I personally do not like Littlefinger, but his character is very very important to the story. Other than that, he isn't evil. There are two things that he wants:

1. A castle and land because his stinks
2. Catelyn Tulley

So he does whatever is required to get those two things... As we see at the end of Season 1/Book 1.

[quote=""RevAnakin""]I personally do not like Littlefinger, but his character is very very important to the story. Other than that, he isn't evil. There are two things that he wants:

1. A castle and land because his stinks
2. Catelyn Tulley

So he does whatever is required to get those two things... As we see at the end of Season 1/Book 1.[/quote]

When we learn about Littlefingers past I can't help but feel that Cat's rejection of him has had really bad effects on him. These are just my personal thoughts, but I think Littlefinger wants to bring down all these high lords and ruin them as a sort of (naughty word) you. The scene added into the start of season 2 where Littlefinger tells Cersei that knowledge is power really adds to that idea. I never read the second book, but I know that Littlefinger is never a point of view character in any of the books and this scene didn't happen.

Perhaps George Martin has given the producers more information about Littlefinger. There are a lot of scenes that were added into season 2 that featured Littlefinger that basically didn't happen in the book. I know this because I read the plot on the A song of ice and fire wikia. Littlefinger never spoke with Cat and he only turned up at Renly's camp after the incident to form the alliance between the Tyrells and Lannisters. I like the scene between Littlefinger and Cat, I feel sympathy towards Littlefinger.

Well actually, I spoilt the entire thing for myself because I couldn't take it anymore and read up on the rest of the stuff that happens to Littlefinger in the next books. Stupid, I know.

Do you believe that Littlefinger forced Joffrey into killing Ned Stark? My personal belief is that it was actually Varys, but then when I think about it and those scenes where Varys asks Ned to say he's guilty I kinda change my mind. I suppose it makes more sense for Littlefinger to have done it because he's out of the way and now he has a clear run to Cat. But then I think back to the scene with Varys and Illyrio, maybes Varys forced Joffrey to kill Ned to further create a war. A quote from the book -

"Littlefinger... the Gods only know what game Littlefinger is playing. Yet Lord Stark's the one who troubles my sleep. He has the bastard, he has the book and soon enough he'll have the truth. And now his wife has abducted Tyrion Lannister, thanks to Littlefinger's meddling. Lord Tywin will take that for an outrage, and Jaime has a queer affection for the imp. If the Lannisters move north, that will bring the Tullys in as well. Delay, you say. Make haste, I reply. Even the finest of jugglers cannot keep a hundred balls the air forever."

I interpret this as Varys saying that the time is right and that they can start to move ahead with their plans.

He knows that the revelation of the Lannister children could potentially start a war and when he realises that Cersei intends to send Ned to the wall after he confesses I think this is the time that he perhaps speaks to Joffrey. A war is what he wants for his plan to work so influencing Joffrey into killing Ned will certainly cause this to happen and then all of Westeros will be at each others throats.

Just my thoughts though, if its a jumbled mess I apologise.

Edit: I removed part of the post for spoilery reasons, I'll send you a PM about it later Rev

Big spoiler alert for anyone who cares! Do not read this post if you can about plot spoilers!
....
...
..
.
..
...
Anyways, no one convinced Joffery to kill Ned. Cersei didn't want it, nor Peter, nor Varys. Everyone wanted Joff to send him to the Wall and take the black. Joffery wanted to kill Ned like he tried to kill Bran with the assassin. Joff is just spiteful of the Starks. Why he tries to kill Bran, kills Ned, beats on Sansa, and tries to take down Rob. Everyone wanted Ned to not be killed so Rob wouldn't march south with the army.

You are right about Varys in general. I still don't think Varys wanted Ned dead because he is actually a stand up guy. Varys is confusing for many people because he works not for the Lannisters, nor Starks, he is actually loyal to the Tygarians. Varys wants to see Dany or Dany's nephew on the throne, so he is doing everything in his power to make the Lannisters, Starks, Baratheons, and all other powerful houses destroy each other before Dany comes back. All the assassins he sent for Dany had a back up to make sure nothing happened to her.

On extra scenes added. Luckily the writers have Martin there to ask all the questions we would want to know. So far it seems that everything added was approved or at least agreed upon with Martin. Every time Martin interviews, he seems to really like what the writers are doing.

I don't feel that bad for Peter. He loved Cat and never got over it. So what does he do, marry Cat's sister, and then tries to marry Sansa. I think he is just a creep trying to get the closest thing to a young Cat as possible. He is a great character and ends up doing a lot of cool things, like killing Joff which was nice. I just worry that he might hurt Sansa.

