Wow, I didn't think UC was going to alter the replica at all... If the final product is colored the way the picture looks, I'll be glad of their increased attention to detail, even if it came several years later than we were hoping.

These photos are a bit larger.


And here is my original with the modded grip.

[quote=""Nasnandos""]These photos are a bit larger.[/quote]

Kit,
Do you know when they plan on releasing the new daggers? Also, did they use the same molds as the previous dagger? I noticed that the specs are different.

Probably September/October if they have released specs and images already. Where have the specs been posted?
EDIT - never mind. I found them.

Yes, same tooling and molds as the LOTR version. I gave them new corroded etching art for the blade but the proto they sent me used the old etch art so that may look exactly the same in production too.

[quote=""Nasnandos""]Probably September/October if they have released specs and images already. Where have the specs been posted?
EDIT - never mind. I found them.

Yes, same tooling and molds as the LOTR version. I gave them new corroded etching art for the blade but the proto they sent me used the old etch art so that may look exactly the same in production too.[/quote]

Awesome. It sounds like it is going to be a busy couple of months for United and my wallet with all these new items coming out!

Kit , I received an email from BudK , I'm sure a bunch of us have , in regards to a Q and A they had with you , meet a knife designer . In one picture you are holding Fili's sword , in the background is Kili's and Deathless . Is there still a possibility of a UC Deathless , or was it just there ? Would it possibly be one of the non metal weapons as you stated before it was just to heavy to produce in steel . Thanks for all of your insite .

That was an old photo from the Blade magazine article last November or December. I did some preliminary work on it. It would have been a steel bladed replica. Noble was preselling theirs late last year so United never went forward with their version, and I don't blame them. As far as I know, the Deathless status is 'permanently on hold'.

Considering it will likely only appear briefly in H2, and then never be seen again, chances seem slim. It's too bad. That was actually my favorite sword from H1.

I just spotted Fili's sword on eBay and in the description it is listed as a pre-order, with the release date slated for Sept.16th.

Just an FYI.

BudK also has 'e xp ected by' dates listed for Fili's (Sept 8th) and Kili's (Sept 22nd) swords. I've had them on pre-order for some time so I should hopefully be getting these pieces from their first available shipments.

Well, it's official, Orcrist scabbard is coming, just don't know when.

http://www.unitedcutlery.com/ProductDet ... 964&cat=HB

Hope with the release of this it paves the way for other metalized resin replicas.

I generally don't go for the scabbards, but I just might spring for this one...

Since United has officially released it I suppose it's OK for me to show these.

Here's a large one of the sword in the scabbard.
http://www.kitrae.net/fantasy/images/Ho ... rd%204.jpg

Wow, thanks for the photo's Kit! Looks like a nice and tight fit. Any ideas on release date? or if there are more items to be released closer to DOS? Don't need specifics just checking to see if more items are in store.

No idea. They should be in production now, so I would e xp ect within the next few months they will be shipping. I know the Morgul Dagger and Fili sword are shipping now, but I have not seen anything from production yet myself. I may get to see them next week.

I got to see the Noble Deathless sword a few days ago. Now I really wish United had made one instead!

Ok.... that drew me out of my self imposed exile... man that thing is beautiful!

Kit, when will UC be allowed to unveil the new Hobbit replicas? I'm waiting to pre-order the scabbard to see what else comes out first. Still hoping for Tauriel's daggers

Such a big distraction from my work!

I does look nice. The sword really does not work without the scabbard IMO. I wish United could have sold it with the scabbard.

I think the press release for the film 2 line is coming next month, but I don't think anything will be shipping until next year so don't e xp ect photos. Should include a couple of Tauriel things.

[quote=""Nasnandos""]I does look nice. The sword really does not work without the scabbard IMO. I wish United could have sold it with the scabbard.

I think the press release for the film 2 line is coming next month, but I don't think anything will be shipping until next year so don't e xp ect photos. Should include a couple of Tauriel things.[/quote]

Oh ok thats pretty good I suppose, means I can put this bad boy on my christmas list and not have to worry about making any "tough decisions" on which replica to buy

A couple of Tauriel things ay? Bow, daggers, or maybes she has other things we haven't seen yet can't wait!

Thanks for sharing the photos Kit

You mentioned deathless, are united still not wanting to do it? Fili's sword looks great from the photos I've seen and I would certainly buy deathless were UC to make it.

Thanks for sharing those photos , Kit, the scabbard looks amazing.

Now, when you say you saw Noble's Deathless and that you wish UC had made their own version, why is that? Is the Noble version so poor in your opinion that having seen it now, you are confident UC could have done a much better job? I ask simply because I am considering picking it up and would value your honest assessment as a weapons designer.

I probably shouldn't comment because I have not seen if United did any better with their Fili/Kili swords in production, which are similar in how they had to me made as Deathless. I just know what could have been done had United gone forward with their replica. I am also biased because I have an actual prop to compare Nobles too.

