I've been collecting LOTR UC replicas for a while now, but not since the start as it were, I don't know how many people know this, but I found it too cool to not post. I was browsing the net looking at UC sword videos people had posted, and came across some amazing images of things they were planning. I tried to post the pics here but I can't seem to work it out, they are in my gallery and I'll keep trying to put them here too, but seriously take a look in my gallery!

I've attatched the images, I can't seem to post them to view in the thread ...

Yeah, makes you kind of sick, doesn't it.

There is Guthwine in all its glory... and it may as well be in another galaxy (far, far away). It will never see the light of day here.

Yup. UC has a habit of completely ignoring us, the fans and customers, and instead look at past trends to determine which products to release. As much as I love their products, their customer service is completely insane in its non-existence. Any other collectible company in the world has a better PR department than UC.

Pretty sure that is the Guthwine that Jash owns. He purchased it from Kit and the scabbard looks identical.

I came across a post the other day mentioning that someone owns it ... I'd love to see some pictures if you're out there Jash!

He has pics in the gallery, Jamie:

http://www.ucforums.com/photopost/showp ... photo=4480

http://www.ucforums.com/photopost/showp ... photo=4476

http://www.ucforums.com/photopost/showp ... photo=4478

http://www.ucforums.com/photopost/showp ... photo=4481

What a lucky guy, eh?!?

I take it that's a prototype UC were working on? (I assume they get the prop from Weta/New Line, take loads of measurments etc, make a copy/prototype then send it back, and later decide whether or not to make it available to buy) That's one immensely lucky guy! Here's hoping they release some new pieces after Christmas, and hopefully this is one of them.

Jash owns a Weta-made Guthwine?!

If you can read this, Jash... AWESOME! Talk about a fantastic piece- very belated congratulations to ya, Jash

EDIT: And all those products they had concepts for... Really hope they make them someday...

[quote=""Rough666""]What a lucky guy, eh?!? [/quote]

Aluminum blade. Pffft...

Is it WETA made, or a United cutlery prototype? Man all this talk of UC goodness ... I really want a new piece of sword or something LOTR right now, it's been a long while ...

I've just had an epiphany of sorts ... there's another few images on the video I found of items UC were planning, and one is the Sword of Theodred, Theoden's son. Now, on the Making Of documentaries in the EE LOTR sets, it tells us that Eomer originally had green armour, but this was changed to red because it looked better, or some other reason. Now, when you look at Theodred's sword, it looks almost identical to Eowyn's sword, the 'sister' to it. Can we assume from this that Eomer and Theodreds armour was swapped, and also their swords? this would make sense, Eomer and Eowyn bieng brother and sister sharing similar swords, and the Guthwine we know, which is very cool looking, was originally intended for the kings son, Theodred? This does look more regal, and shares a double fuller, like his fathers sword, herugrim. Opinions on this? I think it does fit, is this old news?

Not sure what you're saying here...Guthwine always was Eomer's Sword, that's straight from J.R.R. Tolkien's novel.

And yes, those have been around quite a while, although the Sauron Mace is news to me. So unfair that only Jash can feast his filthy little eyes on Guthwine.


Oh and ed...you and your fancy blade, ppsh. It's only like the holy grail of sword collecting.

Sorry about that, It wasn't worded very well What I meant is, I know a sword called Guthwine is Eomers sword, but maybe the name was also transferred from one design to the other perhaps? When they swapped the two sets of armour, the sword with twisted horses heads (which is similar to Theoden's with the double fuller) was given to Eomer and called Guthwine, and his original sword (green, like his original armour and very similar to his sisters, Eowyn) was transferred to Theodred? It just seems strange to me for cousins to share almost identical swords, it's much more logical for Brother/Sister to share similar ones, and knowing Eomer's armour was swapped, it is plausible I think

Understood. Maybe, I really don't know. All I know is I want both of the Rohan swords made regardless, and it will never happen.

Here's hoping, maybe we will all be able to rejoice when they release their 2011 product list, maybe they'll have some treats in store!

