Well, i thought i'd try to get a little more conversation going in this section...lol.
http://www.cashanwei.com/ (is the main site).

There are quite a few new and interesting products coming out from Hanwei this year. Some that caught my interest in terms of cool and differnt as well as added to my future wish list:

1) Wootz Shaolin Sword (http://www.cashanwei.com/product_details.asp?id=SH2385) - interesting to see Hanwei come out with "wootz" or "watered" steel...

2) Iga Ninja-to and Kouga Ninja-to (http://www.cashanwei.com/productsearch. ... at=NinjaTo) - 2 new additions to Hanwei's Ninja-to lineup....nice to see them creating "Ninja" swords with a bit better quality than their standard lineup, which have been some of the best quality Ninja-to's on the market for a while...

3) Hanwei's 25th Anniversary Shinto katana (http://www.cashanwei.com/product_details.asp?id=SH2433) - wow. New special steel, limited edition, and silver plated fittings to mark their Silver Anniversary. I must admit, this one is tempting...

Like i said, there are more new items from Hanwei...but these caught my eye - so much so that i'm really considering buying the Anniversary Shinto when it comes out... What do you guys think??

Personally, I'm glad there are no new folded steel katanas on the horizon,
because conquering that field will be next to impossible for me (14 released
plus 8 more planned). That Shinto 25th anniversary is nice, but once I
complete the Tatsu line, I'm probably gonna puke if I see one more dragon
themed blade.



I truly like Hanwei, but nothing outside those 22 swords is on my shopping
list. (Like that alone is not enough!)

Oh, and I would get some pictures and quick review/description of my new
Fuku Riu, but right now, when it comes to collecting, only Anduril is in my
focus. I'll try to do that in late February.

That jian caught my eye, looks nice.

The one thing that I don't like about hanwei though, is that their swords are so plain, as are most other battle readies

http://www.oriental-weaponry.co.uk/acat ... katana.jpg

http://www.specialistswords.com/images/ ... Katana.jpg

http://www.swordsoftheeast.com/ProductI ... 1204_1.jpg

http://www.swords24.eu/images/products/ ... 91_a_4.jpg

http://www.japanese-samurai-swords.net/ ... -sword.jpg

http://www.japanese-samurai-swords.net/ ... -crane.jpg


etc.


Plain? Go over to SFI and you'll here a lot of people even thinking they're too ornate or gaudy. Their lower-end stuff is generic for a reason. But even those have started to get some character depending on what you check out. Hanwei blades are usually functional to some degree but I've never seen them marketed as "battle ready" by CAS. Sites that want to sell stuff do that. I think it's a silly term. Not to mention how most non-functional blades not modeled after a well-designed movie prop are quite shockingly horrid looking:

http://www.kultofathena.com/images/kai- ... tana_l.jpg

http://www.coldweapon.org/pics/katana-sword.jpg

http://www.hotmovieprops.com/images/sam ... katana.jpg



I'm kinda interested in the new ninja-to. I'm glad they still made some more despite all the negativity towards them and authenticity and all that junk. You know what? They are real. Not historically accurate, no. But they exist now. Someday years from now they will be recognized as historical antiques. People are blind to that for some reason. I say who cares, I love the design.

[quote=""Darlak""]The one thing that I don't like about hanwei though, is that their swords are so plain, as are most other battle readies[/quote]

Can you please - oh, please - elaborate that? Or is this a joke?

Yeah really, most of those swords are quite plain. There are of course some exceptions, lik e some of the oriental swords and stuff.

Really, I wanna see engraved pommels and hilts and stuff like on the marto swords.

Hmm... Then you might be interested in these:

http://kitrae.net/fantasy/swords_of_the_ancients.html

Myeah, some of the Kit Rae swords look look, although some of them is a little over the top, and looks kinda "unreal".

The luciendar is awesome though.

Marto?


I'm wondering what would be ideal to you, in the case of Japanese blades. The ones I linked above are anything but plain. The hamon might be the only thing considered plain. But everything else is quite ornate and pretty heavy on the decorations. Please don't tell me you're e xp ecting some saw-toothed anime "katana sword"

Katanas are one thing sedhal, I'm thinking more of european sword designs. And when I mean marto, I mean the detailed hilts and so on, not necessarily poor fantasy designs.