So I'll just say...the Noble plaque looks nice

lol... Ok, your silence speaks volumes.

The main sore point with people who have bought Deathless is that the blade's appearance is poor because no effort was made to distress it unlike Fili's sword, and I have seen side by side photo comparisons so I have to agree. However, not having any alternative, I may still buy it. I wish UC had made one, but then I wish UC had made a lot of other things.

Yeah, there was nothing done to the blade. It just looks like the raw cast metal surface. Out of the mold and stuck in a handle. I was hoping it would be close, something that could be customized and weathered to match the film prop, but the blade and hilt shapes are not correct either. Close enough for most people I suppose, but I think the fact that the hilt is one piece of cast metal is not going to be that appealing to most people either.

So does this mean we'll be seeing more polyresin items from UC in the future? If so I think it will make the possibilities of prop that weren't possible to now be done.

Maces, shields, bows, quivers, etc..

There are several new polyresin pieces in the works. I think I already mentioned Sauron's mace from LOTR was in the works. There are several H2 replicas that will by poly, and a few that will be regular steel bladed replicas. I'm hoping they consider poly for everything they have decided not to do in real materials, even if they are just short run limited editions. Better than not doing them at all.

United could do Deathless in poly I suppose, and the cool Dwarven frog/scabbard could be included if they did it that way, but I'm not sure it would sell when there is a steel bladed version already out there.

Awesome stuff Kit, thanks! I have to agree that I would most likely prefer a Noble steel version to a UC poly version, unless UC really nailed the prop.

Really like the pics of the Orcrist Scabbard, shows a lot of potential for more than just the traditional sword and dagger releases when it comes to weapons. Very excited to see some new releases for the next film, as I've nearly completed my desired collection of available items.

[quote=""Nasnandos""]There are several new polyresin pieces in the works. I think I already mentioned Sauron's mace from LOTR was in the works. There are several H2 replicas that will by poly, and a few that will be regular steel bladed replicas. I'm hoping they consider poly for everything they have decided not to do in real materials, even if they are just short run limited editions. Better than not doing them at all.

United could do Deathless in poly I suppose, and the cool Dwarven frog/scabbard could be included if they did it that way, but I'm not sure it would sell when there is a steel bladed version already out there.[/quote]

I'm really counting on Sauron's mace to finally make it to market, one piece I really, really want. I also hope it does well and they make more, maybe even the Witchking mace.

[quote=""RosereIII""]Awesome stuff Kit, thanks! I have to agree that I would most likely prefer a Noble steel version to a UC poly version, unless UC really nailed the prop.

Really like the pics of the Orcrist Scabbard, shows a lot of potential for more than just the traditional sword and dagger releases when it comes to weapons. Very excited to see some new releases for the next film, as I've nearly completed my desired collection of available items.[/quote]

I did get a chance to see UC's Darksiders swords in person and the polyresin has plenty of heft to it and also looks the part. I think the biggest problem with these faux weapons is the sheen on the other parts such as metal and leather. They seem to come out too glossy and take away the feeling of an actual steel replica.

Kit, how fragile is the material? I ask because I fear I would tie Orcrist around my waist or over my back and the belt loop would snap. I don't think UC would make anything that would do that but I'd like to know for sure.

A shame UC couldn't make the belt for Orcrist, it would have completed it perfectly

The belt loop is cast into the polyresin. There is a wire frame inside for support, so it holds the weight. But one hard bang into something solid or jerk it the wrong way and I would worry about a fracture. I would not go wearing it around at a convention or anything like that. I really added the loop more to have something to display it with, but it can be worn if one is careful.

Still, it is polyresin, and it is very thin. The first test was much thicker, but it just looked awful. The second one was almost as thin as the polyurethane prop, and tightly fit the sword, but the weight of the sword literally pulled the two halves of the scabbard apart. The final design has a series of small rivets on the belt loop side for structural support, a less tight to the blade sides. You can see one in the belt loop photo. I added a thin felt lining inside to prevent the blade from being scratched.

I really wish they had put more thought into the strapping and harness system as they did with the LOTR weapons. There was nothing on the prop so a steel bracket was literally bolted to the back side to allow Thorin wear it in the film, but you can clearly see in a few scenes where it is being handled that there is nothing to fasten a belt to. A simple loop at the top near the scabbard mouth and one at the widest point on the scabbard body would have worked and looked fine.

I wonder if the weta harness will be enough to support the larger scale version. The two thin straps attaching to the belt don't look like they'd hold up to much.

I don't wear my scabbards very often and don't really attend conventions so it's not gonna be a big deal for me but I'm glad you added the loop

I'm really excited that it's finally being made, it will look great on display! Hopefully the poly resin will allow UC to make more items such as Tauriel's quiver

Just an FYI, I saw production Fili and Kili swords yesterday and can confirm they look good and match the prototype photos United released. They did a really good job on the batch I saw.