[quote=""Jamie Shakespeare""]Sorry about that, It wasn't worded very well What I meant is, I know a sword called Guthwine is Eomers sword, but maybe the name was also transferred from one design to the other perhaps? When they swapped the two sets of armour, the sword with twisted horses heads (which is similar to Theoden's with the double fuller) was given to Eomer and called Guthwine, and his original sword (green, like his original armour and very similar to his sisters, Eowyn) was transferred to Theodred? It just seems strange to me for cousins to share almost identical swords, it's much more logical for Brother/Sister to share similar ones, and knowing Eomer's armour was swapped, it is plausible I think [/quote]
Yeah I'd say that's very plausible in theory. I never understood why they would make the heir's sword less dramatic of a design to the nephew.

[quote=""Thranduil""]Yeah I'd say that's very plausible in theory. I never understood why they would make the heir's sword less dramatic of a design to the nephew.[/quote]

I never understood why:

ahem...

1. Frodo never sold Bag End
2. Farmer Maggot was hostile to the Hobbits
3. We skipped Buckland?
4. Where's Bill Ferny?
5. Strider can fight five undead fighting machines
6. Who the heck is Glorfindel?
7. No one happened to notice three hobbits sneaking around while they decided the fate of Middle-earth
8. Gimli pulled an axe out of a crushed tomb
9. The goblins didn't chase the Fellowship
10. Haldir didn't want to aid the Fellowship
11. Legolas never shot the Fell Beast
12. The Uruk scouts didn't have bows

...you get the drift.

So now we know, the original Guthwine is portrayed as theodreds sword, so if anyone wants a true Guthwine, just re-grip an eowyn sword with green! Hint hint Thranduil
Yeah, I think the biggest problem in that list is the Haldir one - thousands of years old and he cant see that helping to destroy the ring would destroy Sauron? those Elves are slow on the uptake ...

[quote=""Jamie Shakespeare""]
Yeah, I think the biggest problem in that list is the Haldir one - thousands of years old and he cant see that helping to destroy the ring would destroy Sauron? those Elves are slow on the uptake ...[/quote]


That's not the point. It's not in Haldir's character to shun Aragorn and the Fellowship. Haldir knew they would likely come this way, Elrond's sons told them about the Fellowship, that's implied in Many Meetings. Those are all screw ups on Peter Jackson's part, that whole list.

That's what I meant, he is portrayed the way I said in the film, which is wrong like you say Fingolfin

[quote=""ed209""]Aluminum blade. Pffft...[/quote]

No wonder you and Sed are best friends.
Step one- drawing on paper.
Step two- Wooden model
Step three- Prototype made of easier to work but similar materials (aluminum) to the reach the goal.
Step four- The production version (in this case it would have been stainless steel).
Step five- The LE
Step six- The real deal MC version
Step seven- The real deal Master Swordsmiths version.

Pfft... How did you get that Anduril? FOTR EE Peter Lyon e xp lains the process.

United Cutlery is not a master swordsmith, they're a production company. Peter Lyon may skip the other steps to create a prototype, but he didn't have to pay $50,000 USD to do so did he?

Guess what ed? $2500 of your Anduril went to Warner Bros.

And $1666 of all these Glamdring's will go to them as well.

Hi Andrew

Sorry for my slow reply.

If you wish to create and sell replica products from LOTR, then you need to get a license from Warner Bros. They own the rights to all the movie images and props for LOTR , it is their Intellectual Property.

Please note, getting a license is no simple task. Generally speaking, movie studios only sell licenses to companies who are set up for manufacturing / sales / distribution / financial reporting, etc. You will need to pay an up front advance for the license which generally starts from a minimum of US$25,000. You will also need to sign a 50-odd page contract, with many requirements for the approval process, royalties, free samples, insurance obligations, etc, etc. It is a very complicated process and the contracts are written entirely in favour of the studio. As an individual, you are looking at investing at least US$50,000 to get into this.

This is the very gracious reply I got when inquiring about my Mytril shirt. It is from the Managing Head of Marketing at WETA.

[quote=""Jamie Shakespeare""]That's what I meant, he is portrayed the way I said in the film, which is wrong like you say Fingolfin [/quote]

Agreed.

[quote=""Thranduil""]Guess what ed? $2500 of your Anduril went to Warner Bros.

