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Another "good catch". (I missed it)
That is exactly what Cold Cast [any metal] is.
So...I'll not be buying it.
Instead I'll re-visit the Etsy shop of the guy that JJ mentioned that makes Rohan weapons in real metal.

"Eternity is an awful long time, especially towards the end."

"What you see and what you hear depends a great deal on where you are standing.
It also depends on what sort of person you are.” -- CSL

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Nasnandos wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 6:29 pm
Striders_Heir wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:58 am Two samples of the Rohan spear were sent in. A steel version and a resin version. They’re apparently now going to do a cost analysis to see which is the cheaper option.
Not sure where that is coming from, but it's dead wrong.

The poly sample I have looks really cool, and it is going to be made. Just needs a few color tweaks before production.

Kit, it came from here:

image_20704.jpg
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This Space for Rent

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Nasnandos wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 6:29 pm
Striders_Heir wrote: Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:58 am Two samples of the Rohan spear were sent in. A steel version and a resin version. They’re apparently now going to do a cost analysis to see which is the cheaper option.
Not sure where that is coming from, but it's dead wrong.

The poly sample I have looks really cool, and it is going to be made. Just needs a few color tweaks before production.
I literally just took that from one of Drew Hall’s comments in that screenshot above. Word for word. I added the, “They’re apparently now” to the second sentence, but those are his words.

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Striders_Heir wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 7:32 pm I literally just took that from one of Drew Hall’s comments in that screenshot above. Word for word. I added the, “They’re apparently now” to the second sentence, but those are his words.
It sounds like he did not understand what was being sampled and got confused by the 'steel' in the finish description. I don't know when or where that was posted, but I just met with him and the UC group a few days ago. They understand it's resin with powdered metal. Maybe before they just thought it was metal because it looks and feels like it.
KRDS

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Valkrist wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 7:19 pm Kit, you skillfully avoided my question about this surprising news of a half-scale Sauron helm. Is that pure nonsense or something that's actually happening?
I was going to check, but it was close to one in the morning and I was crashing. I'm not sure what they are doing with that, but I think it's some kind of promotional item. I know they are bringing some of the old miniature swords back too, but I'm not sure any of that is going to be in the regular LOTR weapons and arms line. There is not a lot of crossover in the mini collectors and full sized collectors.
KRDS

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Nasnandos wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 4:30 am
Striders_Heir wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 7:32 pm I literally just took that from one of Drew Hall’s comments in that screenshot above. Word for word. I added the, “They’re apparently now” to the second sentence, but those are his words.
It sounds like he did not understand what was being sampled and got confused by the 'steel' in the finish description. I don't know when or where that was posted, but I just met with him and the UC group a few days ago. They understand it's resin with powdered metal. Maybe before they just thought it was metal because it looks and feels like it.
Is this the first item UC has ever tried to cold cast? All of the other polyresin pieces have been painted so far? I know cold casting has it's issues with 2 part molds and the seem clean up can cause defects or removing the metal from those areas. I did notice on the video that was posted there was a lot of dents and dings from casting unless that was intentional as battle damage / aged prop.

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N2darkness wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 5:18 am Is this the first item UC has ever tried to cold cast? All of the other polyresin pieces have been painted so far? I know cold casting has it's issues with 2 part molds and the seem clean up can cause defects or removing the metal from those areas. I did notice on the video that was posted there was a lot of dents and dings from casting unless that was intentional as battle damage / aged prop.
There are dents and dings built into the tooling to replicate the Eomer/Eowyn spear props. Theses are not two part molds, so they should be no seam issues.

UC used the metal powdered resin for the Darksiders poly sword a long time ago. As I recall, the factory prototypes looked great on that, but in production they changed it to painted silver. I think that was because that casting was so huge they ran into problems with that type of material, so I still need to confirm they can make this exactly like the sample.
KRDS

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Nasnandos wrote: Sat Aug 14, 2021 4:30 am
Striders_Heir wrote: Fri Aug 13, 2021 7:32 pm I literally just took that from one of Drew Hall’s comments in that screenshot above. Word for word. I added the, “They’re apparently now” to the second sentence, but those are his words.
It sounds like he did not understand what was being sampled and got confused by the 'steel' in the finish description. I don't know when or where that was posted, but I just met with him and the UC group a few days ago. They understand it's resin with powdered metal. Maybe before they just thought it was metal because it looks and feels like it.
It was definitely a few weeks ago. Or whenever it was brought up here. A few of his posts get edited by him within a day of him posting. Either way, I’m excited for just another new item.

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JJByers wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 4:13 am Hey folks hope everyone's doing well.