[quote=""Darlak""]And when I mean marto, I mean the detailed hilts and so on[/quote]

Detailed hilts?

I'm lost.

Well I focused on the katana in the pics I posted, to which you addressed as plain.

Yes their medieval swords are plain, sure. But Marto has a tendency to make their blades look toyish: http://www.pirates-cave.com/marto%20sword%20T539.jpg (that's horrible)

A sword's beauty should be in the overall shape and harmony, not a bunch of gold, engravings, and jewels. That's me, anyway.

Perhaps you're right when iot comes tot he katanas, I never really liked katanas, and so two katanas that may be completely different looks more or less just the same to me.

When it comes to marto swords, some look horrible, others looks awesome. My favourite ones would be the snartemo viking replica, and the barbarian sword. The viking sword is simply perfect, a sword truly fit for a norse king of old. The barbarian has an awesome fantasy design, yet not over the top. Everything from the dragons to the shape of the extremely wide fuller. Also, it has the same kind orante stuff at the top of the blade, only that here, the blade gets wider when it ends.

And I must say, in person, both look completely authentic. One thing I hate about marto though, is that they make all their swords in the same boring brass material. Either than or the steel stuff.

But as you said, some of their swords looks extremely toy-ish, and way over the top.

Barbarian? Hmmm you mean the one that kinda ripped off Conan's Atlantean sword? Did a search but I got a few different results.

I wish they'd release some pocs of the new Tatsu so I know whether or not I need to be saving pennies.

Meh, not a rip-off. The only similarities is the thing I e xp lained above. Also, the barbarian is one handed, not two handed.

You could go to marto's site, there's a good pic of the hilt there.

http://www.pirates-cave.com/easyshopmaker/tn_e36_2.jpg

This one?

It definitely rips off the prongs on the side. That's not historically accurate, so it can't be that they used the same inspirations. The description even refers to Conan

I think there's something to be said though about a designer's ability to make outlandish designs work. Ron Cobb did just this with the Conan swords. They're purely fantasy but they're absolutely stunning. Despite some echoes of his designs embedded in reproductions like this Marto sword (and some Kit Rae blades too), they fail to measure up in a way that isn't so much short of the standard, rather than being completely polarized. It's something that's either one way or another. And the way I see it, swords like that Marto completely fail at it. I think the Conan swords are as outlandish as anyone has gotten with a sword design while still succeeding at believability and aesthetic quality. Its other elements balance out to where everything works (harmony) together. Swords like this Marto and other dime-a-dozen cast fantasy designs don't have that. They seem very thoughtless and cliche...

But if you like them, that's cool. Nothing against that.

And I apologize for going even further off topic.

Yup that one. The prongs on the edges are of course similar to that of the atlantean, and it's obvious that they pulled that idea from the atlantean. However it'¨s only the idea, as they're quite different than the atlantean, and looks loads better too =P

I'd say, that other than being a sword, the prongs are the only similarities to the atlantean.
And by the way, the barbarian sword is quite believable as well, at least that's my opinion.

While googling for pics of the barbarian, I stumbled upon this, gave me a hard on.

http://www.yourprops.com/view_item.php?movie_prop=3022

Now that's awesome, shame it's like 200 bucks +

[quote=""Darlak""]However it'¨s only the idea, as they're quite different than the atlantean, and looks loads better too =P

[/quote]

Didn't know you were joking this whole time Sometimes I have a hard time detecting sarcasm online and I forget to recognize subtle humor. My bad, bro.




Back to Hanwei, then!

Dude it's not sarcasm lol. the prongs are quite similar, but far from a rip-off. The barbarian ones are quite different, and they're engraved. The only similarity is that both has those prongs.

but you're right, it's time to get back on topic.

I'm not saying the prongs are exactly the same, I'm stating that the mere presence of them is a rip off. It is. No other sword before the Atlantean had those. And if one did, I doubt Marto knew about it. Like I said, they even refer to Conan in their description.