I only said all that because you said you Wiki'ed it.

By the way, it isn't bad that you looked ahead. I read the first book and then read at least 30-40 pages of wiki for the rest of the story. It isn't ruining it, you are still reading it and being surprised. I read about the Red Wedding and then when I finally read it in the book I was just as nervous and it was just as heart wrenching as it would have been without reading the Wiki first.

I think we are probably all happier not knowing or thinking about what Varys does or doesn't have in his trou.

[quote=""Olorin""]I think we are probably all happier not knowing or thinking about what Varys does or doesn't have in his trou.[/quote]

It's actually the "Eunuch" (all eunuchs not just Varys) play a very, very important role in the entire Song of Fire and Ice story line. So it is very important what is in his trou!

I read about Varys' loyalties, and I get what you mean about him not wanting to kill Ned, but it was just the way those parts played out and I couldn't help but think that perhaps Varys did influence Joffrey's decision.

There are forums with big debates where people are saying that Littlefinger is most likely the main villain for the entire stories, but I think its clear that the Others are the main threat, not Littlefinger. I feel a bit more for Varys than I do Littlefinger, but I enjoy them both and they steal every scene they are in.

Spoiler (highlight text to read)
-
-
-
-

The red wedding scene was actually spoilt by some idiot on youtube who thought it was fun to ruin everything for people who hadn't read the books. I wonder if they'll show Littlefinger's reaction to this in series 4. It seems the best place to have the red wedding is the climax of series 3, and I think most people will agree. Also looking forward to Joffrey's death I don't think Littlefinger will hurt Sansa, he seems to be very "caring" towards her in a slightly creepy way. I think his rejection has seriously messed him up though, but he's very clever and like you said does some cool things.

-
-
-
-
end of spoiler

I wonder if HBO will commission series 3 and 4 together. I am glad that this second series has topped the ratings and viewing figures of the first, hopefully series 3 will do the same. It would be cool if we could get the entire story told. Its my favourite show at the moment.

Has anyone seen Camelot? Apparently Camelot cost 7 million dollars an episode to make, and there were ten so the final cost would be 70 million. But when I look at it, I can't help but think those figures are not accurate at all. The first season of Game of Thrones cost 60 million and the production values were 10 times higher than those of Camelot, that and the amazing acting from all the cast. The only things I enjoyed about Camelot were Eva Green and Joseph Fiennes. Jjamie Campbell Bower wasn't very good as Arthur at all

[quote=""Elvenguard13""]
I wonder if HBO will commission series 3 and 4 together. I am glad that this second series has topped the ratings and viewing figures of the first, hopefully series 3 will do the same. It would be cool if we could get the entire story told. Its my favourite show at the moment. [/quote]

Actually, I heard that Book 3 will be split into 2 seasons. We'll see.

I'm glad to hear it's doing well. Now I just want them to get season 2 out on BD so I can get it and watch it!

[quote=""Olorin""]Actually, I heard that Book 3 will be split into 2 seasons. We'll see.

I'm glad to hear it's doing well. Now I just want them to get season 2 out on BD so I can get it and watch it![/quote]


Sorry i keep forgetting to say this. A storm of swords, the 3rd book, was split into two parts over here in the UK. So by season 3 and 4 I mean the two parts of the third book. So season 5 will be based on book 4, A Feast for Crows. They'll probably split book 5 too as its another long book.

After episode 8 of Season 2 beat out every single show on TV that night except football (american football), HBO signed a contract for two more seasons. So we are going to at least see A Storm of Swords done from start to finish. I have a feeling they are going to start breaking every book up into two seasons. Why? 1. More money over the long term. 2. If not, they are going to catch up to A Dance with Dragons too fast and it won't give Martin enough time to finish.

Whoever says that Littlefinger is the main villain of the entire series is a joke. Honestly, there is pretty much only 2-3 things he does that can be classified as "evil."

[quote=""RevAnakin""]

Whoever says that Littlefinger is the main villain of the entire series is a joke. Honestly, there is pretty much only 2-3 things he does that can be classified as "evil."[/quote]

That's what I thought. What did you think of the look of the Others? I thought they looked really cool.

[quote=""Elvenguard13""]That's what I thought. What did you think of the look of the Others? I thought they looked really cool.[/quote]

I think the physical interpretation of the Others was very well done. Although not precise to Martin's description, I think they are actually better and less super natural. Just like somethings in the LOTR films where Tolkien's description was not my preferred idea compared to the films.

