This is for my ongoing quest to continue weathering LotR swords, so here's the question:

Does anyone know what metal are the hilt parts made out of, and what metals are they usually plated with?

Thanks in advance, everyone!

I know this is barely any help, but I recall once when the construction of the hilt for Glamdring specifically was being discussed, that the main metal used is zinc. This is also the same metal used for the 'faux' broken blade on the Shards of Narsil. You will notice that both the Glamdring hilt and the Shards have a very similar feel, colouration, and patina.

That is not barely any help, Valkrist- that is an immense help!

I had been thinking about using the same chemical on the hilt as I did on the blade (which reminds me, I've gotta upload pics- the dirt and acid was a success!), but any zinc alloy would not do well under that same chemical.

Thanks for the info, Valkrist- I'm thinking bleach or lye now that zinc is on the table...

i remember coming across something about this on this forums and i forget where i saw it. i think it had something to do with a discussion about Kit Rae but i don't remember. there was if i remember correctly a mention of brass i think and being plated in steel or zinc but i really have no idea. You might want to do a search of the forums for metals like zinc or brass or something like that.

You're welcome, Jam. Hope it all works out well for you. Just to be safe, follow dpeg's suggestion and see if you can't confirm this before proceeding though.

the new production glamdring has a copper guard and pommel which are then plated in zinc

I'm no metallurgist, but I've had to learn a lot about it along the way in my walk of life.
Zinc is a soft metal, it's mainly used to galvanize other metals such as nails and metal car parts to prevent rust. I'm quite certain that these sword parts are an aluminum zinc alloy. This mixture allows for both strength and ease in the casting process. Aluminum alone tends to become brittle when casting and the zinc reduces this.
My Narsil fell over when I had it set on it's blade tip on the floor leaning against a table. It broke where the pommel meets the grip so I got a good look at the metal casting, sure looks like aluminum zinc alloy to me (not to mention that brittle aspect of my comments).
Anyway, copper has gotten e xp ensive and is usually used in electroplating to increase conductivity and bonding; example: an aluminum wheel that gets chrome plating is usually plated in brass, then copper, then chrome.
When my chrome plated wheel began to peel, the brass/copper was clearly evident under the chrome (stuck to the backside of the chrome, not stuck to the aluminum wheel).
Hope that provides a little insight.
You should PM Kit Rae, Nosnandos, he's a member here in the forum. I'll bet he knows some exact answers to your question.

Thanks for the further info, Thranduil! I'll definitely send Mr. Rae a PM as well, thanks for the tip.

A bit late, but I suspect the these parts are made of die cast zinc and then plated with other metals. I only have two pieces, but it looks to me like the the Legolas bolster and pommel as well as the sheath fittings are plated with with karat gold. Sting guard pommel and sheath fittings look to be plated with nickle (brushed nickle)

Die cast zinc alloys: http://www.metalcastingdesign.com/content/view/110/314/

Nickle faucet: http://www.amazon.com/Price-Pfister-F04 ... 076&sr=8-2

or check the faucet section of the hardware store next time you go (and bring Sting).

Tim

Confirmation on the nickel:

http://www.ucforums.com/showthread.php?t=4832&page=2


[quote=""Domenicnas""]

I emailed UC and Kit Rae about it and was told the cast parts are actually plated in a type of dark nickel or brass to get the right metal look, polished a bit with steel wool to brighten it, then clear coated to seal it from the air. Apprently any type of plating other than chrome will oxidize in open air.[/quote]

Tim

I have Glamdrings blue scabbard (from, new UC, same brown box style though) And it is definatley copper underneath - the silver coloured plating was missing on a tiny patch. Hope this helps somehow !

[quote=""Jamie Shakespeare""]I have Glamdrings blue scabbard (from, new UC, same brown box style though) And it is definatley copper underneath - the silver coloured plating was missing on a tiny patch. Hope this helps somehow ![/quote]


Copper is used as the base layer for plating many metals. Nickel plating process would be copper plate followd by the nickel plate.

Chrome plating goes copper, nickel, chrome

Gold plating is copper, nickel, gold.

tim

So what if you want something copper-plated? Do you go copper, nickel, copper?

