Ultimate Collectors' Forums

It was Cloaks and Daggers. Someone must have just slipped the wrong name!

Say what now?

This from our friends at Theonering.net in their summary of Tolkien related events at San Diego CC

We saved the biggest and most conjecture filled news for last. But first, let’s see if you were paying attention to a certain line of dialogue in The Hobbit: The Battle of Five Armies. After the battle has wound down and we see how it plays out for the Elves, Legolas has decided that he is going to leave Mirkwood. Thranduil does not try to stop him, but does mention he should look up a Ranger named Strider of the Dunedain. The Appendixes, for which the movie rights still exist, include details of Strider riding off with the likes of Elladan and Elrohir and some other Rangers and winds up traveling to both Rohan and Gondor, among other places far and wide using the name Thorongil. This data, which is known to be available in the Appendixes, coupled with some rather interesting whispers to come out of some reliable realms indicate that there is some great interest in continuing stories set in Middle-earth. Just ask there will be more Potterverse stories based on the Book of Creatures, we may well have an expansion to the Middle-earth Cinematic Universe (known as MeCU, cause any Tolkien fan worth his or her salt knows that the ‘e’ in earth is lower case). So the line spoken by Thranduil about sending Legolas to find this young Dunedain Ranger, and some of the other little lines sprinkled throughout LOTR about Aragorn’s past traveling through Rohan and Gondor may well be in the works. But as always, this is all conjecture and rumor at the moment, until the time comes when it is no longer just secret kept secret and safe.


BIG conjecture...but it has to come from somewhere.

The MeCU... ugh.

Is it wrong to wish this rumour dies a quick death?

No offense to fans of these movies, of which I consider myself a part, but enough is enough, PJ and Warner. Quit while you're ahead and resist the temptation to milk this material and run it into the ground in a blind quest for more dollars. At least with The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit, there were complete books to work with from cover to cover. Even so, PJ managed to mangle some of the lore beyond recognition, and to introduce inventions of his own that were more of a detriment to the story than adding anything of substantial value. Do we really want him to run roughshod all over the appendices and use questionable creative license over the enormous amount of blank space between those entries? I mean, there's a lot missing details in there, and I personally shudder at how much of that is going to be filled out with banal dialogue, contrived situations, gravity-defying stunts (because there will be zillions of elves no matter what - or one Legolas,) loads of cheesy romance, and groan-inducing lore violations.

Call me prematurely pessimistic on all this, should it even pan out, but much that I found distasteful to my inner-Tolkien already reared its ugly head in this last trilogy. The appendices are a very tempting opportunity for PJ to fully unleash his brand of childish humour and over the top action without being constrained very much by a plot that is not flexible to be played with. Think about how much of the plot of The Hobbit was expanded and sidetracked in the movies, multiply that by a factor of ten, and that's what this MeCU will offer.

Man, even the acronym leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Please, just no.

Valkrist wrote: Is it wrong to wish this rumour dies a quick death?
.... PJ managed to mangle some of the [Hobbit] lore beyond recognition, and to introduce inventions of his own that were more of a detriment to the story than adding anything of substantial value. Do we really want him to run roughshod all over the appendices and use questionable creative license over the enormous amount of blank space between those entries?
... Think about how much of the plot of The Hobbit was expanded and sidetracked in the movies, multiply that by a factor of ten...
Please, just no.

I have to agree.
Just thinking about the possibility makes me extremely nervous...and queasy.

This is just a slight expansion of the reiteration of the bridge movie idea. They originally talked about doing two movies, the hobbit movie on the bridge movie, with the bridge movie being based on the appendices to fill in the gaps between the hobbit and the Lord of the rings. Instead they decided to do two, later three, hobbit movies. But as the hobbit trilogy was coming to a conclusion, it started to be speculated that perhaps they would still do a movie based on the appendices. This latest rumor is just a more fleshed out version.