Kit, I noticed in the trailer that when Legolas is wielding Orcrist in Laketown there are leather straps attached to the side of the scabbard. I guess these were added later and didn't feature in the prop photos or the actual prop you received.

It actually looks like they added an extra piece to make it work. Here's a screenshot for you Kit incase you hadn't seen it:

http://heirsofdurin.files.wordpress.com ... /dos63.jpg

We have seen it, but nothing is actually different about the scabbard itself and it still involves screwing something into the scabbard to make it work.

I can't discuss it since it's a film 2/3 thing, but I actually really like this fleshing out of the story with Legolas/Orcrist. Anyone who read the book knows after Mirkwood, we never see Orcrist until the end of the book when it is given back to Thorin (so to speak).

[quote=""Nasnandos""]We have seen it, but nothing is actually different about the scabbard itself and it still involves screwing something into the scabbard to make it work.

I can't discuss it since it's a film 2/3 thing, but I actually really like this fleshing out of the story with Legolas/Orcrist. Anyone who read the book knows after Mirkwood, we never see Orcrist until the end of the book when it is given back to Thorin (so to speak).[/quote]

Yep, I'm looking forward to seeing PJ handle that scene on film. I'm hoping it'll be great. It's good that Orcrist is getting more screen time with Legolas though, and also these possible feelings for Tauriel. I know some people won't like this addition, but I think it helps to round Legolas out more as a character.

Bard looks impressive as well, his bow looks really cool. I'm still holding out hope UC will consider some bows in the future. Bard's bow and his black arrow would make a pretty good display piece. There's a lot of cool stuff that we can see in the trailer that would make amazing replicas.

In the trailer Gandalf swings his staff round and breaks the entrance into what looks like a cave or tunnel in Dol Guldur and then the eye of Sauron flashes on screen. Perhaps this is how he ends up with Radagast's staff? Maybes Sauron's power breaks it or something, I dunno just speculating

Kit, when will retailers be informed about the Orcrist scabbard replica? The only online store that has it up for pre-order is the one I pre-ordered mine though here in the UK. I would have thought more stores in the US would have had it by now

I would assume if one dealer is showing it, all have been notified, or their distributors have. Pre-order spec sheets are usually sent out all at once as I understand it, and I saw it a few weeks ago.

Has anybody heard whether or not the re-released Morgul Blade is in fact more like the original prop or as smooth and blah as the original release? The UC-generated pics show pitting and such. If it's like it's supposed to be, I'd like to get one. Thanks!

[quote=""MorgulMike""]Has anybody heard whether or not the re-released Morgul Blade is in fact more like the original prop or as smooth and blah as the original release? The UC-generated pics show pitting and such. If it's like it's supposed to be, I'd like to get one. Thanks![/quote]

Yep, there's been at least one person who's received theirs and it looks hugely better in its finish than the last version.

Image courtesy of S&F user Adolfo


As you can see, the pitted areas are darkened like the prop and the grip has a much more accurate wet-wrapped look to it.

Thanks! I've got the Sword Of The Ringwraiths and Sword Of The WK and hoped to one day complete the (available) set with the dagger. I guess we'll never see the shorter RW sword seen in FOTR but beggars can't be choosers!

[quote=""MorgulMike""]Has anybody heard whether or not the re-released Morgul Blade is in fact more like the original prop or as smooth and blah as the original release? The UC-generated pics show pitting and such. If it's like it's supposed to be, I'd like to get one. Thanks![/quote]

It is identical to the LOTR version, just with a paint wash effect applied over the blade pitting (original was pitted too), over the guard and pommel, and some sanding and roughing up of the leather wrap on the grip. The silk screen on the wall plaque is different too.

Thank you Kit!

I rewatched The Hobbit: AUJ tonight for the first time since I saw it in theaters and I must say that I'm really dying for some swords right about now. I'm really excited about UC's scabbard for Orcrist, thanks for the great photos Kit! I'm also really liking how the Fili/Kili swords turned out, and I even want to hop on the NC Deathless bandwagon.

Kit, you mentioned that nothing about the new UC is like the old, except for the name. Does that extend to their production and manufacturing facilities and locations? I recall that the early UC LOTR products were made in Taiwan, and then about halfway through, manufacturing was shifted to China to decrease costs. Are you able to comment on whether you feel this also marked a slight shift in overall quality? Do they ever fly you overseas to have a look at what's being done and how, or do they just ship a batch of samples for you to review personally?

