Tolkien as Artist

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Do any of you loremasters/Tolkien experts know if this White Tree drawing is by JRRT?


White Tree of Gondor.jpg
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"Eternity is an awful long time, especially towards the end."

"What you see and what you hear depends a great deal on where you are standing.
It also depends on what sort of person you are.” -- CSL

Re: Tolkien as Artist

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I meant that drawing specifically.
It has a somewhat similar style to the Doors of Durin drawing, which is why I wondered.

"Eternity is an awful long time, especially towards the end."

"What you see and what you hear depends a great deal on where you are standing.
It also depends on what sort of person you are.” -- CSL

Re: Tolkien as Artist

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That is from the LOTR movie style guide. I have used it for United's LOTR products several times.

There are several tree graphics like this that were created by the production for banners, armor, et cetera. Most of it made it into the style guides for licensees.
KRDS

Re: Tolkien as Artist

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I was curious if Tolkien had ever made any drawing(s) of the White Tree.
I couldn't find anything online.
So I have requested (through the municipal library) a copy of J.R.R. Tolkien: Artist and Illustrator, edited by Wayne G. Hammond and Christina Scull, pub. by HoughtonMifflin.
There are numerous editions of it, and also an edition published in the UK by HarperCollins.
It's a compilation of all his extant artwork. So I guess I'll find out if any White Tree drawing exists.

"Eternity is an awful long time, especially towards the end."

"What you see and what you hear depends a great deal on where you are standing.
It also depends on what sort of person you are.” -- CSL

Re: Tolkien as Artist

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I have that book, plus several other Tolkien art books, so if I get a chance, I’ll flip through them to see what’s in there. However, I don’t think that necessarily everything he ever drew has been released to the public in a book.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: Tolkien as Artist

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Olorin wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 4:10 am I have that book, plus several other Tolkien art books, so if I get a chance, I’ll flip through them to see what’s in there. However, I don’t think that necessarily everything he ever drew has been released to the public in a book.
Oh, that would be nice of you.
But I'll still keep my library request open, because I'd like to see the artwork I've never seen before.
But those Inter Library Loan (ILL) requests can take weeks, even months, to turn up the requested book.
So if you want to look through your book (at your leisure) you can let me know what you find (or don't find ;) ).

"Eternity is an awful long time, especially towards the end."

"What you see and what you hear depends a great deal on where you are standing.
It also depends on what sort of person you are.” -- CSL

Re: Tolkien as Artist

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OK, I just took a look and came up with nothing (which doesn't mean I couldn't have overlooked it).

I'm surprised that you, as someone who'll spend the extra bucks to get the UK edition of Tolkien books, hasn't acquired his art books. They are all very worth having, as they really enrich our picture of the man's talent, not to mention getting a glimpse of how he envisioned his creations. If you want to track them down (and some may be out of print but there are a number of ways to find out of print books), they are:

Pictures by JRR Tolkien
JRR Tolkien: Artist and Illustrator
The Art of the Lord of the Rings
The Art of the Hobbit
Tolkien: Maker of Middle-earth

The last is not exclusively his artwork but also includes photos of him and family members. And obviously the 3rd and 4th books in my list are not to be confused with the movie tie-in concept art books.

I was a little surprised when I started looking for these books just now that there were five of them. Due to their varying sizes and the configuration of my library, I have them in several different places (and the shelf of the coffee table REALLY needs dusting).
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: Tolkien as Artist

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Olorin wrote: Mon May 02, 2022 11:32 am OK, I just took a look and came up with nothing (which doesn't mean I couldn't have overlooked it).

I'm surprised that you, as someone who'll spend the extra bucks to get the UK edition of Tolkien books, hasn't acquired his art books. They are all very worth having, as they really enrich our picture of the man's talent, not to mention getting a glimpse of how he envisioned his creations. If you want to track them down (and some may be out of print but there are a number of ways to find out of print books), they are:

Pictures by JRR Tolkien
JRR Tolkien: Artist and Illustrator
The Art of the Lord of the Rings
The Art of the Hobbit
Tolkien: Maker of Middle-earth

The last is not exclusively his artwork but also includes photos of him and family members. And obviously the 3rd and 4th books in my list are not to be confused with the movie tie-in concept art books.

I was a little surprised when I started looking for these books just now that there were five of them. Due to their varying sizes and the configuration of my library, I have them in several different places (and the shelf of the coffee table REALLY needs dusting).
I'm a rather late arrival to Middle Earth. The first Tolkien book I read was The Hobbit sometime in the 1990's I think.
I did not read LOTR until Oct 2001, before the Fellowship was released at the the theatres.
And the only reason I did it right then and not at some later date, was that I wasn't going to see the movie unless I knew the story first, and in detail.