Just wanted to pop in and share my Orcrist project that I've been tinkering with so far:

https://youtu.be/LP3XY0qV41Y

I wanted, ha, to make the hilt match the scabbard, and obviously failed lol. But I like what it's become so far. Thinking about making a scabbard core and finding someone with a 3D printer for the detail "metal" work.
LOVE IT!!! These swords just look so good when they're weathered like this.

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JJByers wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 4:13 am Hey folks hope everyone's doing well.

Just wanted to pop in and share my Orcrist project that I've been tinkering with so far:

https://youtu.be/LP3XY0qV41Y

I wanted, ha, to make the hilt match the scabbard, and obviously failed lol. But I like what it's become so far. Thinking about making a scabbard core and finding someone with a 3D printer for the detail "metal" work.
Great job!. now it looks much more realistic.

Someday I would like to dare to do at least one repaint of the fang/handle . To the battle damage I do not dare, although what you have achieved is spectacular, I know I'd ruin it. :P

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Nasnandos wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:22 am I added a few more pix in the KRDS thread.
Thanks for the additional photos! The metallic finish looks great. Hopefully the sales of these are good and we can get some more Rohan spears.

I'd love to the standard spear made someday as well.
Lord-of-The-Rings-The-Fellowship-of-the-Ring-Spear-tip-of-Rohan-1.jpg
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Nasnandos wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:56 am
N2darkness wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:05 am I'd love to the standard spear made someday as well.
Me too, but I think United will want to do the more ornate Theoden version first, rather than that generic Rohan soldier version.
Which one is that? The one that looks like Eomer's but closed loops on the end? Honestly I don't remember him having a spear besides behind the gates of Helm's Deeps after he gets stabbed.
LOTR-TTT-PRODUCT-WEP-HAND005.jpg
theoden.jpg
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Nasnandos wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:14 am It is does well, I'm hoping for more LOTR spears in general. The closed neck Rohan spear, Evlen spears, Gondor, Aeglos, et cetera - there are quite a few I would love to see get made.
Additional good news today! More spears would be excellent. I truly hope they sell well. I also hope the scabbards sell well and we see more of them.

"If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world."

~~ Thorin Oakenshield

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N2darkness wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:38 pm Which one is that? The one that looks like Eomer's but closed loops on the end? Honestly I don't remember him having a spear besides behind the gates of Helm's Deeps after he gets stabbed.
Yes, that one. There were master prop/costume reference photo libraries shot for each character for each film that licensees were given. They included all the costume components, armor, and weapons. I have a partially complete set for TTT and ROTK. Theoden, Eomer, and Eowyn each had their own spear, different from the generic Rohan soldier spear. Eomer's was really the only one clearly shown, but only in a few scenes in TTT and ROTK. In ROTK it seems he just picked a spear up when he took the Mumakil driver down, but that was his character spear. Eowyn's was nearly identical to his, and Theoden's is the closed neck one pictured above.
KRDS

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I don't think I have ever seen that photo before, but if they were for licensees than I probably wouldn't have.

I also noticed another spear tip with a banner on it that I have never seen before either, which looks rather cool as well.
Spear.jpg


You had mentioned that UC would be more willing to make Theoden's spear vs the generic Rohan spear, is that because it would be more recognizable to a specific character?

I'm always curious as how items are ultimately chosen, as some items get mere seconds of screen time, while others are extremely visible throughout the trilogy and yet to be made (I'm looking at you Lothlorien bow!)

I know a lot of factors play into what is made, materials, production cost , proper references, etc
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It has more to do with them wanting to complete collections while there is interest. They did Eomer's sword, helm, and now his spear. Theoden's sword was done and still sells steady. His helm is coming and the response is looking good, so his spear would be next.

I'm not sure why UC does not have a lot of interest in the Legolas bows. They keep getting bumped to the back of the development list, but at least they are still on the list.
N2darkness wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:55 pm I also noticed another spear tip with a banner on it that I have never seen before either, which looks rather cool as well.
There are several unique banner spears and pikes, but I don't have a lot of reference for those, unfortunately.
KRDS

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Nasnandos wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:09 pm It has more to do with them wanting to complete collections while there is interest. They did Eomer's sword, helm, and now his spear. Theoden's sword was done and still sells steady. His helm is coming and the response is looking good, so his spear would be next.

Could that mean we are to expect Théoden's scabbard in the near future, as we're expecting Éomer's? :) And possibly Éowyn's next?
Or is it UC's interest for scabbards not really there?...