[quote=""RevAnakin""]I think the physical interpretation of the Others was very well done. Although not precise to Martin's description, I think they are actually better and less super natural. Just like somethings in the LOTR films where Tolkien's description was not my preferred idea compared to the films.[/quote]

It would be cool to get a replica of that crystal spear he holds. I remember when I read a Game of Thrones, in the prologue one of the Others ends up attacking one of the nights watch with his crystal sword and it shatters the normal steel sword. That would have been cool if they put that in the show, but the prologue sequence was shortened down. But it was still creepy. I wanna see more of the Others, I hope they become more prominent as the story goes on. They are obviously the main threat because no one down South is e xp ecting them because they don't believe they exist, so when they attack they won't be prepared. I suppose Dany and her dragons could just burn them though haha.

The Others play practically a 5% role until book 6. The newest book (not yet released) is said to have been specifically about them.

[quote=""RevAnakin""]The Others play practically a 5% role until book 6. The newest book (not yet released) is said to have been specifically about them.[/quote]

The Winds of Winter its gonna be called isn't it? and the last one is gonna be called A Dream of Spring I think.

I hope we get that far, if it keeps getting the good reviews and viewing figures then there's every chance we will get to the end of the story but I just hope it doesn't end any time soon.

Yeah, I am really excited for the end because Martin finally admitted to loving Bitter Sweet endings. I always worried that the entire series would end with the Others coming down and just killing everyone! lol But now there is hope of something working out decent.

With campaign season here in the US. There are some funny videos popping up.

http://winteriscoming.net/2012/06/satur ... ttack-ads/

yeah it should be good i wanna find out who john snow's parents are. i assume its rhaegar and lyanna.

The R+L =J theory sounds the most plausible. But knowing Martin he will probably just purposefully make it some low born nurse or something.

considering a song of fire and ice this makes sense and how john appears to be the main protagonist.

Him, Dany, and Tyrion are really the only ones with chapters in each book.

the three headed dragon of targaryens. plausible.

From Dark Horizons:


Production kicks off next month on the third season of HBO's "Game of Thrones" and some new details have emerged ahead of filming says EW.
Like this past season, shooting locations in Ireland and Croatia will continue to stand in for the various places around Westeros while the areas beyond the Wall will once again be shot in Iceland.
One new location though is Morocco which will likely stand in for the various cities of Slaver's Bay which Daenerys and her group visit this season which is e xp ected to be based on the first half of the third book "A Storm of Swords".
Alan Taylor will not be returning to helm episodes due to his "Thor" sequel commitments. Instead showrunners David Benioff and D.B. Weiss will direct, as will returning talents Dan Minahan, David Nutter and Alik Sakharov along with Alex Graves ("The Newsroom," "Terra Nova") and Michelle MacLaren ("Breaking Bad," "The Walking Dead").
The writing staff remains intact with Benioff, Weiss, Bryan Cogman and Vanessa Taylor handling the scripts. Author George R.R. Martin will return to pen an episode, his will be the seventh of the season entitled "Autumn Storms".
The new season is e xp ected to hit the airwaves in April next year.

sounds good

Faster faster faster!

This article from the BBC confirms that there will be a 4th season. I wonder if they'll film series 3 and 4 back-to-back, but perhaps that is quite a big challenge for the production team.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-18878049

And they picked up 12 Emmy Nominations. Again Peter D. as best supporting actor.

Just started watching GoT on Friday, a friend of mine let me borrow his DVD set, well I finished Season 1 Saturday and I am watching episode 8 of Season 2 right now, legitimately... Time Warner Cable has it on HBO On Demand, so I should finish tonight.

Being the impatient person that I am, I may have to read the books to find out what happens next!

All I need is to get obsessed with another series that is loaded with potential weapons!!

Glad to see that you are apparently enjoying it, in spite of the damage it may ultimately do to your wallet!

So far it is a good show, except there is a lot of characters to keep up with!

Don't worry, there are plenty more characters in the books

The biggest problems with the Valyrian Steel Swords, is that they make similar quality swords to UC, un-functional stainless steel, but then charge double what I personally pay for my UCs. I think it is ridiculous.

Most of those Valarian Steel Swords were pretty limited editions and with a die hard collectors base, they could command those prices.


