Hello everyone.
I wanted to post about my e xp erience with Shadow Dale Creations, known on several forums as Lord Ironwulf or General Mayhem, and Shadow Duchess.

I ordered their "Gondorian War Horn" back in late March '07 because I wanted a July '07 delivery. Of course it wasn't a problem to make that date and they sent me a bill. I paid it and allowed the time to pass. When July came I asked them if they were about ready to send it out for me. They said, it shouldn't be much longer!

Well, here were are almost 10 months later, many, many emails and failed delivery dates have passed with no horn and no refund either. Delays are being blamed on illness, email problems, or post office problems.

I'm at the end of my rope and have tried to be patient and as understanding as possible with them but I feel like I've tried everything, so I'm going public with my e xp erience. If I had known that this was how they do their business I would have never ordered this from them. I will give them kudos for above average communications, but sometimes I would have to email 2-3 times before getting a response.

Thanks for reading!

I posted a reply to this some time ago, but it was apparently lost.

Just wanted to also pass along my warning against ordering from Shadow Dale Creations. I had this same e xp erience with them. Ordered a Horn of Gondor and promptly paid $400 for it. Over a year later, I have received nothing, and SDC has stopped communicating with me completely.

This guy is registered with deviantART as "LordIronWulf" and posted to his gallery as recently as May 30 of this year.

His real name is believed to be Steven, but I don't have a last name. No address or telephone number either, but current residence listed as Hudson Valley, NY.

He also has gone by the alias "GeneralMayhem" on various message boards but I haven't seen any recent posts anywhere.

If anyone has information how to get in touch with this guy, I'd love to know. If I could find a real address I'd be very interested in paying him a personal visit.

Same deal...STILL NOTHING!

By some quirk of timing/fate, I received the horn today! I'm at work and haven't been home yet to check it out, but my wife informed me we received a package from SDC and when she opened it there was a horn inside.

I'll give a brief review and try to post some pics as soon as I get a chance. Initial feedback from my wife is that it looks great. 5pm can't get here soon enough!

It has been months since I heard from SDC, and well over a year since I placed this order, so the delivery came as a total shock. Maybe SDC is catching up on their backlog of orders? Crossing fingers that Arwyniel receives her's soon too.

Here's a review of the horn. I don't do reviews very often, so please forgive the clumsiness.

Looks - 4.5 out of 5
The look of the horn is the closest I have seen to the actual movie prop. Definitely no mistaking this is the horn of Gondor. Minor difference in the shape of the fitting on the end of the horn. Movie horn seemed to have some tapper to it (meaning the end was widest and it tappered slightly); whereas the fitting on the end of this replica seems to be the same diameter throughout. Not sure if I'm making sense? Also, the fittings look a little less like real metal in person than in the pictures, but the sculpt work on the fittings is really to be commended. Extermely accurate from what I could tell. The braided leather strap adds a lot to the realistic look too, and this thing really photographs well. Overall I am very pleased with it's appearance.

Quality/Function - 3.5 out of 5
Somewhere along the line I had the impression the fittings and mouthpiece were some sort of cold cast metal. In reality, it all feels like plastic to me. The synthetic horn is thin and there is almost no weight to it at all. Even the mouthpiece feels plastic, when I thought there would be a metal base with sculpting done over it. In spite of this, the horn is functional and will make a nice tone if you really put some air behind it. Because the horn is so lightweight and has a somewhat fragile feel, I will not be taking mine to any ren fairs. The risk of damage just seems too high, and this thing was not cheap! For me it is strictly a display item.

Value - 4 out of 5
I left out of this calculation the extreme frustration in the lengthy delivery delay, and tried to just focus on the item itself. The horn was $400. That is a lot of money, and I think for that reason, a lot of people would value it lower than I have. The reason I rate it so highly in this area is because IMO this is the most accurate replica of the horn of Gondor to be found anywhere. Could it be even more accurate, sure. Could it be made with different materials to enhace quality, probably and the price would go up even more. As everyone knows, collector value is a hard thing to measure (just look at the prices on some things selling on ebay these days). In the end, I had to have the horn of Gondor. If you are a collector and really want to fill this hole in your collection, this is the best horn of Gondor I've seen besides the actual movie prop.