And $1666 of all these Glamdring's will go to them as well.[/quote]

Disgusting.

As caring and enthusiastic as Peter Lyon and Richard Taylor are about what they do and what they produce, it's the mega-companies overhead that spoil it by imposing huge monetary demands on items which, to be honest, the members of the board have probably never even heard of, but can claim intellectual rights to. It's a horrible feeling to think how much money is going to the person doing the work compared to how much is going to the company (I bet Peter Lyon doesn't get that much per sword)

[quote=""Jamie Shakespeare""] (I bet Peter Lyon doesn't get that much per sword)[/quote]

No, he doesn't.

[quote=""Fingolfin""]No, he doesn't.[/quote]

My guess is that WETA picks up the tab for his license, but the fees there after come off the top.

Peter Lyon is a man who has a labor of love. If it was about money, there wouldn't be a Master Swordsmith Collection. God Bless Him!

[quote=""Thranduil""]No wonder you and Sed are best friends.[/quote]

I'll take that as a compliment. Intelligent people tend to stick together.

What's the point of your post? I understand levels in sword production,
thanks. I simply said "Pffft" for an aluminum version of a particular sword.
(Person who owns it said in another thread that an un-sharpened sword is
not a sword, so I wonder what he thinks about non-steel blades.) It has
nothing to do with your project.

You just sound bitter because you're making something that's illegal to sell.

WB paid $200 million for these films. These films belong to WB now.

When you pay $200 million for something, you may get some intellectual
property in the package.

Wow, that wasn't very nice

I get both sides of the argument, but the tone being used is less than civil. Do we need to go down this road again? Keep to the subject at hand, and drop the personal attacks. I'd hate to start locking up threads that have had such productive discussion in them.

Well said.

[quote=""ed209""]Aluminum blade. Pffft...[/quote]

Regardless of blade material, Jash's Guthwine is a fantastic LOTR prop, and of the rarest form. I'm most envious.

Hmm doesn't bode well for the general collecting body. If Untied cutlery has sold off their prototype, I think this suggests that the Lotr line is well and truly dead.

Oh well. Bring on the hobbit and it's associated merchandising i say. No guthwine but there's orcrist.

The only thing I still hope to see (much against the wishes of everyone else) is the Weathertop line finished. Yeah yeah yeah they disgraced the MC Line, whatever. But I didn't buy Sam's Weathertop Sword because I like shiny things, I bought it to have a set of four to display around Sting, the centerpiece of my Fellowship display. They're dirt cheap to produce, so if they won't give us Guthwine or Faramir's Sword, just finish what you started and call it a wrap.


Then bring on 13 axes, Orcist, and Bard's Sword.

Orcrist is going to look so beautiful... Mmmm

I understand and agree with the aluminium blade argument, but it doesn't count in this case.

First off, it's one of the very few authentic guthwines ever made, among what, 10 others?

Secondly, it's a prototype made by Kit Rae himself, of a sword we will never see produced. (sorry guys, but that seems to be the reality... for now at least)

So yeah, even though it's aluminium, it's definately worth having, or, more than worthy of any collection, really.


So basically, a glamdring in aluminium would be completely worthless, while a Guthwine aluminium prototype made by Kit rar, is not.

Very well said, Darlak. That's exactly what I was thinking to myself: would I ever buy an aluminum sword? Hell, no! Would I buy one the few existing Guthwine prototypes, regardless of the fact that it's aluminum? Hell, yes!

[quote=""Darlak""]

Secondly, it's a prototype made by Kit Rae himself, of a sword we will never see produced. (sorry guys, but that seems to be the reality... for now at least)
So basically, a glamdring in aluminium would be completely worthless, while a Guthwine aluminium prototype made by Kit rar, is not.[/quote]

Just to clarify, I don't believe Kit Rae made this. It was made by WETA and sent to UC for prototyping. That's the story my Boromir Shield has, I purchased it from Kit as well.

From what I understand, several aluminum stunt swords were made for the actors in Lotr for screenuse. If the Guthwine that Jash owns happens to be such a stunt sword, then the collectibility of that item is super high since it's a screenused prop and not just a replica prototype.