I've always been in favor of a bridge movie or mini series, but the concept of a "MeCU" does make me cringe and twitch violently. This is not Marvel, where a new writer can come in and write up a scenario where two beloved heroes kill each other or something else more bizzare. This is a very carefully built world, down to the bits and pieces of each language. I don't want ton see it cheapened like that any more than the next reader of Tolkien. PJ needs a reality check; more Middle-earth is good, but any cheapened, slicked up, commercialised ME...well, rather have none at all. The Hobbit bordered on a commercial grab, and I could live with it because I didn't expect magic like LotR. But the grassroots, realistic approach and love of the source and pride in their work was what brought LotR to life. A whole "cinematic universe" cannot sustain that kind of "boutique" film making. It would be disastrous.

Just make some TV episodes of Aragorn and some elves killing orcs in Gondor and call it a wrap. Leave the sub plots to unnamed characters and for God's sake quit while you're ahead.

I remain cautiously optimistic about this. I don't think it really requires any site to post about it; WB, MGM, New Line, etc. would be stupid to not at least consider doing further work in the franchise. The Hobbit might've been below the standards of die-hard Tolkien fans, but it still made money. WB (who is making the further films in the Potter-verse) likely doesn't care much about quality, they care about the cash they can make.

But it's very unlikely that Peter Jackson would come back to direct anything. He would, at best, be a name in the credits to give weight to the list of producers. I don't think we'd see anything on TV given that WB is not the best sharer, so it'd end up on a standard network. And WB has proven that they're going on face-recognition given all the actors from LOTR they shoehorned into The Hobbit.

So I remain optimistic. Depending on who they got to run any other films in Middle Earth, it could be great. But given their track record now, I, like Val, would like to see this rumor die. WB keeps throwing money and bodies at DC properties and gets it wrong more often than they get it right.

That idea was already discussed and rejected by Jackson and Co. prior to The Hobbit. This is just rumor/speculation someone created based on that line of dialogue in BOFA, which was simply meant as one of the many links bridging Hobbit to LOTR, - specifically BOFA to FOTR in this case, if you watch all 6 in a row.

I'm not against making a stand alone movie based on some of the story material in the appendices, but there is not enough of that story fleshed out in the appendices. Besides the fact that Viggo now looks much older that he did in FOTR, when he would need to look younger than he did in FOTR.

Oh you can bet they will be foaming at the mouth at the chance to recast Aragorn with the latest Hollywood hunk of the month. Viggo wouldn't even be considered at this point in the game.

Chris Pratt, anyone? He's already been mentioned as a possible new Indiana Jones, and I suspect that if he gets that he could also be a new Han Solo, so giving the thinking prevalent in Hollywood, Aragorn can't be far behind.

Valkrist wrote:Oh you can bet they will be foaming at the mouth at the chance to recast Aragon with the latest Hollywood hunk of the month. Viggo wouldn't even be considered at this point in the game.

I doubt PJ would consider anyone but Viggo in that role, but I don't think he or anyone at WB are even contemplating this idea at all, so it is moot.

While I could never imagine someone other than Viggo stepping into Aragorn's boots, it'd be interesting to see a fresh take on Middle Earth. I'd be hard pressed to say whether Ian Holm or Martin Freeman was the better Bilbo, and I'd love to be given the same problem again.

Much like all of the discussion for 10+ years about The Hobbit between Return of the King and An Unexpected Journey, I'll take any chatter on future films with a grain of salt. I expect the rumors will fly around indefinitely, whether there is any movement on it or not. It's always going to be one of those potential fruits for WB to pick. Look at Star Wars that goes decades between attempts, but there has always been chatter of it coming back even when there was no real intent.

Olorin wrote:Chris Pratt, anyone? He's already been mentioned as a possible new Indiana Jones, and I suspect that if he gets that he could also be a new Han Solo, so giving the thinking prevalent in Hollywood, Aragorn can't be far behind.

