Re: The Hobbit

5651
[quote=""Lindir""]
In Legolas' last scene in the movie, when Thranduil tells him that his mother loved him and he says "more than anyone, more than life"? Is it life or "more than I"? Both have different implications on their relationship and I cant quite make out which one it was that was said.[/quote]

It was "more than life".
KRDS

Re: The Hobbit

5652
The cliffhanger for DOS worked really well, but, from a non film-maker's perspective of a film-maker's perspective.. Smaug was so dang awesome, I wouldn't have wanted to kill him off in the movie either.

I have only see BOFA once, and that was part of the marathon, so I didn't get that jarring, jump right into the action of Smaug attacking Lake Town like most folks did, I saw it as a fairly seamless sequence.

But I think Gandalf's capture would have made an excellent cliffhanger as well, just would have had to trim some of the Dwarves "battle" with Smaug, which did go a bit long to add the Lake-Town scene.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Re: The Hobbit

5654
How would Legolas' mother have died protecting him? Orcs could never get inside Thranduil's halls. It sounds like something they'd tie in with Thranduil's face injury, but I don't see how a fire drake or a dragon could have gotten at Legolas and his mother without killing off most of the Woodland Realm. :huh:
"Remember, the force will be with you, always."

Re: The Hobbit

5655
[quote=""Fingolfin""]How would Legolas' mother have died protecting him? Orcs could never get inside Thranduil's halls. It sounds like something they'd tie in with Thranduil's face injury, but I don't see how a fire drake or a dragon could have gotten at Legolas and his mother without killing off most of the Woodland Realm. :huh: [/quote]

Maybe they were out for a little mother/son stroll thru Middle Earth one day.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Re: The Hobbit

5658
[quote=""Olorin""]It was all PJ's invention, so you can hypothesize anything you like.[/quote]


Well, I'm pretty sure the part about Legolas even having a mother is true... ;)


"Unless you're prepared to surrender everything, don't surrender anything."

When seconds matter, it's reassuring to know that the police are only minutes away.

"Only the paranoid survive."

Re: The Hobbit

5660
Hey now, at least Tolkien was vague about how Saruman managed to create his Uruk-Hai! What was he supposed to do, show orc/men softcore porn on the big screen? Give him a little slack there! :crazy:

I see what you mean though, it is a bit bizarre, that scene. Then again, Tolkien wrote that the Dwarves think they turn into stone when they die, didn't he? :huh:
"Remember, the force will be with you, always."

Re: The Hobbit

5661
[quote=""Fingolfin""]How would Legolas' mother have died protecting him? Orcs could never get inside Thranduil's halls. It sounds like something they'd tie in with Thranduil's face injury, but I don't see how a fire drake or a dragon could have gotten at Legolas and his mother without killing off most of the Woodland Realm. :huh: [/quote]

Not in the Woodland realm. This would have happened around a thousand years earlier. When Legolas was at Gundabad he said his mother was killed there 'in another age'. The first Dwarves used to live in Gundabad. In the Second Age the dwarves of Khazad-dum allied with the elves against Sauron's orcs that were invading Eridaor. The orcs later took Gundabad from the dwarves, then the Witch-king and Angmar arose. She supposedly died in one of those battles against the forces of Angmar.

Tolkien never wrote any specifics about those battles, so the script writers were just using that background to fill in a blank to e xp lain Thranduil's wife's absence and give some background as to why Thranduil is now so cold and uncaring about the rest of Middle-earth, and why 'there is no love' in him as Tauriel puts it.

It also ties into LOTR by showing Gundabad, as well as tie to the Witchking/Angmar story thread.
Last edited by Nasnandos on Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:35 pm, edited 3 times in total.
KRDS

Re: The Hobbit

5662
Despite bungled attempts by the writers to fabricate Middle-earth history where plenty already existed and no fluff was needed (ahem... Nazgul,) I rather like the Thranduil stuff.

When hints first came out about the white jewels and they were playing on that as the reason for the hostility between the woodland elves and the dwarves of Thorin's company, I thought PJ was treading on dangerous ground: the Silmarillion. Certainly, there were echoes of the Nauglamir, the sack of Doriath, and the slaying of Thingol, all things that Thranduil would have witnessed and harboured deep resentment against dwarves for to the end of his days.