Pics:

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A disclaimer of sorts:
For anyone considering ordering this horn, please take into consideration the difficult e xp eriences of both Arwyniel and myself. Arwyniel ordered before me and still has not received her horn! My order was anticipated to be delivered in 12 weeks and ended up taking approximately 60 weeks. I know SDC e xp erienced some hardships over the last year, and perhaps they are catching up on orders now. Still, if you must have this item, proceed at your own risk.

http://alleycatscratch.com/lotr/Human/B ... 7-horn.jpg

http://alleycatscratch.com/lotr/Human/B ... _SerNM.jpg

very nice piece you have there

I just wanted to update everyone that I received a package from SDC with my horn in it today. Even though I wanted a refund, and seeing the horn will always be a reminder of the ordeal it took to get it, they really do some incredible work. That doesn't excuse them from their terrible business practices, but I just wanted to let everyone know that I finally have something for the money I sent them back in March 2007.

Apparently it seems, well from the 2 members we have here... that this company have seemingly gotten their acts together and got their products shipped out

[quote=""BladeCollector""]Apparently it seems, well from the 2 members we have here... that this company have seemingly gotten their acts together and got their products shipped out[/quote]

Just please take into account what Moonglum said at the end of his review. Be very wary of dealing with them, and if they tell you it takes 12 weeks to make something for you, you might as well prepare yourself for at least 12 months.

You're right waiting 12 months for somehting is quite the ordeal and you are not ordering something of trivial cost. It is one thing if they prepare you from the start and you are willing to wait but to string you along for a YEAR then une xp ectedly the item arrives... thats just bad business.

i didnt mean imm or not,this is a good company gtoo order from or not, it just seems that products are finally being shipped

Well congratulations to you both!
I'm happy to hear this ordeal is finally over for you - and in addition, you now have something to show for it!

I think I would be seriously pissed if I spent $400 for some plastic and had to wait over a year to get it. Talk about emotional distress.

I will be working on my own REAL Horn of Gondor when I've finished my Boromir's Shield and Scabbard, I have the skills to do it but finding a piece of horn like thats been a pain. If anyone has any suggestions of where i can locate a piece of horn with this shape and coloring please let me know.

Also, if anyone has any design info, pics, or dimensions on Boromir's Shield (front and BACK), Boromir's Knife and where I can buy some of his buckles/straps, please let me know.

Thanks
Anthony

[quote=""CaptofGondor""]I think I would be seriously pissed if I spent $400 for some plastic and had to wait over a year to get it. Talk about emotional distress.

I will be working on my own REAL Horn of Gondor when I've finished my Boromir's Shield and Scabbard, I have the skills to do it but finding a piece of horn like thats been a pain. If anyone has any suggestions of where i can locate a piece of horn with this shape and coloring please let me know.

Also, if anyone has any design info, pics, or dimensions on Boromir's Shield (front and BACK), Boromir's Knife and where I can buy some of his buckles/straps, please let me know.

Thanks
Anthony[/quote]
Well Capt. I've never known of any animal to have a horn of those porportions, yes there are horns like it but their size in relation to length are not the same. I've always believed the horn was fabricated strictly as a movie prop.

You can try to PM our member Rick Cottontree for the straps and buckles, he makes some nice LOTR replicas of those kinds of things. He's reliable and fair priced.

[quote=""CaptofGondor""]I
I will be working on my own REAL Horn of Gondor when I've finished my Boromir's Shield and Scabbard, I have the skills to do it but finding a piece of horn like thats been a pain. If anyone has any suggestions of where i can locate a piece of horn with this shape and coloring please let me know.[/quote]

Check this place out. http://store.hornandleather.com/
Good customer service and very friendly.

The website shows only mounted “finished” horns, but I emailed them and asked about getting a single horn of a certain length and color, and they do in fact sell them like that.

You can buy a left side or right side horn, and you can specify length, which is measured in a straight line from the base to the tip.

As for color I just cropped one of the pics of the mounted displays in the color I wanted and emailed that as my color request.
And order it “polished”.

I paid about $ 15 for the horn and $8 shipping.

I am also going to make Boromir’s horn, but I bought one slightly smaller than B’s in the movie.

I'll post a pic of the horn I bought from them so you get an idea of what you're buying.

Here are some pics of my “Potential Horn of Gondor” or embryonic H of G, if you will. It is about 15 inches long.

I recall reading somewhere that prop was closer to 20 inches, and in Tolkien lore, it came from some kind of ox (Fin, Val, Olorin, help me out here).

In any case, in the pic of the mounted [longhorn] horns, they can be as long as 24 inches, except they stay kind of slender, which is why I chose a smaller one: to maintain better proportion of length to diameter.

Mine is polished, and so has a muted sheen to it. I’ve tried to show that base end opening is NOT perfectly round (nature is never symmetrical).