I ask because of the issues that we are seeing with the Kili sword, and am curious if they are being put together by the same people that worked on the LOTR line a few years ago. I'm guessing the problems have more to do with the makeup and process involved with a particular replica rather than something that would extend to all products in general? You did e xp lain in the other thread how and why the Kili and Fili swords are cast differently than previous swords, so clearly this is likely causing some issues, but I wonder if we will see more of this in the future? Aside from some very minor defects with some Orcrist hilts, all the other new UC items seem to be ok thus far.

I meant domestically. Only one person from the old company to the new one the new one. It was basically the name and intellectual property that changed hands here, nothing else. Their factory making the Hobbit swords is the same one that made the old LOTR and current. They moved from Taiwan to China when Taiwan got to e xp ensive to operate in. It was to keep the cost from going up, not bring them down. Unfortunately, nothing ever goes down!

As far as QC inspection, that's not a service I offer through my business, nor do I want any part of it. My clients have their own people for that. I do design, development, and detail materials and processes. I do try and look at some production whenever I visit their US facility - whatever is new that my company worked on and my own products that they make and distribute.

As far as China vs Taiwan quality, I know the quality of my own stuff actually went up when the factory moved. It has slipped back down to Taiwan levels now, but it's a constant battle to keep it up. Whenever a new process is used, or in the case of Kili/Fili, pushing the envelope of an old process, it seems there is always some issue with the first run. I have only seen pix of four online that had what I consider a QC issue. I'm sure thousands have shipped and the stuff I looked through when I was at UC last week was good. It's a sure bet that when I order one I will get a misaligned blade though. That's always my luck.

Always fascinating to hear more about different aspects of this business, especially your role in it. As usual, thanks for sharing your insights with us.

The following was posted on the United Cutlery Facebook page:

Interesting.

I wish UC would make more of an effort to poll forums like ours where serious collectors hang out. Facebook is all fine and good but I wouldn't put much stock or faith in the random comments and spur of the moment enthusiastic one-liners that get made there. The old UC declined to be officially associated with us in the past, and I'm not suggesting the new one should (I'm sure they wouldn't anyway,) but it would be nice to be acknowledged as collectors and supporters. Kit did mention that he passes along some of the comments that we make here but that's about it.

Anyway, just grumbling. Would love to see those two bows made, especially an affordable version of the Legolas Mirkwood bow since the previous, Italian-made one is hard to find and uber e xp ensive.

I would also like to see what they could do with the bows. I wonder what kind of materials they would use? I have no idea what Weta's Tauriel Bow is made out of, or how e xp ensive it's going to be, but I would like to see UC take a stab at it (no pun intended).

@Val: I think social media such as facebook does a good job of reaching a wide audience with instant results. While not exactly useful to base major decisions from, it can be helpful in getting a 'finger on the pulse' of the audience; almost to pre-screen ideas and products. If there's no response from followers and fans on a social network, then the product most likely wouldn't succeed. But I agree that it would be nice if once they get that confirmation, their next step would be to approach the collectors/forums (us!) for more in depth feedback.

@Fin: Seeing these props from UC would be nice. They've done a great job on so many items in the past, but the recent collapse in QA with the Kili Sword has me a little concerned. Hopefully it is just an isolated first batch release, or at worst, just the sword itself and not a decline company-wide.

[quote=""Fingolfin""]I would also like to see what they could do with the bows. I wonder what kind of materials they would use? I have no idea what Weta's Tauriel Bow is made out of, or how e xp ensive it's going to be, but I would like to see UC take a stab at it (no pun intended).[/quote]As I understand it, all of Weta's prop replicas are to be painted polyurethane (hard rubber), like the weapon replicas they released for H1. That's what the filming props are made of, and my old LOTR Legolas Mirkwood bow prop is the same. They are actually flexible so you can make a slight draw with them, although not in any way functional.

United's would be polyresin (if they did them - not confirming ). Not sure if there would be any flex yet.

I'm really anxious to see what UC is releasing for DOS. I know bows won't be in the first wave, or.... at least I don't think they will, but I'm holding out for Tauriel's daggers. But I'm tempted by her bow that Weta is going to be launching for pre-orders soon.

Is anyone here going to pre-order it or are you guys waiting to see if UC does one? I know I asked a while back but I'm interested to see if anyone has changed their mind since then. Kit will you be buying one?

I am kinda waiting to see what UC is going to bring out now as I do prefer the UC items quality . That being said I am very happy with the items I have purchased from WETA . But when two different companies have made the same item , I have purchased UC . Although with the latest issues with Kili's sword leave me a bit anxious . As far as what WETA will be asking for Tauriel's bow , I read it will be in the same price point as Dwalin's Axes . In that respect as well I believe UC will keep their prices in most collectors price range . That price may really keep me on the fence with it .

I would like to see UC do the Mirkwood Bow as I had to sell mine over a year ago , and yes they are selling for high $ when you can find them . So it would be great to replace it with what I believe will be a better more accurate replica , although not usable as that one was .

Very cool, Kit! Is polyresin the material that was used for the non-metal helms?