However, they neatly sidestepped all that and made the stones and the necklace be something else altogether, and reference Thranduil's wife dying at Gundabad a long time ago. This isn't to say though that Thrandui's wounds were gained at that time. Certainly dragons were more prevalent and active in those days, but it could have also been a wound he sustained much longer ago, during the Wars of Beleriand. He certainly could have been around long enough, having migrated to Greenwood the Great with his father, Oropher, though I doubt that would have been tied to his wife's death since Legolas was not that old (Legolas' actual age is unknown, but late Second to mid-Third is the speculation.)
This Space for Rent

Re: The Hobbit

5663
I wonder if we'll get a flashback to Legolas' mother? I don't know if they cast anyone though, but it would be kinda cool to see.

If PJ ever does any spin off movies, I want one to be about Thranduil. I don't know what they can cover with the material they have the rights to though, but I really wanna see more of him.
"All those moments will be lost, in time... like tears, in the rain..."

Re: The Hobbit

5664
Apparently a fan edit has been created http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film ... -film.html

I havent seen this (I don't know where to see it) but the fact that they cut out the Dol Guldur investigation has made not want to see it. Legolas and Tauriel scenes have been cut too according to the article.

To me, the Hobbit movie split was justified. We got greater e xp ansion of characters, like Thranduil, Galadriel, Bard, Legolas, etc and we got new ones like Tauriel who add to the story. I know you don't all agree with her but for me personally I thought she added an interesting dynamic to the story.

I'm going to compare the Hobbit trilogy to the final two Harry Potter movies: The producers said they split the film to create a more emotionally satisfying end. Yet over the years after seeing the movie, my satisfaction has faded and I realise now that I don't actually feel anything while watching the movie, including my favourite character's final scenes. Nobody really complained about the split though.

With the Hobbit, that emotional impact was far greater. The character's had been developed better and during those final scenes it almost, ALMOST, got to me. I didn't have an emotional breakdown over it, but I certainly felt a lot more and still do. I saw the movie again the other day and I came away feeling the same. It just felt satisfying and I'm glad we got three Hobbit movies. So what they're not better than LOTR? They were never meant to be.

Sorry for my little rant :P

I'm hoping that they'll give PJ the rights to do the Silmarillion just so we can see Orcrist being used again :P If they did ever get the rights within the next 10 years, do you think they'd bring back Cumberbatch to play Sauron in his fair form?
"All those moments will be lost, in time... like tears, in the rain..."

Re: The Hobbit

5665
I think I posted this before, but Christopher Tolkien has stated several times that he would never sell the rights Sil. In addition to his dislike for movies, he has very good reasons to never want any involvement with the movie industry ever again.

I can't remember where I read this, but one of the other Tolkien relatives said that it is in CT's will that the rights are never to be sold, something that will be in effect for 70-80 years after his death as I recall.

Of course, we can always hope someone changes their mind about that. If it does happen, I hope a different director and writing crew tackle that series of films. I don't think it necessarily needs to be done in the same style as the TH and LOTR, as it is not written in either of those styles. I imagine a much harder, more serious edge to it. More adult and less (or none) of the whimsical silliness and comic relief of TH and LOTR.
Last edited by Nasnandos on Wed Jan 21, 2015 3:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
KRDS

Re: The Hobbit

5666
[quote=""Lindir""]I wonder if we'll get a flashback to Legolas' mother? I don't know if they cast anyone though, but it would be kinda cool to see.
[/quote]

They did not film any flashback scenes. Phillipa Boyens was talking about Thranduil's mother in a radio interview last month and talked about Thranduil's wife dying defending her son, but said none of that would be in the movie. I assume she was referring to the EE.

The actors were told this background info, but it was never intended to be anything more than a reference for Thranduil's motives. Evangeline Lilly said she was told Tauriel's parents were killed by Orc's.
KRDS

Re: The Hobbit

5667
[quote=""Nasnandos""]
I can't remember where I read this, but one of the other Tolkien relatives said that it is in CT's will that the rights are never to be sold, something that will be in effect for 70-80 years after his death as I recall.[/quote]

Is that legal? If thats the case, in theory, couldnt works just be willed forever after they are passed from generation to generation?

