks fantastic[/quote]

Remember he is a prissy king who commands from the rear!

To be honest, I never pictured Wood elves being that heavily armoured. It really seems counterintuitive to the type of terrain they live and fight in. Even Tolkien wrote that Oropher's lightly armoured forces from Mirkwood were heavily decimated at the Last Alliance for this very reason. Yeah, I don't deny the armour looks cool, but heaven forbid PJ actually pay attention to logic or something Tolkien wrote. :beatdead: