Okay, let's see how this one goes. Yet another Pure Discussion thread.
Feel free to discuss the 6 books, the 3 movies (and upcoming 4th), and share your opinions on this interesting and sometimes enthralling series.

I tend to agree. The child actors were pretty horrible to begin with, and have progressed at an unimpressive level within each film. Even some of the adult acting is poor, but at least Alan Rickman adds some quality.

Well, this thread could have gone either way, but as is my luck, early on it looks like it's going to flop :confused1

Well, thanks.
Comparing Harry Potter and LOTR is a bad idea. Sure, their are certain questionable similarities (Dementors, Giant Spider), but since when is anything truly original nowadays? That's why we get remakes like War of the Worlds and King Kong.
I just think they're decent because of the research into the spells and names, which actually reflect the action or the person's character.

Ripped what off exactly? I'm sure there were Giant spiders and cloaked menaces in books long before Tolkien came along, so he must have ripped someone off too by your definition. Grim Reaper anyone?
And since the books in which these were first mentioned came out before the LOTR films did, how come it's only someone who has now been successful that is now accused of ripping off LOTR? I'm sure there have been books written in between the 50 years of LOTRs publication and the release of the films which have seen similarities, and have not been criticised.

Anarion wrote:Be sure to see my edit. But, I'm sure Tolkien has taken things from other stories, and used them in his. But this lady has taken many things... not just one here and there, many things I saw seemed way too similar to just LOTR. Hey if it hade a giant spider, so what? It has a giant spider, an invisible cloak, a giant thing that resembles a troll, and I dunno what the other things are, but they look like wraiths. Hey if you like it, so what? Right? If I dont, so what? To each his own.

Exactly, to each his own. I was just responding to your comment about the ripping off by mentioning that similarities can be found everywhere, and whether they're intentional or not, they can't be helped now.
Glad we could clear that up!

P.S.I saw your edit, but only after I'd posted my reply

Anarion wrote:Its all cleared up, but I did say Tolkien used elements from other stories. I never denied that.

Not to re-ignite the arguement, but what then is the difference between Tolkien copying someone, and Rowling copying someone? Or, ripping them off, as you like to put it
Your love for Tolkien, and dislike for HP does not change that they both did the same thing, and yet only one receives scorn.

Anarion wrote:I have said it 2 or 3 posts ago. Tolkien didnt take from one story, and build a whole bunch of books on it. He has copied other elements of stories, and so has Rowling. What I'm saying is, Rowling (from what I have seen) has taken the majority of her content from LOTR. This may not be true, but its a hell of a coincidence with all the "similarities" in it.
It's like when you have to write a research paper on something. You dont take everything from one source. You need many different elements, and then add your own thought to it, and then its your own. Just my stance.

Rowling didn't take all from one story either. There is actually a lot of research into the names of the characters and spells (as in Latin roots), as well as the mythological and self created creatures. Since you haven't read the books, I don't see how you can say it's preponderantly based on LOTR. The few examples I have mentioned, granted, can look like they've been taken out of LOTR, and perhaps they have, but there is a lot of new and creative things that you haven't the knowledge about. Again the Spider and the Dementor are the only things that can connect in a seemingly significant way, to LOTR.
The invisibility cloak, which I presume you are relating to the Elven cloaks, is a bit far fetched. In a world full of magic, there are endless possibilities, and so connecting these two is pretty ridiculous.
These few examples are not what the books are based on, and only ever figure on the out skirts of the overall plotline, so you can't say she taken others' work and built a bunch of books on them.
I just think saying that she's built her storybase around Tolkien's ideas is a little unfair, especially when you haven't read the books. I suggest you read them despite your lack of interest, then come back and we can have a fair fight
I think you'll find though that they are just coincidences like you said, because there are not at all many Tolkien similarities on top of the ones we have brushed upon here.

Not to beat a dead horse, but i am a little late to the discussion, but in music appreciation, we listened to an Opera written well before tolkien's time from Germany I believe, which was about a ring of power and dwarves and elves, not the same, it had mermaids and other things. If you think about it, it would be nearly impossible to come up with something completely original, even if you dont consciously mean to, there are so many books and movies and music that could influence you without you even knowing

BladeCollector wrote:Not to beat a dead horse, but i am a little late to the discussion, but in music appreciation, we listened to an Opera written well before tolkien's time from Germany I believe, which was about a ring of power and dwarves and elves, not the same, it had mermaids and other things. If you think about it, it would be nearly impossible to come up with something completely original, even if you dont consciously mean to, there are so many books and movies and music that could influence you without you even knowing

An excellent point BladeCollector, one that I and perhaps Anarion has overlooked. Since the fresh injection of LOTR came after 4 of the HP books, perhaps Rowling's insiration was influenced by others' work without even knowing it?
Thanks BladeCollector. That is a brilliant way to look at things.

Anarion wrote:You assume too much. I have read 2 of the freakin books. Its obvious what your opinion is, I just stated mine again because you ASKED. I did not say she takes all from LOTR, I say she takes a hell of a lot.

So be it, and I of course, respect your opinion. I think we should agree to disagree, just to be on the safe side. This need not develop into anything other than a friendly debate. What do you think?

Anarion wrote:Oh poo. another post b4 reading a previous post. Sorry bout that. Too late to call it a deal?:lol_blue:

Of course not! And Anarion, with regards to your post above this one (this one being the post I'm writing now...), I agree with you that they are not the best books ever! Just good books.

King of Numenor, thanks for the support :lol_blue:
So, what did you think to the 6th book??

I know what you mean! It's certainly an interesting decision on her behalf.
My question now though, is who's going to be the next character bumped off?

Well, the past two books now she has killed off two characters who were close to Harry. It's therefore reasonable to suggest the final book will follow suit. Obviously the three main candidates would be Ron, Hermione, and Hagrid.
It's pretty sad that she does it, but I think it's because Harry works best when he left to his own devices, ie being alone, and letting his heart and/or anger guide him. This is when his Voldemort-esque qualities of resourcefulness, determination, and disregard for the rules come into play most potently I think. Obviously, some would say using anger is a path to the dark side, so it's a good job we're not talking Star Wars here :lol_blue:

Anyway, what are people's favourite book so far? And, what do you think about the casting of Ralph Fiennes as Lord Voldemort, and Brendan Gleeson as Mad-Eye Moody? I think that, as per usual in fact, the casting directors have chosen the perfect adult actors for the new roles.

I have a favourite, or rather, from book 4 onward, they get a lot better! I think I like the 5th the most at the moment, because of the DA in the Room of Requirement, and the fight against the Death Eaters in the Department of Mysteries. That particular incident is why I'm looking forward to the Order of the Phoenix film. Too bad we'll have to wait until 2007 to see it

I think the great minds think alike factor is kicking in again.
When you read the 6th book, you discover something called a Horcrux. This is an item in which part of your soul can be put when you kill someone, thus making it harder for you to be killed. Voldemort has 6 of these and they all have to be destroyed in order for Voldemort to become 'mortal' again, so that he can be killed, as the final piece of his soul is in his body.
I am of the opinion that when Voldemort killed Harry's parents, he simultaneously made Harry a Horcrux without knowing and/or meaning to. So, Harry will find the remaining Horcruxes and dispose of them, and will try to kill Voldemort. They will then both send killing curses at each other. Voldemort's will hit first, killing Harry, but also destroying the last Horcrux. Then Harry's curse will hit the now mortal Voldemort, and kill him.

What do you think to that theory? It's the same as yours, but throws in elements that make the concept more realistic It's definitely workable, and would obviously put an end to the books in the most definite fashion. How likely it is to happen though, is a different matter entirely.

Theoden of Rohan wrote:I didn't want to post until I finished the HBP. I finished last night and it was a great book. I hate the Defense Against the Dark Arts Teacher for what he did. I can't wait until he gets the axe. I can't wait until the OotP movie comes out. This movie should be great with the climax in the Department of Mysteries.

Oh Snape will definitely get his come-uppance for what he did. Book 7 will certainly be interesting, especially since Harry has said he's not going back to school. I think that's a little far-fetched though, because where does he even begin to look for more Horcruxes? Unless he discovers the identity of R.A.B., the one who took the Horcrux he and Dumbledore went to find.
I think R.A.B. could be Sirius' brother, Regulus Black. I think you learn in OotP that he was linked with the Death Eaters, but was killed. Maybe he stole the Horcrux and Voldemort found out, and then killed him? I don't know. That may be a bit of a far-fetched theory, but unless R.A.B is a completely new character, then I can't think who else it could be.

I have to admit that OotP will be a highly anticipated film. When Harry, Hermione, Ron, Neville, Ginny, and Luna fight the Death Eaters will be a great moment, but the best part will be seeing Michael Gambon as Dumbledore, and Ralph Fiennes as Voldemort duel in the entrance hall of the Ministry of Magic. The ease at which Dumbledore is able to deflect Voldemort's killing curses is what makes the fact that he is now gone even more unbelievable. I can't wait for that film! In fact, film 4 onwards will all be great I reckon, just like the books were.

Theoden of Rohan wrote:When I first saw R.A.B.,I immediately thought of Black also. I'm hoping maybe we could see Sirius again in some form. I know what you mean about Dumbledore,one of the greatest wizards getting beat by Snape. I don't think Malfoy would have killed him. I don't believe he is evil and will help Harry in someway before the end.

I think Harry will come back to Hogwarts. Shouldn't there be a picture of Dumbledore in his office like all the other previous headmasters? If so shouldn't he be able to talk to Harry again?

As far as Sirius in concerned, I'm still not 100% convinced he is dead. Unlike Dumbledore, who is definitely dead, Sirius' 'death' is wrapped in suspiscion. When he was duelling with Bellatrix in the Department of Mysteries, it does not say that she hit him with the killing curse, or that there was a flash of green light (indicating the killing curse). He merely fell through the veil. Now, a friend of mine is convinced that falling through the veil causes instant death, but there is nothing in the book that suggests that is true. He argued that Kreacher would not serve Harry if Sirius wasn't really dead, but nobody knows what lies beyond the veil. I countered by say that magical links may be severed beyond the veil, and that Sirius could still be alive, but just trapped. Anyway, that's just another one of my far-fetched theories! The thing that makes me question his death really is something Luna says afterwards, something about them not really being gone, and because she and Harry could hear voices behind the veil.

The fact the Snape was the one to kill Dumbledore made it even worse for me. Obviously Dumbledore was severely weakened, and without his wand, he was pretty much helpless. I do not think Malfoy would have killed him either. He's bad, but he was cracking under the pressure of the doing the Dark Lord's bidding. He will probably feel Voldemort's wrath, since Snape ended up doing what he was charged with.

I also agree that Harry should return to Hogwarts. For a start, where does he begin to look for the remaining Horcruxes? He will need the help of the now Headmistress McGonagall, members from the Order, and probably Dumbledore's portrait as you mentioned. I just don't think he has learned enough magic to stand against Voldemort, who is now afterall, the most powerful wizard in the world. Harry's powers are going to have to develop 10 fold in the final book for him to stand a chance against Voldemort, imo.
Now obviously, Avada Kedavra is the most significant spell, and is probably all the Voldemort is going to throw at him, except maybe the Cruciatus curse, but Harry still needs to master spells without saying them aloud, so he can hope to get past all the Death Eaters that will inevitably stand in his way before he can even get a shot at Voldemort.
Now, I think Harry will kill Bellatrix. I'm not sure if he'll kill Snape, because despite his killing Dumbledore, there's still the slightest chance that he may not be in league with the Dark Lord, and him killing Dumbledore was part of Dumbledore's masterplan. There's probably the wildest of my theories! So I'll leave you to ponder what I've written for the moment

Theoden of Rohan wrote:How will Harry get stronger? Who is left that he can go to? Hagrid? Hermione? Though I think either Ron or Hermione will die helping Harry. I hope Neville kills Bellatrix,it would make more sense to me than Harry. But I would be happy with either of them killing her. I would have Lupin kill Snape and get back at him for revealing his secret in the 3rd year.

How long do you think the final book will be? I was suprised to find the HBP shorter than the OotP. I thought each book would get longer has the series progressed. I hope the last one is bigger than OotP.