The taped end is where I began to cut it. I bought a silver [French] horn mouthpiece to insert. Since the horn’s embellishments are gold and silver, it should match pretty well.

Even though Shadow Dale was really slow, his detail is great, and accurate too. So that is what I’m going by. And I believe he bought a horn mouthpiece to use also.

A word of warning:l.If you intend to do any cutting on the horn do it outside and wear a dust mask, and it wouldn’t hurt to have a fan blowing any horn dust away from you.

Horn is like bone andyou do not want to inhale fine bone dust. Bad, bad, very bad for the lungs. Danger, Danger, Will Robinson!

[quote=""Deimos""] and in Tolkien lore, it came from some kind of ox (Fin, Val, Olorin, help me out here).[/quote]

That would be the Kine of Araw, or the Oxen of Oromë. Also, Thranduil was right: there is no earth animal with equivalent-sized horns.

http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/k/kineofaraw.html

Texas long horned steer was the only animal close to what I could think of, so Deimos has a close match.
My point was that the length to diameter wouldn't be obtainable in a real horn.
However, if you wanted it to be split in two, I'll bet one of those Texas long horns might make a good try considering the metal end can be made to amplify the diameter and the two separate pieces don't need to be displayed immediately next to one another. That'd be kinda cool.

An African water buffalo horn is black and really knobby, but it does have the correct proportions.

Not surprised that there were multiple Horns of Gondor in the movie, but it appears (to my eyes anyway) that they also had varying sizes (kind of like the different sizes of the Ring)

Look at the horn that Denethor is holding compared to the one Boromir is holding. Denethor's looks smaller...(unless John Noble is a big guy with very big hands.)

[quote=""Deimos""]Not surprised that there were multiple Horns of Gondor in the movie, but it appears (to my eyes anyway) that they also had varying sizes (kind of like the different sizes of the Ring)

Look at the horn that Denethor is holding compared to the one Boromir is holding. Denethor's looks smaller...(unless John Noble is a big guy with very big hands.) [/quote]
I don't know, Noble's hands are positioned differently and you can't see Bean's hand in that comparison (not to mention Bean's holding it further down), I am sure the split version is in fact a different prop though.

It's a good case for what I said about splitting a long horn, two halves appear to be larger.

hey. knok it off,you talk like ,as an real life creature as a produkt.

stay in mind you can get a real ox horn ,thats around half the size of youer own .hight.it all depence of the race .of the oxe.

(still ceab in mind )this comes from a living creatuer.

to the size of the of boromir horn. i might belive its from the highlander race ,dont now i might be wrong

[quote=""Thranduil""]I don't know, Noble's hands are positioned differently and you can't see Bean's hand in that comparison (not to mention Bean's holding it further down), I am sure the split version is in fact a different prop though.

It's a good case for what I said about splitting a long horn, two halves appear to be larger.[/quote]

Oh, absolutely they used different horns.
What I meant about the size thing was sometimes you have to distort the size of something to make it visually more “proportional” in a film or on stage.
Two examples come to mind:

1) You know about the optical illusion wherein a person appears to be heavier, about 10 lbs, in a photo or on TV, than they really are.

2) In Michelangelo’s Pieta, he made the virgin Mary much bigger than Jesus , so she could cradle his body in her lap.
If you could stand up both figures vertically Mary would be noticeably taller than Jesus.
If M. hadn’t done it that way Jesus’ body would have overwhelmed the figure of Mary. It wouldn’t have “looked right”.

So I was thinking that maybe the original size horn, split or not, was too big to look right in Denethor’s lap (...all these laps...), so they made a slightly smaller one.

I’ll have to watch that part again...it was just an impression I got, though pretty strong.

Of course I will keep in mind that the horn(s) come from an actual creature... though I don't believe that any such animal would be killed for their horns alone I believe that the native americans had it right when they sought to use every piece of an animal that gave its life for the cause... better be loved as a H of G than hanging on a wall or rotting.

Also, I've received word from a buddy of mine that told me that many horns with significant length like the one described are measured along the curvature from the furthest two points so it will be significantly shorter from end to end if that makes sense... he also has some horns that he wants me to take a look at from an old family collection that should suit.

[quote=""CaptofGondor""]
Also, I've received word from a buddy of mine that told me that many horns with significant length like the one described are measured along the curvature from the furthest two points so it will be significantly shorter from end to end if that makes sense... [/quote]

The place I referred to in my post, which is the place I bought my horn from... http://store.hornandleather.com ... told me they measure horns in a straight line from tip to base, not along the curve because the sharpness of the curve can vary so much from horn to horn.
And their answer was in response to that specific question from me, to wit: "How do you meaure the horn, along the curve or from tip to base, in a straight line?"