But it is quite unlikely because weta owns these screenused props and from what I understand Kit Rae would probably have had to return the props after creating his prototype.

Edit: Actually weta doesn't own the stunt props. New Line Cinema does.

I could be wrong, it wouldnt be the first time, but if I remember correctly, those props were sold off when UC was going out of business, which would not be related to the current UC... heck, even when UC was going out of business, you could get the same exact LotR swords on clearance than what you can get them for now, even the wholesale prices to dealers were down on clearance!

I dont think that the old UC selling off prototypes should be taken as a sign of what will or will not get made, it should be chalked up to the declining popularity as a whole of the LOTR swords, but hopefully the Hobbit will spark interest in the sword collecting craze again. i dont think that the LOTR sword collecting is dead, heck most of us are still collecting (thanks UC for releasing things faster than we could buy them!) and we still get regular new members here that are just starting to collect, so there are some coals left on the fire, but it I dont think it is as blazing as it once was, at least for now hopefully.. maybe the Hobbit will fuel the fire!

As for Guthwine, I only own 1 of the swords of Rohan, my collecting has gone down a little, I am not getting 5-6 new blades a year, but I think its a travesty to not finish the 3 sword set for Rohan. I am a big "complete set" fan along with meaning from the movies/books, but I don't just collect a specific person, which is great if that is what you want to do. I started off getting Aragorn's swords, but then it went to what deal I could best get, but I messed up doing that, I got Isildur's helm because I got a better deal than Elendil's helm, but Elendil's helm was sold out by the time I went to get it.


Sorry for the rambling, my reply about the prototypes just kinda snowballed! Plus its been a while since I made a longer-ish post!!

[quote=""BladeCollector""]I could be wrong, it wouldnt be the first time, but if I remember correctly, those props were sold off when UC was going out of business, which would not be related to the current UC... heck, even when UC was going out of business, you could get the same exact LotR swords on clearance than what you can get them for now, even the wholesale prices to dealers were down on clearance!

I dont think that the old UC selling off prototypes should be taken as a sign of what will or will not get made, it should be chalked up to the declining popularity as a whole of the LOTR swords, but hopefully the Hobbit will spark interest in the sword collecting craze again. i dont think that the LOTR sword collecting is dead, heck most of us are still collecting (thanks UC for releasing things faster than we could buy them!) and we still get regular new members here that are just starting to collect, so there are some coals left on the fire, but it I dont think it is as blazing as it once was, at least for now hopefully.. maybe the Hobbit will fuel the fire!

As for Guthwine, I only own 1 of the sword of Rohan, my collecting has gone down a little, I am not getting 5-6 new blades a year, but I think its a travesty to not finish the 3 sword set for Rohan. I am a big "complete set" fan along with meaning from the movies/books, but I don't just collect a specific person, which is great if that is what you want to do. I started off getting Agarorn's swords, but then it went to what deal I could best get, but I messed up doing that, I got Isildur's helm because I got a better deal than Elendil's helm, but Elendil's helm was sold out by the time I went to get it.


Sorry for the rambling, my reply about the prototypes just kinda snowballed! Plus its been a while since I made a longer-ish post!![/quote]

Good post though, Blade! I like your optimism especially about the Rohan Swords (and I'm a pessimist by nature! )

[quote=""Aragorn""]If Untied cutlery has sold off their prototype, I think this suggests that the Lotr line is well and truly dead.[/quote]

Not exactly. They were getting rid of their stuff once they took all required
CAD drawings. After all info is promptly archived, original sword is not
crucial anymore for replicating.

I'm sure we'll see licensed Guthwine made one day. I think it's inevitable. I'm
not sure when, by who and how, but "The Lord of the Rings" is an all-time
classic already, and demand for it's memorabilia will always be present.
"Sideshow Collectibles" recently made maquettes from "Episode IV" (1977!).

[quote=""BladeCollector""]Sorry for the rambling, my reply about the prototypes just kinda snowballed! Plus its been a while since I made a longer-ish post!![/quote]

Nope; I agree 100% with everything you said there.