I am hoping when/if they make TV/HBO replicas, they will have larger runs and/or be cheaper

Valyrian Steel also obtained the exclusive rights to produce licensed replicas of the weapons and armor from the HBO series. They plan on a high-carbon steel, full-tang, functional version of Robb Stark's sword. They also have a Stark Infantry Shield and the Helmet of the Hound planned along with show versions of Ice, Longclaw, and Needle. As I am well and truly insane, I already own the entire collection of Valyrian Steel offerings from the books. With the Hobbit coming out soon, and the new line of Valyrian items from the HBO series, I'm thinking of selling a kidney!

If you find a place that offers good $$ for kidneys, let me know. I think I have an extra one too!

Alright, I need to make a "correction" here. I was on Valyrian steel and they claimed that their new Longclaw was NOT going to be "full tang." This highly irritated me because they stated a few months ago it would be "functional." So I called them out on it naturally :p

Anyways, they responded saying that it is "impossible" to make Longclaw "full tang" because of the decorative pommel. According to them, "full tang" means the tang has to go ALL the way through the pommel and screwed or welded on, making it visible.

I then informed them that the only time a tang is visible is if it is an "extended tang" or "peeled full tang." Also, I stated the definition of "full tang" as I know it and how Windlass, Hanwei, and Albion define it: when the tang runs the full length of the HANDLE and is secured at least inside the pommel.

They said indeed that their new swords will have this type of tang, as I know it a "full tang."

So if you save and buy their damascus version of Longclaw, it will be what the market considers full tang and fully functional.

i agree still you're probably safer with having them custom made.

Some photos have been released for season 3 and I love this one:



http://tvline.com/2013/01/25/game-of-th ... 8443712-A/

Also, check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaedhISdshA

MAJOR GAME OF THRONES SPOILERS IN MY POST!!! So turn away now if you haven't yet seen it

Spoilers for season 3 episode 9

Spoilers in black, highlight to read. Val, would it be possible to get a spoiler tab option on the forum?


__________________________________________________________

Man... that episode was so intense. I knew that scene was coming, and to be honest I never imagined it would be so brutal and heart wrenching. This is litterally the only time I have almost cried at something on a TV series or movie. It was awful. But awful in a good way I guess.

I know there has been a lot of backlash with how brutal the episode was, but I enjoyed it even with that horrific final scene. Man, Game of Thrones just keeps getting better and better.

It was Talisa's death that really got me, the way she was stabbed 5 or 6 times in the stomach when they knew she was pregnant was awful

Michelle Fairley's acting in the scene was freaking amazing as well. I really wanna see her get some recognition for this.


__________________________________________________________

End of spoilers

I thought it was a great scene/episode. I have not read the books but I have read through the summaries, not to spoil myself, but to see what it was all about.

I am anxious to see the fallout next episode and I cant believe we have to wait till next year for season 4?!?!?

[quote=""BladeCollector""]I thought it was a great scene/episode. I have not read the books but I have read through the summaries, not to spoil myself, but to see what it was all about.

I am anxious to see the fallout next episode and I cant believe we have to wait till next year for season 4?!?!?[/quote]

Gah I know! We have to wait until March as well to buy the season DVD. I wish they'd release them earlier. I'm really looking forward to next episode, I wonder what the season cliff hanger will be this year.

SPOILERS _______________________________



Although the season didn't end on a cliffhanger like the previous two, I felt it tied everything together pretty well. I think they didn't want to go too intense on the finale considering what happened in the previous episode, I am still recovering from that. I can't wait for next season!

Sorry, Lindir. I've looked into spoiler tags before but still haven't found a way to make it work. For now, continue with the black text or just giving everyone a warning ahead of time.

Yeah, the finale was very subdued and I was ok with that, though I was hoping for more of a cliffhanger.

Bear in mind as I have not read the books as I write this, but is George R.R. Martin in love with Daenarys Targeryan? With each episode that airs, my tolerance for the character grows thinner and thinner. She is taking on messiah-like qualities now and seems to do no wrong. Her quest to free everyone from slavery conveniently ignores the fact that all these freed people are now going to die in her war. Nice trade-off. At any rate, she's irritating, arrogant, smug, and self-entitled to the extreme. Why do good people like the Starks get sadistically punished by the authour week after week, yet someone like her just has everything falling from the sky for her? And yes, I know she had a rough time in Season 1, but it's getting to be a little much now. If there's any balance in this story, she has to suffer some setback soon, and I hope to be in the front row to see it happen.

Most characters face setbacks at some stage. With some being more fatal than others. I believe she will have hers soon. I do like Daenarys, however I agree with what you're saying. My two favourite characters are Littlefinger and Varys. Both low-born common folk, yet they are the best players of the game.