That's like saying Avatar's story isn't a rip off of Dances with Wolves and that the ONLY similarity is the whole story in general.

"Gee, no, my prongs are spraypainted gold and engraved, not the same at all!"

It would be like "creating" a laser-sword for some story and then denying that you ripped off the lightsaber because yours has a touchstrip instead of a button.

And it's just as I feared. No sarcasm. Whether you like one more than the other or not, that Marto is nowhere close to the quality in design of the Atlantean. So you're 100% wrong about the Marto being better. But that's why we have personal taste & subjectivity. You like it better, fine! Who is anyone to argue with that? But I feel the need to let you know, arguing which one is better on an objective level, you'll get nowhere saying that silly Marto is better (in any aspect) than the Atlantean.

And that's not even mentioning how sad it is to rip something off and still not measure up 1/1,000th to the source material. This goes back to what I said about the designs that have it or don't, and the very thin line between failure and success. Take Marto's very own Atlantean reproduction for example. The slightest variations to the design had been made through lack of accuracy and it throws the whole thing off. It doesn't look right at all. Compared to Albion's, it looks... well, like a Marto. But you get the idea. So raping the blade, slapping huge dragon wings on the hilt, and plating the thing in metallic gold paint surely won't help. It's like they took what made the Atlantean great and threw out 99 percent of it, leaving that very signature blade-design to screw up beyond recognition. But it's still there in some form. And as you said, it's "just an idea". That's the point. That's what they ripped off. What else do you think people plagiarize all the time? It's all about ideas.



And oh yeah: "Back to Hanwei."

As said earlier, it's not a rip-off. Marto was obviously inspired by the atlantean, and I never argued with that. But they didn't rip it off. Other than the prongs, the design is COMPLETELY different. I have the sword myself, and it's quite unique, one of the most unique swords I have ever seen, in fact.

Secondly, when I said that it looks better than the atlantean, I ment the prongs. The prongs looks better than the atlantean. But if you'd like me to, I'd be happy to say that the barbarian looks better than the atlantean, alot better, in fact. That is of course my opinion, and to assume that I believed that I was speaking for everyone else, is just silly.
I shouldn't have to add "imo" after every opinion I say or write on the net.


just to prove my point, here's an example of a rip-off.

http://www.coltelleriacollini.it/inters ... e/5389.jpg

http://www.kingofswords.com/images/EW-1165BW.jpg

first one is obviously the real one, second is the fake.

Oh, and one more thing, Saying that marto ripped off the atlantean is practically the same as saying that every single sword with a dragon engraving ripped off the first ever sword with a dragon engraving.

Inspiration and thievery is two quite different things.

Darlak...


You like the Marto better. That's established. But it doesn't look better than the Atlantean. No way. No contest. Not even close. The Atlantean is a much better design, not even having anything to do with opinion. Is Saw better than Lawrence of Arabia? No. Can you like Saw better? Yes. But there are qualities we can asses for each design & film that lead us to conclude the values of each. That has little to do with opinion, unless you want to break everything down into subjectivity and never use your brain anymore or have interesting conversations.

The design is completely different, yes... except the prongs, which are (were) exclusive to the Atlantean. They ripped them off. They ripped them off. They ripped them off. There's nothing more to it. I didn't say they ripped the entire design off. If they did, it might look halfway decent. No, they only ripped the prongs off.

By the way, your example was a little poor considering how bad both of them are. And I could easily use your argument there: They didn't rip it off, the only similarities are the hilt, general shape, blade, etc. They were merely inspired. It's just an idea, etc. etc.