[quote=""ed209""]
I'm sure we'll see licensed Guthwine made one day. I think it's inevitable. I'm
not sure when, by who and how, but "The Lord of the Rings" is an all-time
classic already, and demand for it's memorabilia will always be present.
"Sideshow Collectibles" recently made maquettes from "Episode IV" (1977!).[/quote]

Excellent point, ed. I wonder what sort of goodies will be released on the 25th Anniversary

A lot of things determine a collectibles value. How rare it is, is probably the most significant of all. If Guthwine never gets made, Jash has a valuable piece. How many are there?

Seems to me that the original props will always be the most valuable. What thread was it that we discussed that Black Rider on Steed figurine and the fact it was selling at such a high price because it said "Artists proof" on the bottom?

Wouldn't Jash's Guthwine be similar in the same way?

[quote=""Jamanticus""]Jash owns a Weta-made Guthwine?!
If you can read this, Jash... AWESOME! Talk about a fantastic piece- very belated congratulations to ya, Jash [/quote]
Thanks J-man! Sorry i'm a bit late to this HUGE 1 day thread - i wrote my last term exam yesterday and was *cough* "celebrating" all nite..lol. Had it since UC started going under... Really is one of the prizes in my collection, and i am still so grateful that i ended up with it

[quote=""ed209""]
(Person who owns it said in another thread that an un-sharpened sword is
not a sword, so I wonder what he thinks about non-steel blades.)[/quote]
That i did... I believe that an un-sharpened sword defeats the purpose of that object, hence, not a true sword. A great sword replica though? For sure. Do "sword" collections need to have sharpened blades? No - because it is the idea of the sword and the history that it represents which attracts most people to the item, right? I mean...most of my European swords are not sharpened... In terms of non-steel blades - ur "ppfffttt" was justified..lol, it isn't steel. But it's still one kick-ass Movie Prop i think...

It has been a while, and all my documents on the Guthwine are back home - but i hope i have these facts correct:
According to Mr. Rae and the documentation i received - there were only a handful of Guthwine props made, mainly because it did not get as much screentime as the other swords. Of the 5 to 7ish, most went to people involved in the movie, and most were too beat up to be used as prototypes. So either Weta made another Guthwine for UC to use or cleaned up the last prop made..and that is the one i have. I hope that cleared a few things up....? Oh, and Mr. Rae took a lot of pictures on measurements of the sword before he sent it to me - so there is still a chance UC might make Guthwine one day

[quote=""Jash""] In terms of non-steel blades - ur "ppfffttt" was justified..lol, it isn't steel. But it's still one kick-ass Movie Prop i think... [/quote]

I think at last we understand one another, Jash.

Cheers, buddy.

Hey all! Hope all is well, I've been away for a while but always lurking and checking in on new posts.

Back to the OP's images... it really does make one sad to see some of the cool stuff we may never see. Heck, I'm not a huge fan of the Sauron stuff, but seeing that Mace with the display stand... I would have had to buy that instantly!

As for the other discussions. I really hope Guthwine gets produced. I love the look of that sword and it would really complete the set. Hoping we see more action soon with the Hobbit ramping up!

Oh Guthwine.. that would be great. When does UC usually release their list of new items for the upcoming year?

[quote=""Snow""]Oh Guthwine.. that would be great. When does UC usually release their list of new items for the upcoming year?[/quote]

They don't, because they never make anything new any more.

Hey guys, I've got some bad bad news, news which I hope is incorrect, but I'm sure it's not. I emailed United Cutlery's contact email on their site a few days ago, to ask if anything new was planned to be released after Christmas, as I was anxious to know whether I should save the money I have for a new piece. This is the reply I recieved from Kim Nesmith:

Jamie,

Unfortunately the Lord of the Rings line has come to an end. When we run out the items that we have now, there will be no more.

Sorry for any inconvenience this has caused you.

Thanks,
Kim


As I say, I'm hoping this is a mistake by a sales rep or secretary or something, but its straight from UC. Unless it's incorrect, or they've been told to say nothings coming out to hide the releases, or they're waiting until the hobbit, I guess this is confirmation that the United Cutlery LOTR line is now officially finished. Rest in peace