[quote=""Nasnandos""]
Of course, we can always hope someone changes their mind about that. If it does happen, I hope a different director and writing crew tackle that series of films. I don't think it necessarily needs to be done in the same style as the TH and LOTR, as it is not written in either of those styles. I imagine a much harder, more serious edge to it. More adult and less (or none) of the whimsical silliness and comic relief of TH and LOTR.[/quote]

I agree, nothing against PJ, but I think if the Sil was ever filmed it should be an HBO type series, with each sub story written for a season or so. That would be awesome.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Re: The Hobbit

5668
[quote=""Lindir""]
I'm hoping that they'll give PJ the rights to do the Silmarillion just so we can see Orcrist being used again :P If they did ever get the rights within the next 10 years, do you think they'd bring back Cumberbatch to play Sauron in his fair form?[/quote]
I would love for Cumberbatch to play Sauron in his fair form.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Re: The Hobbit

5669
[quote=""BladeCollector""]Is that legal? If thats the case, in theory, couldnt works just be willed forever after they are passed from generation to generation?
[/quote]
I don't know if there are any specific restrictions in the UK with regards to wills, but in general you can specify anything you want in your will. It is up to the person you name as executor to carry out your wishes.

[quote=""BladeCollector""]
I agree, nothing against PJ, but I think if the Sil was ever filmed it should be an HBO type series, with each sub story written for a season or so. That would be awesome.[/quote]
A Game of Thrones or Rome style series is what I had in mind. I don't think it can happen in my lifetime though.

I e xp ect if anything more is done in the film arena, it will be mined from the LOTR appendices. There are numerous prequel films that could be made. They could do a prequel film about the War of The Ring, or The Fall of Numenor, with Sauron in his fair form. Or a film about the Rangers or the North. Even one about the rise of Angmar, with the Witch-king, Isildur, leading into the Dunedain, et cetera.
Last edited by Nasnandos on Wed Jan 21, 2015 3:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
KRDS

Re: The Hobbit

5670
A series about Numenor and it's fall would be perfect for HBO.

All the backstabbing and betrayal and darkness that set in is perfect fodder for drama, and a natural successor to GoT in a couple years.
#UC1264 Sting, #UC1300 Sting Scabbard, #UC1298 Hadhafang, #UC1372WGNB Fighting Knives of Legolas, UC1381LTNB Knives of Legolas Scabbards, #UC1371WGBN Knife of Strider, #UC-1370ABNB Herugrim

Re: The Hobbit

5671
[quote=""Nasnandos""]I don't know if there are any specific restrictions in the UK with regards to wills, but in general you can specify anything you want in your will. It is up to the person you name as executor to carry out your wishes..[/quote]

The executor is legally bound to execute the will. If there is any question at all concerning the execution the matter will likely end up in court.
If the will is in order, the court will ensure the terms of the will are honored.
And if it is ascertained that the executor didn't perform his duty because he disagreed with the terms of the will, or simply out of sloth, he is in serious legal trouble.

Regarding books and music (i.e. intellectual property) there is some specified period of time that has to elapse and then the work enters the public domain. But it is usually a long time after the person who has control of it dies, which in this case is not JRRT but CT.

Once it is the public domain anyone can do anything they want to it and with it.
Ever hear of "Pride and Prejudice and Zombies"?
Even with serious dramatizations of Austen's works, or say, Conan Doyle's stories, no permissions are needed.

It is also why Fin is free to play Hummel's trumpet concerto (if he CAN play it ;) ) without getting permission from the "Hummel estate".
Last edited by Deimos on Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:32 am, edited 2 times in total.


"Unless you're prepared to surrender everything, don't surrender anything."

When seconds matter, it's reassuring to know that the police are only minutes away.

"Only the paranoid survive."

Re: The Hobbit

5672
[quote=""Lindir""]Apparently a fan edit has been created http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film ... -film.html

I havent seen this (I don't know where to see it) but the fact that they cut out the Dol Guldur investigation has made not want to see it. Legolas and Tauriel scenes have been cut too according to the article. [/quote]


Here is more detail on this edit: https://tolkieneditor.wordpress.com/

The Hobbit: The Tolkien Edit



I have recut Peter Jackson?s Hobbit trilogy into a single 4-hour film

January 13, 2015 tolkieneditor463 Comments
Image
Let me start by saying that I enjoy many aspects of Peter Jackson?s Hobbit trilogy. Overall, however, I felt that the story was spoiled by an interminable running time, unengaging plot tangents and constant narrative filibustering. What especially saddened me was how Bilbo (the supposed protagonist of the story) was rendered absent for large portions of the final two films. Back in 2012, I had high hopes of adding The Hobbit to my annual Lord of the Rings marathon, but in its current bloated format, I simply cannot see that happening.


So, over the weekend, I decided to condense all three installments (An Une xp ected Journey, The Desolation of Smaug and The Battle of the Five Armies) into a single 4-hour feature that more closely resembled Tolkien?s original novel. Well, okay, it?s closer to 4.5 hours, but those are some long-*** credits! This new version was achieved through a series of major and minor cuts, detailed below:
  • The investigation of Dol Guldor has been completely excised, including the appearances of Radagast, Saruman and Galadriel. This was the most obvious cut, and the easiest to carry out (a testament to its irrelevance to the main narrative). Like the novel, Gandalf abruptly disappears on the borders of Mirkwood, and then reappears at the siege of the Lonely Mountain with tidings of an orc army.
  • The Tauriel-Legolas-Kili love triangle has also been removed. Indeed, Tauriel is no longer a character in the film, and Legolas only gets a brief cameo during the Mirkwood arrest. This was the next clear candidate for elimination, given how little plot value and personality these two woodland sprites added to the story. Dwarves are way more fun to hang out with anyway. :P
  • The Pale Orc subplot is vastly trimmed down. Azog is obviously still leading the attack on the Lonely Mountain at the end, but he does not appear in the film until after the company escapes the goblin tunnels (suggesting that the slaying of the Great Goblin is a factor in their vendetta, as it was in the novel).
  • Several of the Laketown scenes have been cut, such as Bard?s imprisonment and the superfluous orc raid. However, I?ve still left quite a bit of this story-thread intact, since I felt it succeeded in getting the audience to care about the down-beaten fisherfolk and the struggles of Bard to protect them.
  • The prelude with old Bilbo is gone. As with the novel, I find the film works better if the scope starts out small (in a cosy hobbit hole), and then grows organically as Bilbo ventures out into the big, scary world. It is far more elegant to first learn about Smaug from the dwarves? haunting ballad (rather than a bombastic CGI sequence). The prelude also undermines the real-and-present stakes of the story by framing it as one big flashback.
  • Several of the orc skirmishes have been cut. I felt that the Battle of the Five Armies provided more than enough orc mayhem. If you pack in too much before then, they just become monotonous, and it lessons their menace in the audience?s mind. I was tempted to leave in the very first Azog confrontation (since it resembles a chapter from the novel), but decided to cut it for a variety of reasons. Specifically, I found it tonally jarring to jump from the emotional crescendo of Thorin being saved by Bilbo (and the sense of safety the company feels after being rescued by the eagles), straight back into another chase sequence. Plus, I think the film works better if Bilbo is still trying to earn Thorin?s respect the entire journey, as he was in the novel. Not to mention the absurdity of Bilbo suddenly turning into John McClane with a sword!
  • Several of the action scenes have been tightened up, such as the barrel-ride, the fight between Smaug and the dwarves (no molten gold in this version), and the Battle of the Five Armies. Though, it should be noted that Bilbo?s key scenes?the encounter with Gollum, the battle against the Mirkwood spiders, and the conversation with Smaug?have not been tampered with, since they proved to be excellent adaptions (in no small part due to Freeman?s performance), and serve to refocus the film on Bilbo?s arc.
  • A lot of filler scenes have been cut as well. These are usually harder to spot (and I?ve probably missed a couple), but once they?re gone, you?ll completely forget that they ever existed. For example, the 4-minute scene where Bard buys some fish and the dwarves gather up his pay.
I used 720?576 MP4s for the recut. The resolution is slightly reduced after a few e xp orts, but it?s still comparable to DVD quality. Here are some time-stamped screenshots, if anyone wants a better impression:
My main goals in undertaking this edit were to re-centre the story on Bilbo, and to have the narrative move at a much brisker pace (though not so fast that the audience lost grasp of what was going on). Creating smooth transitions between scenes was of particular importance in this regard. I even reordered a few moments in the film to make it flow better. The toughest parts to edit were the barrel-ride and the fight on Ravenhill (since Legolas and Tauriel kept bursting in with their gymnastics routine). If you have any further questions over what was taken out and what was left in, please post them in the comment?s section.