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Levidas wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 11:23 am Could that mean we are to expect Théoden's scabbard in the near future, as we're expecting Éomer's? :) And possibly Éowyn's next?
Or is it UC's interest for scabbards not really there?...[/color]
We won't know that until we see how Eomer's scabbard sells first. They are expensive, and with manufacturing costs going insane this year, and still increasing, plus inflation, I think UC will want to be very careful.
KRDS

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Nasnandos wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:46 pm
Levidas wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 11:23 am Could that mean we are to expect Théoden's scabbard in the near future, as we're expecting Éomer's? :) And possibly Éowyn's next?
Or is it UC's interest for scabbards not really there?...[/color]
We won't know that until we see how Eomer's scabbard sells first. They are expensive, and with manufacturing costs going insane this year, and still increasing, plus inflation, I think UC will want to be very careful.
Sure, totally understand.
Will the metal bits of this scabbard be of actual metal? Or cold cast like Éomer's spear tip?

Was talking with a fellow collector on the other day about the 'resin-way' UC has been taking lately. Sure, there's probably a justification for that (mainly less costs, I'm assuming), but that can put us buyers on a possible loose-loose situation: because, either we don't buy the resin products - hoping to send a message that serious collectors are willing to pay extra for metal products -, and UC misunderstood as the LOTR license in not paying-off and not worthy to keep anymore; OR we keep buying the resin items - because it's the only thing we have and we don't want UC to stop making LOTR stuff - and UC never thinks again of going back to metal...
Am I making any sense?

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Levidas wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:31 am Am I making any sense?[/color]
Sorry, not really. Maybe you are not aware, but UC has been making resin and resin+wood LOTR prop replicas since the early days of the license, going back 17 or 18 years now. If there is no way using production methods to make a replica in metal - or whatever the real materials are supposed to be - then the only option is to use materials like resin or fiberglass. That's nearly always been what dictates what materials are used.
KRDS

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Yeah, it's funny how we forget that we had items like the Sauron helm, and the Elven helm and shield already being made in resin around.... what was it, 2005... 2006?

This is what I think Levidas was trying to say:

If UC makes a resin item that collectors think should be made of metal, they might not buy it.

If they don't buy it, then UC could think the reason is because there is no longer an interest in LOTR stuff, and that will make them stop making more stuff.

However...

If the collectors do buy the resin items, then that encourages UC to continue using resin over metal because they figure collectors are ok with, when in fact the collectors are most likely buying them because they have no choice, and if they don't buy it, then UC assumes the first scenario is true and we stop having any kind of replicas.

Thus the loop is closed.

Of course, your answer cleared it up anyway, because UC will always use the best material that is feasible for the given item from a production perspective. Ultimately, it's up to the buyer to figure out what they're ok with in their collection.
This Space for Rent

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Well, there really has not been anything new or reissued in the past 3-4 years that has not flown out the door, so that's not really an issue! As I understand it, LOTR sales the past few years have almost equaled what they were back when the original trilogy came out. Manufacturing materials really don't mean anything as far as what sells.

Materials and manufacturing cost increases and inflation don't mix very well though, so I expect that will probably change next year and things will slow down, but maybe not.
KRDS

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Nasnandos wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 1:03 pm Well, there really has not been anything new or reissued in the past 3-4 years that has not flown out the door, so that's not really an issue! As I understand it, LOTR sales the past few years have almost equaled what they were back when the original trilogy came out. Manufacturing materials really don't mean anything as far as what sells.

Materials and manufacturing cost increases and inflation don't mix very well though, so I expect that will probably change next year and things will slow down, but maybe not.
Even if costs do up a bit, collectors will buy any and everything you guys want to produce. There has been a drought for a few years and many are looking for new items as well as older ones to catch up their collections. UC has herd their masters call and given them what they want. Prices would have to double or sever production delays before people might loose interest IMO.

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N2darkness wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 1:31 pm Even if costs do up a bit, collectors will buy any and everything you guys want to produce.
Sure, but not if collectors have no excess cash for things like this, and cost are going up more than a bit. That also slows down the growth of the collector base. To keep a line going, new collectors must constantly be joining the fray as older collectors trail off. Us die hard collectors are important too, but without growth it will go back to that slow stretch we had between the LOTR and Hobbit movies.

Hopefully things will stay strong in the next few years. The Amazon show could help that as well, it but it may also kill sales of the original trilogy stuff if people are strapped for cash. If the new show is good, and the prop replicas (assuming there are any) are too, the new will win out over the old.
KRDS

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If Star Wars is an indication, LOTR items will continue to sell despite new material being released. Then again the new Star Wars material isn't popular compared to the original trilogy. The amazon show will drum up interest no doubt but I think we'll still have a healthy supply of incoming collectors for at least the next 5-10 years despite it. This resurgence of the past few years is no doubt all those fans that were kids/teens in the early 2000's that now have the disposable income to spend on collectables. UC would do very well to keep doing what they're doing in releasing new items as well as reissues.