I'm not sure how Harry will get stronger to be honest. At the end of OotP though, he hits Bellatrix with the Cruciatus curse, and it does not have the proper effect. That's why I suggested he needs to get stronger. If that curse doesn't function as it should, then his killing curse will definitely not be strong enough to kill Voldemort.
I like your idea about Neville killing Bellatrix. It would certainly be a small condolence after she tortured his parents into insanity. I think he's a good wizard, afterall, the prophecy came oh so close to having his name on it, but he just lacks self-confidence. When he puts his mind to it, like at the DA meetings, he is capable of becoming great. I hope he hits Bellatrix with the Cruciatus curse a few times before he finishes her off :lol_blue: Maybe that's a bit wicked of me, but hey, she deserves it!
I would rather Harry kill Snape to be honest. If my wild theory proves false (highly likely!), then Harry should kill him, simply because he was always a complete F**ker to Harry, and because he killed Dumbledore. I of course wouldn't object to Lupin getting some of the glory, though there will be plenty of killing for him to do in the form of the many other Death Eaters. I hope that Sirius will come back early in the last book, so that he and Harry can take on Voldemort together. However, I think if that happened, Sirius may die indefinitely.

I have to admit, I was quite disappointed in the length of HBP. I finished it the day it came out and was left wanting more! I also thought it would continue the trend of the first 5 books, and have more pages than it's predecessor.
I think to truly finish off the series, Book 7 has to be at least 1,000 pages. OotP (English version) is a good 700+ pages, so I see no reason why the final book can not be a lot longer, maybe even double. I would certainly not be complaining!
Speaking of Book 7, does anyone have any inclinations as to what they think the title will be? I know this is a little hard, but what are people's thoughts anyway?
It could be something like 'Harry Potter and the Battle of the Phoenix Tail Wands' or 'Harry Potter and the Prophecy fulfilled'
I dunno, those a just two of a million different possibilities :goofy_pur

Queen Evenstar wrote:Richard Harris was the first Dumbledore and also my favourite, he really epitomised what I imagined Dumbledore to be like. The other one, although a brilliant actor, doesn't seem as Dumbledore-ish, for lack of a better word.

I know what you mean when you say that. However, I think you would say the same if Michael Gambon had been Dumbledore in the first 2 films, and then Richard Harris had replaced him when he died. It's very hard to fill the role of someone who has died when he has firmly established themselves. That's why everyone has a favourite Bond! (Mine is Roger Moore by the way )
As for which one I prefer, I'll wait till I see OotP before I pass judgement

I still think it's possible that Dumbledore meant for Snape to kill him. I don't think Dumbledore is ignorant enough to not know that Snape was loyal to Voldemort during the 6 years of the story. It's inconceivable!

Queen Evenstar wrote:I think Flame's guess is good though and I would laugh if it actually turns out to be right.

What's that supposed to mean!?!? You mean you'd congratulate me on such a splendiferous interpretation of the storyline :p

Queen Evenstar wrote:Er yes indeed, but I'd probably be forced to buy you a Guiness for being such a smarty pants or a white wine spritzer in revenge!
Though I leave you to ponder whether it is certain that the prophecy will be fulfilled!

Lol, I'll be ready to take delivery of that Guiness then :lol_blue:

As far as the prophecy is concerned, I have no doubt it will be fulfilled. One of them must die, so it should (should being the key word) happen in this last book. Unless of course we go on to the life after Hogwarts series, and Auror college :clapping:

So, I take it people have seen trailers for GoF? It is definitely going to be the best film yet! There's a lot for them to cover, so it should be around 3 hours if it's to do some small justice to the book. We need to see the Quidditch World Cup and all the shenanigans after it with the Death Eaters, obviously the 3 Triwizard tasks will be the focal point of the film, with a great conclusion of seeing Ralph Fiennes come alive as Lord Voldemort! If anyone has seen Red Dragon, and/or Schindler's List, you will know why this guy is perfect for the role So yeah, it should be good. Alan Rickman, Brendan Gleeson, Ralph Fiennes, Michael Gambon, Jason Isaacs, and Robbie Coltrane all in the same film! How can it not be good?