I hope you enjoy it! Oh, by the way, if you?d like to know how to actually watch the movie, simply left-click the 25th full stop/period in this post. Or, to download it it to your computer, right-click and ?save link as?. Apologies for being overly-cautious, but the woods are full of trolls, and sometimes you must mask your presence with a magic ring. ;)
You can also torrent the movie here and here (be sure to click the ?Magnet? link to add the file to your BitTorrent client; don?t download anything from the site unless it ends in .torrent). This was a labour of love, so please share and seed. And feel free to reupload the video and post your own links wherever you want.
I should also point out that the file I?m sharing at the moment is the lower-resolution 2GB cut. It?s still perfectly serviceable; however, if the torrent gets strong enough, I?m happy to upload the full-resolution 6GB cut. I just didn?t want to start with too big a file, lest people snub it out of the gate.
?May the hair on your toes never fall out.?
TolkienEditor :)
MC Sting, MC Samwise, MC Glamdring with scabbard, Sting and Scabbard, Legolas Knives and Scabbards, Hadhafang Sword of Arwen, Gondor Shield, Gimli Battle Axe, Gimli Bearded Axe, Gimli Walking Axe, Witchking Sword, Sword of the Ringwraiths, Witchking Dagger, Uruk Hai Scimitar

Re: The Hobbit

5673
Oh well, the fan edits have already started. And at lower than DVD quality no less. Uhg.

[quote=""Deimos""]
Regarding books and music (i.e. intellectual property) there is some specified period of time that has to elapse and then the work enters the public domain. But it is usually a long time after the person who has control of it dies, which in this case is not JRRT but CT.
[/quote]

I don't know how long it is under UK law, but over here is it 70 years after the copyright owner dies. That's why I said I would probably not see an adaptation of anything from Sil 'in my lifetime' :)
KRDS

Re: The Hobbit

5674
[quote=""Nasnandos""]Oh well, the fan edits have already started. And at lower than DVD quality no less. Uhg.[/quote]

He does say he will upload a higher quality version (6GB) if there is "demand".
MC Sting, MC Samwise, MC Glamdring with scabbard, Sting and Scabbard, Legolas Knives and Scabbards, Hadhafang Sword of Arwen, Gondor Shield, Gimli Battle Axe, Gimli Bearded Axe, Gimli Walking Axe, Witchking Sword, Sword of the Ringwraiths, Witchking Dagger, Uruk Hai Scimitar

Re: The Hobbit

5676
...How is that not grossly illegal? Distributing a film, even diced up, is pretty severe copyright infringement...I e xp ect WB to swoop down on this. They've done so in the past.

It's an interesting concept, cutting the film down to four hours, but I think you could argue that any film could be cut based on personal preference. Generally speaking, I'm not a fan of trimming away what the artist, in this case PJ, intended. Just my personal feelings, though. I know many folks felt that TH was bloated. I disagree, but to each their own.

Re: The Hobbit

5678
Well, I felt it was padded, but I'd have a hard time deciding what to trim, and certainly would not trim it anywhere nearly as severely as that person did. The White Council/Dol Guldur stuff, though rather bollixed up, totally belonged in the movie. And trite though the Kili/Tauriel love aspect was, the movie needed something to develop the Dwarves as individual characters. Much though we love the book, Tolkien did little more to distinguish them from each other than give them different colored hoods, LOL, and to keep reminding us how fat Bombur was.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: The Hobbit

5679
This guy is violating some hefty laws but anywho... all he did was make as close to the book as possible with what was filmed.

The additions PJ added, some where way out in left field, yes, but he put so much more depth and meat to the story. Not adapting Dol Guldor, it may not have been in the book because of Bilbos perspective, but it happened. The battle of the five armies continued after Bilbo got knocked out. How would that have been on screen, Bilbo gets knocked out and then we fade out, fade back in and the battle is over.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Re: The Hobbit

5680
[quote=""Deimos""]
It is also why Fin is free to play Hummel's trumpet concerto (if he CAN play it ;) ) without getting permission from the "Hummel estate".[/quote]

Funny you say that! :laugh: I almost wound up playing the Hummel! I'll be playing the Neruda concerto instead in a few weeks. :thumbs_up Worth a listen, especially Tine Thing Helseth's recording. Absolutely spot on!