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Nasnandos wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:02 pm
Levidas wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:31 am Am I making any sense?[/color]
Sorry, not really. Maybe you are not aware, but UC has been making resin and resin+wood LOTR prop replicas since the early days of the license, going back 17 or 18 years now. If there is no way using production methods to make a replica in metal - or whatever the real materials are supposed to be - then the only option is to use materials like resin or fiberglass. That's nearly always been what dictates what materials are used.

Sure, sorry I wasn't explicit enough. Thanks @Valkrist for the clarification.

Indeed, I've only started collecting a short time ago. I was thinking more of the metal Elendil's and Isildur's helms compared to resin Éomer's and Théoden's, as well as the Rohan spear. But on the other hand, UC is re-releasing those metal helms again, so I understand it's not a matter of lack of material, but the production methods than ultimately determine the materials used in nowadays helms.
So, could we assume that resin helms are not a trend moving forward? That, for example, if the Gondor Helmet was made of metal, than a possible future Faramir Helmet will also be made of metal (because of the similarities - and thus production methods)?

I know you can't promise us anything, but I'd just like to know your opinion Kit :)

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I think I already answered that in my reply to your post above. If the next helm UC does after Theoden's is something that cannot be made properly in metal, it will be resin. If they decide to make something that can be made in metal, like another Gondor helm, it will be metal. Same with weapon replicas. LOTR swords will always be metal, because that's the best material. Something like Aeglos can easily be made in wood and resin, but not wood and metal.
KRDS

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The ole' why polyresin debate lol. As a former, "never resin!" sided person I say do what needs be done. I kinda wish they'd try Gimli's helm in resin. Windlass does great, but, the details you see in film and what you get in hand differ. Cosmetically it can look it pretty close, but lacks... depth, I suppose is the word I'd use. That said I still love the current helm.
I can also say as someone who collected near 15 years, current events have made me stop buying as well. Too much uncertainty about from a "sociopolitonomic" standpoint lol. +2 for created words haha.
But I also do agree with someone's comment, from what I see in the FB group, collectors have hit a point I think they'll buy just about anything too. You still see your, "reissue that" crowd and the, "new stuff only" critics but either way sales are there. I don't think Amazon is gonna contribute much other than to their own track record of bombing shows if speculation holds true. Once I saw Tom.Shippey was no longer involved I assume they (Amazon) deviated hard on something.
I digress, anyway, was glad to hear Isildur's Sword was returning. The $1500+ price tags was just insanity imo.
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Nasnandos wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 4:26 am I think I already answered that in my reply to your post above. If the next helm UC does after Theoden's is something that cannot be made properly in metal, it will be resin. If they decide to make something that can be made in metal, like another Gondor helm, it will be metal. Same with weapon replicas. LOTR swords will always be metal, because that's the best material. Something like Aeglos can easily be made in wood and resin, but not wood and metal.

Understood! It makes sense, thanks Kit :thumbs_up

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JJByers wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:12 am Also whats with the new Sauron Mace "Red Eye Edition" on BudK? Just riding the horse into ground Valyrian Steel style or what?
Yeah this stinks. Much like the special edition Sauron helm, UC have found a way to work around 'limited editions' to have best of both worlds - advertise the first run as limited (which is meaningless when they are releasing like 5000, there aren't that many collectors out there) and then release things like the 'red eye' version later. They've now realised they don't need to be truthful with collectors, they can bend the 'rules of the game' to increase sales.

BUT

It won't stop me buying new products, as I don't buy for the resale value. Might knock the confidence of those who buy with a plan to sell a few years later though.

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Jamie Shakespeare wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:09 pm

Yeah this stinks. Much like the special edition Sauron helm, UC have found a way to work around 'limited editions' to have best of both worlds - advertise the first run as limited (which is meaningless when they are releasing like 5000, there aren't that many collectors out there) and then release things like the 'red eye' version later. They've now realised they don't need to be truthful with collectors, they can bend the 'rules of the game' to increase sales.