Please, no. Chris Pratt is fast becoming the new Benedict Cumberbatch. Hollywood doesn't seem to understand that audiences can become worn out on one actor when he's thrown into just about anything within the space of a couple of years. Yes, Harrison Ford got lucky, but movies did take considerable more time to film and produce back in his day. Now they are churning out movies with the same actor in them at the rate of three per year. PJ hit the jackpot casting relatively low-key actors in LOTR and I would love to see it remain that way. Like GoT, ME is not the proper vehicle for massive star power, where an actor's fame and baggage overshadows the setting and story.

Nasnandos wrote:I doubt PJ would consider anyone but Viggo in that role, but I don't think he or anyone at WB are even contemplating this idea at all, so it is moot.

May Eru be listening to you very closely, Kit.

On the subject of conjectures, I just stumbled across this fan made Silmarillion trailer. I must admit that, despite the B movie scenes and the occasional elf name coupled with a man who has a beard, my mouth did water a little at the thought of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RT9UcZPT2DU

The beginning was kinda cool, with the voiceover and the nebulas forming the shapes of the Ainur (which I think was taken from either Immortals or Clash of the Titans,) but the whole thing degenerated really fast into a laughable hodge-podge of dozens of clips from different movies and even video game cutscenes. Hopefully no one takes this seriously.

Not I! It just popped up in a related video, and I had never seen one before, and it made me think about what it would be like to see it all on screen. I actually found a couple others after a search, but they were all bad trailer music overdubbed onto slow-motion clips from LotR.

Parts of it, especially the beginning, were cool, and made me think how exciting a Silmarillion movie might be. But most of it made me think of how very badly off track it would probably go. Not that we're likely to see a Silmarillion movie anyway.

You know, I've been watching The Fellowship of the Ring this week while doing my morning exercise, and I just finished it today. There are very few things that make me as emotionally satisfied as watching the trilogy after a long while of not having seen it. No matter what antics he pulls, I will always be indebted to Peter Jackson for that, if nothing else. I think I had forgotten that magic, just a little bit.

He did get a lot of things right, and capture a lot of magic. We sometimes need to remind ourselves that the "unfilmable" work turned out better than there was any reasonable expectation it could.

Most definitely. I'll always cherish those movies, warts and all. I don't feel anywhere near the same with the Hobbit movies, which were far too self-indulgent and full of things that made me groan one too many times. It's sad and disappointing on a personal level because I cherish and love the two books equally, despite the lighter tone of one of them. Not so with the movies.

I just got an email from WB about the dates in October for the theatrical run of the extended movies. The R rating was rumored weeks ago, but it is confirmed that the BOFA EE will indeed have an R rating.

I don't suppose you've heard when the last EE will hit store shelves? I'm dying to know what goodie Weta will include this time.

The physical disks will be ins stores November 17th. The download version I think is a few weeks earlier.

And so far, the 3-D version is an Amazon exclusive.

Valkrist wrote:I don't suppose you've heard when the last EE will hit store shelves? I'm dying to know what goodie Weta will include this time.

Someone over at FoU posted this:

Nasnandos wrote:I just got an email from WB about the dates in October for the theatrical run of the extended movies. The R rating was rumored weeks ago, but it is confirmed that the BOFA EE will indeed have an R rating.

Any idea why?

Typical MPAA nonsense. He had to remove a couple of Orc killings from BOFA for the theatrical version to avoid an R. He put them back in. It's all fantasy violence, but I think because there were three primary, non Orc characters, shown dying on screen, they are probably looking at all the rest of the on screen killings and think he is over his quota to be PG13. A fourth non Orc character dies in the EE too, unless they left that scene out again.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't all five previous middle earth EEs technically unrated? As in, they never submitted the extended cuts to the ratings board? Well, I guess toanswer my own question, they must have had to at some point, since they all did get at least one theatrical exhibition.

Anyway, if that statue of Gandalf and Bilbo is the goody that comes with the special edition, that will be great, especially if they did a good job painting it!

