Ultimate Collectors' Forums

Hardly a new topic, but..... has anyone heard (relatively recently) anything that might shed more light on who TB was , or where he came from?
Or what [else] Tolkien said about him besides what we know from his letters?

Oh Deimos... the random things that keep you up at night.

No, nothing recent, sorry, but may I ask why the question now?

We all know the theories already out there...

He's Tolkien himself
He's Eru Illuvatar
He's a Maia spirit that went native early on
He's the living embodiment of Arda's nature and innocence

Did I miss any? But no, nothing new...

Valkrist wrote: Fri Mar 31, 2023 5:55 pm Oh Deimos... the random things that keep you up at night.

No, nothing recent, sorry, but may I ask why the question now?

We all know the theories already out there...

He's Tolkien himself
He's Eru Illuvatar
He's a Maia spirit that went native early on
He's the living embodiment of Arda's nature and innocence

Did I miss any? But no, nothing new...

Yep, you missed something. But to be fair, I started this thread in case someone else had already come across the info I had just discovered.
I didn't want to be reminded "Oh we already knew that!"
So Tolkien hasn't (yet) told us exactly who/ what Tom is but we now know where he's from, and he's not a part of Ëa (creation) at all.

In a 1964 letter (that does not appear in the Book of Tolkien's Letters) to one Professor Przemyslaw Mroczkowski he discusses Tom Bombadil at length.
Christie's (the auction house ) listed the letter and it sold for £6000 . Letter Auction

The relevant contents of the letter appear in an article ... here
The link to the Christie's auction is also listed (which I have added above).

Then again, you may already know about this from a different source. I did not and found it pretty fascinating.
I have always believed in other planes of existence and that they occasionally touch.
Tolkien believed it also and says as much in his essay "On Fairy-Stories".

Very interesting article, had not read it before.

It does bring up an interesting thought about another Tolkien character that has always defied classification, even despite being given one. I speak of course of Ungoliant, Demon of the Void. That title is very vague, and implies that the spirit that formed into Ungoliant once it arrived on Arda was a being wholly independent of Eru's plan and creation. I think this hints at the possibility that Eru was not the sole inhabitant of the Void, as we seem to think, because why else would he create something like Ungoliant? Or was she a rogue Ainu that snuck in before the others?

I watched a video on YouTube where someone undertakes to theorize on the origin and nature of the "nameless horrors that gnawed at the roots of the world", and the fact that they were older than even Sauron.

The supposition is that these creatures/beings/spirits were the unfortunate result of the discord created by Melkor when he defiantly tried to weave his own theme into the Ainulindale. These misshapen things fled to the newly formed Arda and hid there, coalescing into abominations, like the Watcher in the Water, and the other beasties Gandalf glimpsed when he fell into the Underdeeps in his fight with Durin's Bane.

At any rate, all this to say that if one takes that school of thought, Tom is not really alone as something from the outside that doesn't really fit. He could be the thematic opposite of something like Ungoliant, who was also not part of the grand design but ended a permanent resident.

Next question... who or what is Goldberry?

Valkrist wrote: Sat Apr 01, 2023 8:27 am Very interesting article, had not read it before.

It does bring up an interesting thought about another Tolkien character that has always defied classification, even despite being given one. I speak of course of Ungoliant, Demon of the Void. That title is very vague, and implies that the spirit that formed into Ungoliant once it arrived on Arda was a being wholly independent of Eru's plan and creation. I think this hints at the possibility that Eru was not the sole inhabitant of the Void, as we seem to think, because why else would he create something like Ungoliant? Or was she a rogue Ainu that snuck in before the others?

I watched a video on YouTube where someone undertakes to theorize on the origin and nature of the "nameless horrors that gnawed at the roots of the world", and the fact that they were older than even Sauron.

The supposition is that these creatures/beings/spirits were the unfortunate result of the discord created by Melkor when he defiantly tried to weave his own theme into the Ainulindale. These misshapen things fled to the newly formed Arda and hid there, coalescing into abominations, like the Watcher in the Water, and the other beasties Gandalf glimpsed when he fell into the Underdeeps in his fight with Durin's Bane.

At any rate, all this to say that if one takes that school of thought, Tom is not really alone as something from the outside that doesn't really fit. He could be the thematic opposite of something like Ungoliant, who was also not part of the grand design but ended a permanent resident.

Next question... who or what is Goldberry?

Only one conundrum allowed per post!

I'll have to look these....puzzlements.
But I think Ungoliant will be easier explain than Goldberry,....