And to your last point there: incorrect. Dragons exists in mythology and popular culture outside of the realm of sword design. It's completely 100% different. Any subject matter depicted on a weapon that comes from life or stories or something so common as a dragon is fair game. It's how they are used where it becomes a question. Point to prongs so similar to that of the Atlantean and this Marto elsewhere (before Conan). You can't. It's a very specific design that Ron Cobb developed for a specific iconic blade. It's not depicting any particular subject matter. It's a design. There's a huge difference there. To you a design means dragons and skulls and wings, okay. But those are merely pieces of subject matter which can be incorporated into a design. Hanwei, for example, may be plain because they don't use bat-wings and skulls, but their designs are fairly accurate to history. You might look at The Regent by Albion and deem it "plain" because it doesn't have a blade shaped like flames or huge spikes on the hilt, but the design is very unique, historically accurate to some antiques found, and has everything a good design should have: geometry, shapes, harmony, grace, elegance, and demeanor. This isn't merely accomplished by throwing a dragon onto a hilt. Yes, you can fit a dragon into a larger design, but that's never the design itself (at least, I hope). A more accurate example based on your own would be: it's like taking a very specific, unique, one-of-a-kind dragon already incorporated into a design, and slapping it onto a new hilt surrounded by bat-wings and stuff, then calling it original. Maybe the rest of it is (however bad it looks), but that dragon still belongs to someone else. It's someone else's idea. And it's far from being general enough to where anyone should feel comfortable using it.


Inspiration and thievery are two different things. But apparently Marto was inspired to steal that design.

First off, please stop the arrogant stuff. You sound like a high elf...

Opinions, my friend, must, not should, but must be respected. Hitler thought that killing six million jews was reasonable. His opinion was that jews and various other "races" didn't belong on the earth. Now my opinion, is of course that his opinion was messed up. But it's still an opinion, no one can argue with that.

It's the same stuff on the sword, no matter how horrible you think it looks, my opinion is still that it's awesome.

Now of course, the prongs on the atlantean is of course unique, and marto took that idea, and added it to their sword. but think about it, having handguards on a sword was once too unique, a great many years ago. Does that make the second sword with handguards a rip off?

By the way, here are 3 other swords with somewhat similar prongs on them.

http://www.kitrae.net/fantasy/kr12_cint ... justi.html
http://www.kitrae.net/fantasy/kr20_anat ... aquar.html
http://www.weaponscentral.net/united/He ... 0Sword.jpg

Fine, they may be a little more different, but it's still the same stuff, prongs going down the edges.

And since my last example wasn't good enough for you, here's another one.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.massively.co ... rc-425.jpg
A warhammer orc.

http://www.freakygaming.com/gallery/gam ... _grunt.jpg
Warcraft orc.

[quote=""Darlak""]

Opinions, my friend, must, not should, but must be respected. Hitler thought that killing six million jews was reasonable. His opinion was that jews and various other "races" didn't belong on the earth. Now my opinion, is of course that his opinion was messed up. But it's still an opinion, no one can argue with that.

It's the same stuff on the sword, no matter how horrible you think it looks, my opinion is still that it's awesome. And if you can't respect others' opinions, then you, my friend, is an idiot.

[/quote]

...


Pal. I don't think I need to even address that. You've done all my work for me. Just read your own post a little right now. Notice anything?


To your other points (or what I've previously addressed), even those Kit Rae swords, as much as he's used recycled designs before, don't have any prongs let alone prongs remotely the same as the Atlantean's. And no, crossguards aren't ripping crossguards off. Each crossguard is product of years and years of trial, error, invention, and evolution, not to mention varying from shape to shape. Crossguard is a broad concept, and in a guard you can have multiple designs. These prongs are part of a ricasso design. Please tell me you're starting to get this a little?


And I'm sorry if I come off as being arrogant, but it's reciprocal you know.

The only fault I can see in my quote is the part where I called you an idiot, and I'm sorry for that. But by all means, have your own opinion.

The reason I got a little angry, was because you practically told me I wouldn't have my own opinions.

You like the Marto better. That's established. But it doesn't look better than the Atlantean. No way. No contest. Not even close. The Atlantean is a much better design, not even having anything to do with opinion. Is Saw better than Lawrence of Arabia? No. Can you like Saw better? Yes. But there are qualities we can asses for each design & film that lead us to conclude the values of each. That has little to do with opinion, unless you want to break everything down into subjectivity and never use your brain anymore or have interesting conversations.