[quote=""Darlak""]So what if you want something copper-plated? Do you go copper, nickel, copper?[/quote]

That might be possible and would be more durable than just copper, but I have neard heard of doing it that way (that does not mean much though).

Copper by itself is not a very durable finish. Its the nickel (and chrome)) that is hard and durable.

What do you want to have copper plated?

Tim

It was meant as a silly joke, but you countered it well =P

Actually, I have an actual question, you obviously know loads more than me on the matter.

Is it possible to darken metal? I'm not talking about giving it a coat of anything, but literally darkening the actual metal.

[quote=""Darlak""]It was meant as a silly joke, but you countered it well =P[/quote]

Turns out is actually is a valid question and so turns the joke around on the joker.

If one wanted a durable copper finish over a zinc part (like the UC sword parts) copper/nickel/copper would probably work.


[quote=""Darlak""]Actually, I have an actual question, you obviously know loads more than me on the matter.

Is it possible to darken metal? I'm not talking about giving it a coat of anything, but literally darkening the actual metal.[/quote]

Yes, there are lots of ways to chemically darken metal, usually by using a strong oxidizer. Its often called antiquing. Heat the piece (to accelerate the oxidation) and dip it in the solution. Piece will come out basically black, so then its polished on all the raised areas to leave the darkening in the recesses.

Oxidation solutions are different for different metals. Copper, silver, steel and jewelry karat gold (10-18 kt) are relatively easy to oxidize. Brass, nickel, stainless steel, chrome plate, not so much...

tim

I'm thinking steel, gonna make my own sword when I get around to it =)

Thanks for the help

[quote=""Darlak""]I'm thinking steel, gonna make my own sword when I get around to it =)

Thanks for the help[/quote]


If you are forging your sword, you could just leave the black fire scale on it from heating, hardening and tempering. If doing an orc knife/sword, that is the way to go. My silver and gold oxidizers will work on non-stainless steel.

There is bluing like that used on firearms.

Tim

Yes- the most popular used on standard non-stainless steel is in Birchwood-Casey's line of bluing compounds. Perma-blue is what I use whenever I want to darken a bit of steel.

I'm doing a dark elf sword, so it has to be dark and sinister looking, yet spotless.

[quote=""Darlak""]I'm doing a dark elf sword, so it has to be dark and sinister looking, yet spotless.[/quote]

Bluing or black parkizing (phosphate finish)would be your best bet.
Bluing something as large as a sword with an even finish is not something easily done at home. You will probably need to find gunsmith or or gun finisher that does hot bluing.

Phosphate finish is easier to do but still requires a stainless steel tank that will hold your blade and tang and also requires some practice.

Bluing will be shiny, while the phosphate finish will be fairly flat with almost no shine.

Tim

Sorry, I'm a dingbat. I'll E xp lain what I'm gonna do this time, properly.

See, I'm only gonna darken the hilt and pommel parts, do a dark gray. I don't want the gray to be bluish, but more earthly coloured, if you know what i mean. Like a dark gray rock you might find on a riverbank.

If I still need a rustfree steel tank, I suppose that won't be a problem, I've got all the materials I need, and I have no problems when it comes to welding rustfree.

I'm also gonna acid etch the blade, but I got all that covered. Will probably have to check out some guides though.

OK, then it sound like you will want to parkerize. Parking can be done in colors ranging from almost clear through light grays and gray greens into medium and dark grays and all the way to black.

Will take some research and e xp erimentation to get the color you are looking for but it can be done.

Tim


[quote=""Darlak""]Sorry, I'm a dingbat. I'll E xp lain what I'm gonna do this time, properly.

See, I'm only gonna darken the hilt and pommel parts, do a dark gray. I don't want the gray to be bluish, but more earthly coloured, if you know what i mean. Like a dark gray rock you might find on a riverbank.

If I still need a rustfree steel tank, I suppose that won't be a problem, I've got all the materials I need, and I have no problems when it comes to welding rustfree.

I'm also gonna acid etch the blade, but I got all that covered. Will probably have to check out some guides though.[/quote]