The reason Geroge treats the Starks the way he does is because he wants to show that awful things tend to happen to good people, or at least the people we believe are good. It's really how things work in real life, because good people aren't willing to do the things they need to in order to survive the game.

I'm trying to figure out who could possibly survive all of this at the end. As much as I love Littlefinger, by the way I like him but I don't like the awful things he's capable of, I doubt he'll sit the throne. I think there's more to him, things that we haven't uncovered yet.

I love the moral ambiguity!

I have only read the first book. However, a lot of stuff was spoiled for me, things such as the red wedding and some stuff for the next season. I have noticed that the Game of Thrones book fans, not all of course, are very very inconsiderate towards fans of the show and enjoy spoiling things whilst hiding behind petty statements such as "Oh well the book has been out for years so its not really a spoiler!" why ruin it for others?

Well I have to say that I am actually disappointed with the season finale. Having read these books long ago and being just as big a fan of the series as I am of Hobbit/LotR, I am sad to see how much season 3 is straying from the story. The changing of names, adding characters, even creating/removing major events is a little much for me. That said, I enjoy watching the series for what it is, much like Jackson's films to Tolkien's works.

Val: I agree with your dislike for Dany's presentation, mainly because she is a much different character in the book. She is much more human; makes mistakes, has regret, fear, doubts, etc. Too much of her story is being changed for my liking, but I assume it is the result of her, much like Tyrion, being a fan favorite of the series, so they try to raise them on a pedestal as high as possible.

I have been trying not to spoil anything for anyone, hopefully I haven't in the past, and would be more than happy to answer any questions or straighten out any facts for anyone who would like it.

Well, listening to hear you say those things about the show is a double-edged sword. Dany or no Dany, I love the show and fear that if I read the books now, it will forever alter my perception of the show to something lesser because, as you say, it is growing increasingly less faithful to its literary roots. On the other hand, having e xp erienced the show first, it could very well negatively impact my enjoyment of the books because I will be e xp ecting things to go a certain way, and clearly they won't in some cases.

Since I began with the show, I think I will stick with it, then once it's over and some time has passed, I will pick up the books and give them a read.

By the way, has George said how many books there will be in total before this story concludes or is he keeping it open-ended?

[quote=""RosereIII""]

I have been trying not to spoil anything for anyone, hopefully I haven't in the past, and would be more than happy to answer any questions or straighten out any facts for anyone who would like it.[/quote]

Don't worry Rosere, it wasn't you or anyone else here on the forum I was talking about the people you find on youtube and the Game of Thrones facebook page.

Watching the series then reading the books is probably the most enjoyable order. You enjoy the series for what it is, then get to e xp erience the real deal afterwards. The casting and acting is outstanding, maybe the best part of the series; and the actors have definitely taken over the characters in my head, even as I re-read the books.

As for the number of books, there will be seven total; only five of which have been published so far. One bad thing, is that Martin is notorious for being VERY slow at releasing the next installment. That said, season 3 was only the first half of book 3, so HBO may be able to draw out the series as they wait for the final two books.

I have been contemplating reading the books now... I dont think it will be a detriment for me. I watched all the Harry Potter movies and am now on the 7th book, and I enjoy the books even tho some of the events are different, etc.

[quote=""RosereIII""]As for the number of books, there will be seven total; only five of which have been published so far.[/quote]


Well, GRRR! Martin (as many anxious readers call him) actually took 6 yrs to release the 5th book of what had originally been slated as a trilogy. I really think his penchant for radical plot changes is making it difficult for him to finish. At this point, he 'envisions' it being 7 books, but holds out the possibility it will be require more to tell the story he is trying to tell. Frankly, I fear his book series may go the way of the "Wheel of Time" series with the author kicking it before completion. Let's hope not. Either way, if he takes anywhere near as long with book 6, HBO will have long-since caught up with him. At that point, the series writers may have to complete it using only his outline which he begrudgingly had to turn over to them for just this reason....

GRRM was on Conan O'Brien last week and mentioned that he does intend to release the 6th book before HBO catches up. He has a while, season 4 will still be on Book 3, then he's got books 4 and 5.

[quote=""BladeCollector""]GRRM was on Conan O'Brien last week and mentioned that he does intend to release the 6th book before HBO catches up. He has a while, season 4 will still be on Book 3, then he's got books 4 and 5.[/quote]

I'm guessing book 5 will be split into two seasons because it's a large book like the 3rd. So thats another 4 seasons/years before we get to book 6. George may have completed the Winds of Winter and begun work on the final book in that time.