Now we're all beings with free will, are we not? Yes, we are. Having our own free will, includes having whatever opinions we want. And just so you guys know, I did in no way try to justify hitler's actions. I was merely stating that he had is own free will, and his own opinion of things, and no one could deny him that.

When I say that I like the marto sword better, that is my opinion. Don't deny me that.


Now back to the prongs. Of course hand guards on swords have been around forever, but there must have been a first, just as the atlantean may have been the first with prongs. But really, prongs can be made quite diverse, and let me tell you now, that the prongs on the marto sword are quite different. And you may be right about the first two swords, but don't say that the heavy metal sword does not have prongs. They're about half the length, and has spikes. It's the same concept, it merely shows that prongs CAN be diverse.

By the way, I'm quite sure the prongs on the atlantean was inspired by the german zweihanders. May be wrong though.

well in my opinion there is only one real atlantean conan sword ,the sword that arnold weald.the ultimatate atlantean sword ever made.

so,dear darlak.
forget about iven start, to argue about this sword.
this is the ultimate sword in the history of conan.
made by albion armor.

i dont think this needs eny further discusions.

^ That's not only am.dk's opinion, it's fact.


I'll let you have your opinion. And I'll let you be wrong in thinking you're right for chalking it up to subjectivity, yet still arguing in an attempt to solidify any basis in fact (contradiction, mi amigo). But let me point it our for you, as you didn't get it while proofreading it, let alone typing it to begin with: Hitler had his opinion. You said your opinion is that it was a poor one. Then you went on to call me an idiot (which I'm not dwelling on) for "not respecting other opinions". Contradict yourself much? Hypocritical much? And for the record, it was Hitler's actions that stretch far beyond his opinion. His opinion, of all people, doesn't even come into play. Exterminating mass amounts of Jews isn't someone's opinion, bro.


This reminds me. I once debated a co-worker about this opinion thing. Like you, they couldn't admit that there are indeed universal qualities since the dawn of time that transcend subjectivity. IE: It's better to stay alive than drown in a puddle of turpentine. And then there are more finite scenarios, such as facts, like: two plus two equals four. I debated this woman about her taste in movies. Irrelevant, but it's an example. She broke everything down into the "it's my opinion" argument, ultimately blinding herself to any analytical or logical thought. It's the easiest thing in the world to say or do. Haven't you ever critiqued a piece of art in a class or anything? "Meh I feel ____ about it". Okay, but why. "Why" is important. Without "why", there's nothing backing up a mere impression. So anyway, the debate continued. I was trying to tell her, as a film major in many analysis classes, there are technical aspects of movies we can point at to determine whether this or that is effective and to what degree, etc. Obviously in a scene attempting to convey sadness and melancholy the main character wouldn't be laughing hysterically. That's not what you want to do, and that's a fact. It can be proven based on an audience's reaction to it. "Did you get that he was sad?" ..."No, he was laughing uncontrollably". There are exceptions to this example based on contexts, but it's just that - an example.
So eventually I did what you did here and brought up Hitler (I'll agree he's a great tool for most debates, but you used him to my advantage - thanks!): True or false, I said, all Jews are bad. She stops, pauses a moment, realizes she's got nothing to say, and responds with "it was his opinion". Answer the question, I said, and I repeated it. She again responds with "it's his opinion". If this isn't spelling anything out to you, I have another example...
Ultimately, after I felt she was sufficiently in question of her own stance, (but too egotistically invested to back down or turn back), I offer my final example: Say someone believes 2+2=5. Someone believes that, yet the answer is NOT five, it's four. And that's a fact. Again, she's stumbling all over herself and eventually says (surprise!) "if it's their opinion".

So wait, ladies and gents of the jury (lol), two plus two equals FIVE if I believe it to be so? Two plus two equals four is no longer a fact?

So here's my challenge to you if you want to believe that. Which, apparently you'd like to (but I think you're faking it). Go through the rest of your life shrugging every single thing you thought you knew off as being open to subjectivity. Water isn't a liquid, that's some scientist's opinion. Fire won't burn you unless it's your opinion - and even then, it might be someone else's that it won't. So yeah. Try that, Darlak. Never argue anything again. In fact, don't even reply to this post if you happened to read it. In doing so, you'll contradict yourself even further. It's a fact you have already. And since you're not sold on facts, try this one: It's also my opinion. Disagree? Well refer to what you already said about those who disagree with others' opinions, buddy.