An R rating seems like overkill for fantasy violence, even if there is a lot of killings. There were some really intense violence/battle scenes with scary non-family friendly monsters in LotR and they never went so far as to rate them R.

EE trailer showing a few restored scenes from BOFA. It's all action stuff though. No funeral or dailogue scenes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awxBUbZQVKE

I see one of the cut Bard Laketown roof scenes, more of Legolas' bat ride, Dwarven army on rams, the chariot river chase, and the Dwarven ballistas with the spinning whip tails taking out the Elven arrow volley. Hopefully we will get to see the rest of the Legolas and Bolg chase scene that was begun at the end of TDOS. None of that made the theatrical cut of BOFA either. Legolas just shows up again after Laketown was burned.

Also, for anyone curious, the EE versions of the Hobbit trilogy coming to theaters in October will be shown in normal 2D. No 3D or 3D HFR.

So basically no character or story scenes, just more action. Great. Yes, I know this is just the trailer and there will be more stuff in there, but considering PJ is always claiming the EE versions are for the real fans, I do wonder why they then market these releases by shovelling more dying cgi orcs our way. An extra glimpse of Beorn or a quiet moment at Thorin's funeral could really add more depth to these things.

Pass.... :-p :-p :-p

There will be lots of new character scenes in the EE...just not in that trailer. Looks WB was in action spectacle mode when they cut that together.

Considering it was for one of those "Fathom Events," I'm not at all surprised it was totally action-oriented.

I'm glad they didn't show any of the character moments in the trailer. I want to enjoy those when I watch the EE. The trailer for the event wasnt very interesting anyway.

Really looking forward to release of the EE and also the final book in weta's series about The Hobbit.

Last night I was reading a review of Mad Max Fury Road, and the review really praised the practical, hands-on no CGI look of the movie, as well as the perceived same look for the upcoming Star Wars movie, and contrasted them with movies that are all CGI. Then a bit later I saw the Fathom Event trailer for the Hobbit trilogy. Enough said.

I don't know where that myth came from, but there was tons of CGI in Mad Max, over 2000 effects shots created. They did film a lot of the vehicle stunts, but practically every action shot, which is 90% of he movie, was chock full of CGI and digital image work - digital sets, backgrounds, vehicles and objects, explosions, even people in the foreground and crowd shots. Many shots were entirely CGI.

http://www.fxguide.com/featured/a-graph ... fury-road/

The myth probably arose because it doesn't look effectsy.

Quite a bit looked very effecsty to me, but I was expecting something akin to the Road Warrior because everyone was saying it was all shot practically - then I see the movie and there are giant CGI rock formations, backgrounds, cgi tornados, a cgi arm, et cetera.

Arwyniel wrote:

Valkrist wrote:I don't suppose you've heard when the last EE will hit store shelves? I'm dying to know what goodie Weta will include this time.

Someone over at FoU posted this:

botfa.jpg

Very beautiful.

Has anyone seen where to preorder on Amazon with the WETA statue? Has that version not been offered yet or have they all sold out already??

I've not seen it up for ordering, although I admit Amazon is the only place I've checked thus far.

Thanks... just making sure it wasn't just me. I checked my order last year, and I pre ordered the exclusive WETA version in August.

Still no pre-order with statue? Are we sure there's going to be one?

Are you sure about that? It's been up for pre-order for some time now. Just search for 'hobbit battle five armies extended edition ' You can't miss seeing it.

What irritates me is that it is still not appearing on amazon.ca as usual.

I was kind of hoping for a nice boxset of the extended editions...might be holding off on a physical copy for now.

You can preorder the extended version, or you can preorder a box set of all three extendeds, but at least on Amazon I don't see anything about a gift set that comes with a statue.

Ah! I see. That wasn't up there when I last looked on Amazon!

Olorin wrote:You can preorder the extended version, or you can preorder a box set of all three extendeds, but at least on Amazon I don't see anything about a gift set that comes with a statue.

It doesn't show up when I search amazon... the gift set with the statue I mean.