I had been aware of JRRT and the ME lore for decades, just never read his work, or even anything about him.
In my freshman year of HS (ca. early 70s) some of the lit. classes read The Hobbit, but mine wasn't one of them.
Also the animated LOTR came out around then. I had no interest in any of it, tho' I liked SF a lot and maybe a little fantasy.
I recall the years of the calendars showcasing his art.

In retrospect I'm very glad I had no contact at all with any JRRT stories or lore (or calendars) at that time.
High school was, shall we say, a less than pleasant experience for me, as were my teen years in general.
Had I read any JRRT stories I do not think I would now go anywhere near them as reading them would dredge up memories better left buried.
So it is providential that I only came to ME as an adult in my 40s.

I do not have any of those books you listed, altho' I have many books about Tolkien and ME, including Shippey's The Road to Middle Earth, Karen Fonstad's Atlas (well thumbed by me), Scull and Hammond's Companion, also his Letters, the collection of essays "The Monsters and the Critics and other Essays" (ed by CRRT), some other books about him, some literary journals containing articles about him (e.g., The Chesterton Review).

I've only lately taken an interest in his artwork because it is a topic in not a few of his letters; his discussions with publishers often touch on whether he will be including any art----his own or others'--- in the MS.
There is a seller in the UK listing JRR Tolkien: Artist and Illustrator in hardback (pub. HarperCollins) for about $150 (condition: very good, shipping is about $5).
After I look at the one from library I will decide if I want to have my own copy.
And I'll have to see about requesting those others from the library.

"Eternity is an awful long time, especially towards the end."

"What you see and what you hear depends a great deal on where you are standing.
It also depends on what sort of person you are.” -- CSL

Re: Tolkien as Artist

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I suppose I erroneously assumed that since we are somewhat close to the same age and I first visited Middle-earth as a relatively young person, you did as well. But it sounds like your own first encounter definitely worked out well for you.

I have mostly pleasant memories of high school, or at least more good than bad, and being introduced to Tolkien was one of them. LOTR was recommended to me by a favorite teacher. I read it during the summer of, I believe, 1977, and was utterly enthralled. Tolkien's writing is such that I felt like I was reading about something that really happened, in a real place. I'd never had that experience from a book before, and perhaps not since (though Anne Rice comes close).

If you can see the various art books through non-purchase means it will be good, as you can determine whether you want to get them before taking the plunge.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: Tolkien as Artist

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Olorin wrote: Tue May 03, 2022 11:32 am I suppose I erroneously assumed that since we are somewhat close to the same age and I first visited Middle-earth as a relatively young person, you did as well. But it sounds like your own first encounter definitely worked out well for you.

I have mostly pleasant memories of high school, or at least more good than bad, and being introduced to Tolkien was one of them. LOTR was recommended to me by a favorite teacher. I read it during the summer of, I believe, 1977, and was utterly enthralled. Tolkien's writing is such that I felt like I was reading about something that really happened, in a real place. I'd never had that experience from a book before, and perhaps not since (though Anne Rice comes close).

If you can see the various art books through non-purchase means it will be good, as you can determine whether you want to get them before taking the plunge.
Going off on a bit of tangent....
"Tolkien's writing is such that I felt like I was reading about something that really happened, in a real place. I'd never had that experience from a book before, and perhaps not since (though Anne Rice comes close)."

Growing up and well into my 20's I read mostly fiction of one sort or another. If it wasn't fiction it was usually a textbook (blech).
I was always a reader, and was reading at a third grade level in kindergarten. But always fiction, and only what interested me.
So I always was immersed in a story, having to come back to the "real world" only when I had to put the book down.
That is, all stories were real to me; real people, real places, real events...and that is still the case (over-developed imagination, no doubt. :rolleye: )
If I don't like the story, then it's just a slog, then, as now.
Wasn't until my late 20's that I started reading non-fiction..e.g biographies, histories, poli-sci, science (mostly astronomy), poetry.
But if it's well written I can still get lost in it.

(Funny cartoon)
Calvin and Hobbes.jpg
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"Eternity is an awful long time, especially towards the end."

"What you see and what you hear depends a great deal on where you are standing.
It also depends on what sort of person you are.” -- CSL

Re: Tolkien as Artist

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So, returning to our regularly scheduled programming....

Tolkien did, in fact, make a drawing of the White Tree, to be used as cover art for The Return of the King.