That fan edit is definitely going to get swooped up and spit out by WB very soon. I'm no copyright lawyer but I'm fairly certain that that's illegal on several levels. :crazy:
"Remember, the force will be with you, always."

Re: The Hobbit

5681
[quote=""BladeCollector""] The battle of the five armies continued after Bilbo got knocked out. How would that have been on screen, Bilbo gets knocked out and then we fade out, fade back in and the battle is over.[/quote]

It would be exactly like the big battle of the end of the first season of Game of Thrones, where Tyrion gets knocked out early on and when he comes to the battle is over.
Last edited by Olorin on Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: The Hobbit

5683
[quote=""Nasnandos""]Bilbo was told about everything that happened afterwards, so you either show it happen, show it in flashbacks as people tell him what happened, or just have the characters tell him what happened with no visuals. I would rather see it happen as it happened.[/quote]

Agree! Sometimes changes are for the better.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Re: The Hobbit

5684
I watched an hour of this last night, by the way. It's juts a typical poorly done, hack up fan edit. It starts with the film title, then Bilbo sitting on his bench as "60 years earlier" comes on screen, which makes no sense without the preceding scene of Bilbo and Frodo. There was plenty of footage of Bilbo sitting on the bench to use as a replacement for the first shot.

Things were cut out that were actually in the book, then other non book things were left in that often don't fit and seem out of context without the scenes that were cut. Why show Smaug bursting out of the gate of Erebor covered in gold, when the drowning in gold scene was cut? Just cut to him already in the air as Bilbo runs out behind him. Neither one makes for a good edit, but the latter is better than the former. In some cases a cut made the preceding and following scenes nonsensical, like having Thorin magically go from having Thror's sword to having Orcrist.

Scenes from the EE that were from the book, like the additional scenes of Beorn, or the rest of the Mirkwood scenes prior to the spider capture, are not here, yet other non book things that could have been trimmed were left in.

To do a proper short edit requires some creative restructuring, not just chopping certain scenes out here and there, and I think a little more than a weekend should have been spent doing it.
Last edited by Nasnandos on Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
KRDS

Re: The Hobbit

5685
[quote=""Nasnandos""]I watched an hour of this last night, by the way. It's juts a typical poorly done, hack up fan edit. It starts with the film title, then Bilbo sitting on his bench as "60 years earlier" comes on screen, which makes no sense without the preceding scene of Bilbo and Frodo. There was plenty of footage of Bilbo sitting on the bech to use as a replacement for the first shot.

Things were cut out that were actually in the book, then other non book things were left in that often don't fit and seem out of context without the scenes that were cut. In some cases a cut made the preceding and following scenes nonsensical. Scenes from the EE that were from the book, like the additional scenes of Beorn, or the rest of the Mirkwood scenes prior to the spider capture, are not here, yet other non book things that could have been trimmed were left in.

To do a proper short edit requires some creative restructuring, not just chopping certain scenes out here and there, and I think a little more than a weekend should have been spent doing it.[/quote]

Are you saying not everyone with off the shelf movie editing software can re-cut a movie better than the original ;)
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Re: The Hobbit

5686
The off the shelf software is actually rather good these days. Have you seen what Harmy did with his restored version of Star Wars?

There are several basic video editing programs that are more than enough to do this type of trim editing. It takes a bit of editing and story structure skill to know what to edit and what to rearrange to make a movie flow well though :)
KRDS

Re: The Hobbit

5688
To recut something like this requires more than one person. A second set of eyes and a differing opinion can make or break a project. A lot of hate gets heaped on PJ, but he had plenty of folks to bounce ideas off of. Get a few fans together, a mix of people who have read the book and haven't and people who like the book and some who didn't and people who liked the films and didn't. Then you'll get an interesting cut, rather than just one person's opinion and efforts.

Re: The Hobbit

5689
I remember back when I was a teenager I made a re-cut version of Return of the Jedi. I was into making short 8mm films back then, and had a little editing setup of two stereo Betamax VCRs and a VHS.