BUT

It won't stop me buying new products, as I don't buy for the resale value. Might knock the confidence of those who buy with a plan to sell a few years later though.
Yeah, it's a real shame that no one bats an eyelid at a business engaging in such deceptive practices, but then they're far from alone in this regard. No one should be buying these as an investment, but it really beggars the question as to why this industry bothers to label and release things as "Limited Editions", only to find convenient and sleazy workarounds to keep releasing more of the same item down the road. I guess the strategy for them is the lure to the buyer, who is fooled into thinking they're getting something exclusive, but it's a hollow lie as has been proven before. As long as we basically consider anything that they release as open season to make more whenever, there should be no disappointments down the road, but those numbered COAs and etchings on items with an edition number are completely worthless.
This Space for Rent

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@Valkrist numbered CoA's or Certs in general I see little meaning too anymore. Once I realized how easily they could be recreated. The only thing I've noted from Certs now is more seriously collectors miss out on a good deal waiting for someone to "yes or no" the CoA is included. While they hold out someone who doesn't care, and wouldn't display the CoA, scoops it up and is happy.
When Boromir Swords were $800 and not in the books for reissue I finally stopped caring about a box or CoA. Paid $235 for mine with plaque while the Box and CoA crowd were paying $700/$800. Then just ran off a CoA front and back of my own, that I don't display lol. Made one for my Gimli Helm, just mimicked the numbered bit as best I could via photoshop, just as happy, happier, as the helm ended up being free. Eventually dabbled in custom CoAs for some Weta and NC stuff that people seemed to really like.

As far as reissued items go, as long as it wasn't a Limited Edition I think its fine, but we're had, 2? LE Sauron Mace runs? May be wrong? Idk. Im glad to see some items return. But leave a few unicorns out there lol.

@Jamie agreed and while I do like seeing new items come up, I have come to a mindset that I'm not gonna buy anything and everything (thats just me, more for everyone else.) that UC puts out there. Which has made it quite easy for me to stop collecting as well, there isn't really anything coming that I'd actually want. Besides, there's a few prop makers out there who make stuff UC won't :D

@Nasnandos any chance of UC1397 resurfacing. Its the one I need a double of at this rate. Fingers crossed.
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JJByers wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:12 am Also whats with the new Sauron Mace "Red Eye Edition" on BudK? Just riding the horse into ground Valyrian Steel style or what?
Yeah, I was very surprised when I heard about that. I was asked, so I gave them my thoughts about it. I sort of understand what happened and why they are doing it, but I'm not happy about it. Suffice it to say, it was not something UC really wanted or planned on doing, but I can't really say any more than that. What I can say is, I don't think there will be limited editions any more. I'm sure they will finish out some of the editions that are still open, but I don't think limiting production will be allowed for anything new in that license going forward.
JJByers wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 5:12 am @Nasnandos any chance of UC1397 resurfacing. Its the one I need a double of at this rate. Fingers crossed.
Unfortunately, no. They had intended to do another run this year, but the cost to make it has almost doubled. The tooling, which is very old now, finally broke. It's too costly to remake it for a small run, so I think that replica is officially closed.
KRDS

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@Nasnandos ah. Oh well. Bright side, doing away with LE could stave off the price gouging often seen later down the road with them. Thats always a plus imo.

Shame about 2/3 axes but is what it is. Drew mentioned they had to retool or get new tooling for the reissued wraith sword coming up on Facebook? Are some items cheaper to retool (to a considerable cost amount) or did they just really want to revive that item you think?
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JJByers wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 12:25 am @Nasnandos ah. Oh well. Bright side, doing away with LE could stave off the price gouging often seen later down the road with them. Thats always a plus imo.

Shame about 2/3 axes but is what it is. Drew mentioned they had to retool or get new tooling for the reissued wraith sword coming up on Facebook? Are some items cheaper to retool (to a considerable cost amount) or did they just really want to revive that item you think?
The other axe in the "2/3" is the walking axe right? I was going to ask Kit I thought I remembered him mentioning the tooling on that axe was shot as well but I was hoping I remembered wrongly. Too bad about the Battle axe. I was lucky to find one early on in my collecting but I'd always hoped they'd bring it back for newer collectors.

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Ronin wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 5:43 am The other axe in the "2/3" is the walking axe right? I was going to ask Kit I thought I remembered him mentioning the tooling on that axe was shot as well but I was hoping I remembered wrongly. Too bad about the Battle axe. I was lucky to find one early on in my collecting but I'd always hoped they'd bring it back for newer collectors.
Yes, the Walking axe tool is broken also. Actually, what I heard about the battle axe is that the tooling was "damaged". That usually means cracked and broken, which is not something they can repair. They said the tooling for one of my swords was damaged in the past, but it just turned out to be some rust, so I need to ask what is actually wrong with the Gimli tooling.
KRDS

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