I went to here to see what I could learn about "house sigils" and found this:

The emblem of Elendil and his heirs was seven five-pointed stars, each representing one of the palantíri that Elendil brought from Númenor. In Gondor they were set on a sable coat of arms, together with the White Tree, which represented any of the descendants of Nimloth that grew in Minas Ithil and, later, Minas Tirith. To this device the Kings of the line of Elendil added the Silver Crown, which was the chief mark of royalty. In Arnor a single five-pointed star became used as a device, the Elendilmir, representing the Star of Earendil. In Gondor the device including the stars and the Silver Crown fell out of general use, until the time of Elessar and the Reunited Kingdom. [6] The crown of Gondor is depicted most clearly in letter 211 of Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien. The tree here is based on the tree of a suggested dustjacked for The Return of the King made by Professor Tolkien.

Notice the phrase "suggested dust jacket" so I'm guessing it was never used.
Be that as it may, I did a Google search by typing Tolkien Art for Return of the King dust jacket and got this hit (among others):

https://www.theonering.com/galleries/bo ... r-tolkien/

The site also showed JRRT's cover art for The Fellowship and The Two Towers, both of which I recognized.
Indeed, The Fellowship cover art (slightly modified and with a black background) was used for all three volumes of the 2nd edition published by Houghton Mifflin (U.S).

But here are the covers as JRRT drew them:
LOTR dust jacket art by JRRT_50.jpg
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"Eternity is an awful long time, especially towards the end."

"What you see and what you hear depends a great deal on where you are standing.
It also depends on what sort of person you are.” -- CSL

Re: Tolkien as Artist

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And of course as soon as you posted, I remember having seen that before. I don’t have that edition of the books, but I have seen it. I never really liked that cover, because it makes it look like a Christmas tree.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: Tolkien as Artist

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Olorin wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 2:06 am And of course as soon as you posted, I remember having seen that before. I don’t have that edition of the books, but I have seen it. I never really liked that cover, because it makes it look like a Christmas tree.
Did you see as a dust jacket, or did you just see it somewhere else, such as in one of the art books you listed?
Have to agree about the Christmas tree look, but then Tolkien often said of himself that he was no artist.

Tangential question about the TT dust cover: the tower on the right is Orthanc... pretty sure the Tower on the left is Minas Ithil/Morgul.
Am I correct?

"Eternity is an awful long time, especially towards the end."

"What you see and what you hear depends a great deal on where you are standing.
It also depends on what sort of person you are.” -- CSL

Re: Tolkien as Artist

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I probably just saw it as a picture of a dust jacket somewhere, though perhaps it might be in one of my books that I haven’t really gone through thoroughly.

Yes, the tower on the right is Orthanc, and the tower on the left at least in that illustration is clearly supposed to be Minas Morgul. As to the title “The Two Towers,” there is universal agreement that one of the towers is Orthanc. However, there has been a fair bit of interpretation about what the other tower is. It could be Barad-dur, it could be Minas Morgul, or it could be Cirith Ungol. I can’t remember what exactly Tolkien himself said about that, if he ever addressed it head-on. Obviously at the time he made the drawing, he was thinking of Minas Morgul. The movies obviously interpreted it to mean Barad-dur, based on Saruman’s monologue. However, it sticks in my mind that there was some reference to it as being Cirith Ungol, possibly from the plot summary on the dust cover. I can’t remember at the moment.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: Tolkien as Artist

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Tolkien was very modest about his talents as an artist. True, sometimes he would create little more than doodles, but many of his paintings I thought were very good. The three covers they chose for the LOTR volumes are somewhere between those two extremes.

Actually, back in the 70s or 80s, the paperback editions of the trilogy had some of Tolkien's better paintings:
Image
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: Tolkien as Artist

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Yep, I remember those ...just didn't read them for another 20 years or so... :laugh:

"Eternity is an awful long time, especially towards the end."

"What you see and what you hear depends a great deal on where you are standing.
It also depends on what sort of person you are.” -- CSL

Re: Tolkien as Artist

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So....JRR Tolkien: Artist and Illustrator showed up.
I read it in the last two days.
Pretty interesting... the [text] sections dealing with the art for The Hobbit and LOTR draw heavily on his Letters .
But, now that I've seen it I probably won't be buying it, at least not for $150.
I am not a collector of "all things Tolkien"... never was.
If I found it for less than $50 (in very good condition) I might spring for it.
Next up, I put in requests for the other 4 books about his art.

"Eternity is an awful long time, especially towards the end."

"What you see and what you hear depends a great deal on where you are standing.
It also depends on what sort of person you are.” -- CSL
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