I removed every scene of an Ewok and all the burp and fart jokes. I thought it came out great. My friends who saw it were not as enthused. Watching the cut I made again over the next few years I realized how badly the edits worked, and how nonsensical the story became. In that case there really was no way to custom edit and salvage that film, but I learned that simply hacking stuff out does not work.
KRDS

Re: The Hobbit

5690
Was it just me or did anyone else miss that Bilbo never caught his infamous cold while in Laketown?

I don't think we needed any more sneezing and snot jokes (the trolls were bad enough,) or yet another running gag, but I always found that such an endearing part of the book, and then there's the unforgettable line: "Thag you very buch."

Just a little detail I missed seeing. :(
This Space for Rent

Re: The Hobbit

5691
[quote=""Valkrist""]Was it just me or did anyone else miss that Bilbo never caught his infamous cold while in Laketown?

I don't think we needed any more sneezing and snot jokes (the trolls were bad enough,) or yet another running gag, but I always found that such an endearing part of the book, and then there's the unforgettable line: "Thag you very buch."

Just a little detail I missed seeing. :( [/quote]

It was there. :) Maybe not the whole cold but I remember it was when they were passing out blankets after coming up from the toilet. Bilbo got his wrapped around and he said the line slightly stuffy. It was quiet, but it was there. :)

Re: The Hobbit

5692
[quote=""Arwyniel""]It was there. :) Maybe not the whole cold but I remember it was when they were passing out blankets after coming up from the toilet. Bilbo got his wrapped around and he said the line slightly stuffy. It was quiet, but it was there. :) [/quote]

Man, I totally missed that, but then that's how I would want it to be - a subtle nod to the book, rather than having it become something that they kept hitting you over the head with for cheap laughs.

That's the beauty of these movies, that you can keep discovering the little things you missed with subsquent viewings. :)
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Re: The Hobbit

5693
I really missed the "thag you very buch" scene too; it's one of my favorite parts from the book. If they used the line in conjunction with the toilet seen, then that was a completely different context from the book. In the book, it was basically a welcome banquet and when Bilbo was called upon to give remarks all he could say was thag you very buch.

Still, I suppose altered context is better than completely absent. I'm going to have to pull out my copy of DOS and check for it now.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: The Hobbit

5694
One other thing I really missed, though I understand completely why it was excluded, was "'Ere, 'oo are you?" This was what the troll's purse said when Bilbo tried to steal it out of the troll's pocket. It was a very charming moment in a children's book, but I will concede that to a modern film audience the idea that Bilbo would try to steal from the troll's pocket to prove his mettle as a burglar would probably be too much to swallow. So I definitely understand why PJ cooked up an alternate encounter with the trolls. I just wish it hadn't leaned so heavy on body/bodily function humor. PJ, the world's tallest four year old.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: The Hobbit

5695
Just like the talking animals, the talking purse had to go. That would have been extremely tough to include within the established milieu, where magic of any sort was an extremely rare thing and confined to a few powerful individuals and objects. To have a mere coinpurse suddenly speak would have been very awkward and out of place. :huh:
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Re: The Hobbit

5696
It might have seemed out of place, but I think the illogic of having Bilbo do something so risky for absolutely no good reason would have been perceived as idiocy. The need to try to rescue their ponies would make a lot more sense to most people, I think.

Now, if Galadriel's purse talked, well, that'd be super. :evil:
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: The Hobbit

5697
[quote=""Valkrist""]Was it just me or did anyone else miss that Bilbo never caught his infamous cold while in Laketown?

I don't think we needed any more sneezing and snot jokes (the trolls were bad enough,) or yet another running gag, but I always found that such an endearing part of the book, and then there's the unforgettable line: "Thag you very buch."

Just a little detail I missed seeing. :( [/quote]

Funny that we all love that scene so much! Every time I come down with a cold I think of that line. :crazy: I totally missed it, but I do really love that part. Ill have to go back and check to find it in the movie. :)
"Remember, the force will be with you, always."

Re: The Hobbit

5699
That's disappointing to hear, Olorin. Seems like they tried to make an attempt at a homage to that bit in the book, only to then screw it up by not havimg Freeman say the line properly. Either that or they felt that if he did say it like in the book, then they would have to play up the fact that he actually caught a bad cold, so they couldn't be bothered. Kinda like a nod more than a homage then. :(
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