(think it over before you reply, that's my suggestion to you.)

Have a nice day, Darlak. No hard feelings between us.


(and sorry Jash for the major derailment)

- Keith

[quote=""Darlak""]
Opinions, my friend, must, not should, but must be respected. [/quote]

Not necessarily. "Respected" could be replaced with "tolerated" in many instances.

Here's the bada$$ Conan sword:

http://www.myarmoury.com/review_alb_atlantean.php

Of course, Sedhal, a fact is a fact. And am.dk, the atlantean is the only atlantean, I never argued about that. The discussion was wether or not the barbarian was a rip-off, or if it was inspired. I'm going for the latter. The only way to find out the truth, would be to ask the guy who desgined it, and hope for a honest answer. I'm not going to discuss that any further though, as we're obviously not getting anywhere. =P

But the whole opinion thing didn't start with that, but with wether or not the barbarian was cooler. My OPINION, is that the barbarian looks better than the atlantean. Now, the thing is, you basically told me I couldn't have that opinion. You may think that the atlantean looks better, and that may be a fact for you. But I'm still free to have whatever opinion I choose to.

When it comes to the hitler thing, I may have formulated it wrong, my mother language is Norwegian, not English. Anyways, my point was, that no matter how many disagreed with his opinions, it was still his opinions, and he were free to have them, no matter how wrong others thought they were. I hope that makes more sense. And I sure as hell didn't say it was okay to murder six million jews, so don't even try dude.

*backspace, highlight - delete*

Forget it. You apparently didn't follow my advice or take me up on that challenge. Ignorance is bliss. Enjoy it. Nobody else will.

But I'm going to beat the other dead horse instead. Speak for yourself. I know the truth, yet you're unwilling to accept it. Your beloved Marto, however cool you think it may be, ripped off Ron Cobb's design of the ricasso. Fact. Simple as that. It's obvious to anyone who knows anything about... shapes. As I pointed out, they even refer to Conan in the thing's description! And gee, "Barbarian" sword is apparently a big coincidence.
Does that mean you shouldn't like it? No. There are plenty of other reasons for that. Am I telling you not to have an opinion? No. I'm telling you it's a little misinformed. I never said you can't have an opinion. Talk about putting words in mouths. You failed to understand my objective vs subjective comparison. How can you accuse me of attacking your opinion when you won't even acknowledge the difference between reality and subjectivity? Maybe it's the language barrier. But you seem to speak English pretty well.

Opinions don't make things so. IE: "The Barbarian is cooler" is your opinion, whereas the Atlantean has a much more profound mythology, long-time appeal, more thoughtful designs, better materials, better aesthetic balance, and connotations that would peak the cool charts alone. That's just reality. None of that goes away when you like the Barbarian better. Again, I never said you can't do that. I'm telling you, outside of your opinion, things are really much different. And it goes beyond subjectivity.

"I like blue" is an opinion. "I like red" is an opinion. "This design is better than that design" needs to be backed up. Designs are intentional. They're... designed. They have a purpose, a goal, intent... colors themselves are just colors.

( And dare I even ask why you're bothering to argue with me any further, if you truly believe everything is opinion? Don't you see how contradictory, hypocritical, and pointless that is? I guess not. )

You should just be glad I'm not reducing this to an even playing field, responding with nothing but "well that's my opinion, deal with it".

(Hey, I still ended up writing as much as I deleted. Go figure.)

So getting back to this Hanwei topic, Darlak, what do you think they should start doing in the future to make their swords appeal to more opinions?

Gentlemen,

With all due respect for the opposing viewpoints being argued in this thread, it is my firm belief that this has gone far enough without hope for resolution. Agree to disagree and move on. To forestall any further replies that will keep this pointless exercise going, I am locking this thread. Please discuss the merits of the Hanwei swords in the new thread I created, and don't resume this argument.

showthread.php?t=4757