When I requested a horn 16 inches long I got a horn 15.75 inches from base to tip, straight line.
Wherever your friend gets them from, they apparently do it differently. The importnat thing in getting what you want is to make sure both parties understand how the measurement is made.

As Thranduil can attest to, "Measure twice and cut once."

[quote=""Deimos""]Oh, absolutely they used different horns.
What I meant about the size thing was sometimes you have to distort the size of something to make it visually more “proportional” in a film or on stage.
Two examples come to mind:

1) You know about the optical illusion wherein a person appears to be heavier, about 10 lbs, in a photo or on TV, than they really are.

2) In Michelangelo’s Pieta, he made the virgin Mary much bigger than Jesus , so she could cradle his body in her lap.
If you could stand up both figures vertically Mary would be noticeably taller than Jesus.
If M. hadn’t done it that way Jesus’ body would have overwhelmed the figure of Mary. It wouldn’t have “looked right”.

So I was thinking that maybe the original size horn, split or not, was too big to look right in Denethor’s lap (...all these laps...), so they made a slightly smaller one.

I’ll have to watch that part again...it was just an impression I got, though pretty strong. [/quote]
Well your absolutely right about all you said. Michaelangelo did the same with his David, his hands and head are out of proportion as well. He did that because David was originally intended to top off a new cathedral some outrageous distance up.

A lot of the LOTR films took advantage of those illusions of distance etc.

Can you give us the dimensions of that long horn you got?

[quote=""am.dk""]hey. knok it off,you talk like ,as an real life creature as a produkt.

stay in mind you can get a real ox horn ,thats around half the size of youer own .hight.it all depence of the race .of the oxe.

(still ceab in mind )this comes from a living creatuer.

to the size of the of boromir horn. i might belive its from the highlander race ,dont now i might be wrong [/quote]
Did you not say you are a butcher am. ?
Aren't those creatures products to you?

[quote=""Thranduil""]...Can you give us the dimensions of that long horn you got?[/quote]

Gladly


(You may have to go back to the pics I posted )

Position the horn as upturned, like a smile

Tip to the opening/base top of the smile is 15 inches

Tip to opening bottom side of smile is 18 inches.

And btw (note to CaptofGondor) that is why you can’t really measure along the curve. Which part of the curve would you use, top or bottom?

And horns turn left or right, some sharply and some gently. How do you take that into account when you specify a length, since every horn is different?

So “length” is defined as a straight line measurement from the tip to the center of the opening.

And like I said, mine measures 15.75 inches tip to opening center.

Opening circumference is a bit more than 10 inches.

I am spec’ing the circumf. and not diameter because the opening is definitely oval, and not even a symmetrical oval.
(Keeping in mind what am.dk said about these being from living creatures ....lovely variations in nature)

About halfway down (or up) the horn the circumf. is 8.25 inches

Steer horns do not get proportionally larger in diameter the longer they get.
I thought about 14-18 inches would be the right size, not too short at 14, and at 18 still maintain the right proportional look.
But I would still err on the side of shorter rather than longer.

When I hold it as if to blow it, curving upward, it curves slightly leftward.
I don’t know if that is a left horn or right horn on the steer.

But I’m sure if anyone orders one, if you tell the folks (at that store I posted a link to) that you want to use it as a horn the curves up and left (or right, whatever) they will send you what you ask for.

I also asked for noticeable color variation with black, tan/brown and grey/white.
And I cropped a pic from their website of mounted horns and included it in my email: “This is the color I would like if possible.”

Again, keep in mind that Mother Nature does not accept custom orders for something like this.

But they replied they had exactly what I was looking for. And they were right.
Price was right too. Total cost was less than $25.

Thanks Deimos
At $25 that's worth getting one.
The horn of Gondor would definitely go well to complete Boromir's section in my display.

[quote=""Thranduil""]Thanks Deimos
At $25 that's worth getting one.
The horn of Gondor would definitely go well to complete Boromir's section in my display.[/quote]

They don't list individual unmounted horns on their website.
When I emailed them to ask about availability they sent back a list of horn length and prices; longer = more $$$.

I found my receipt (finally)... the horm was $12 and shipping was $12 ...not quite what I said earlier, but I knew the total was < $25.

That was early this year, and prices may have changed.
But with the recession still on, most businesses know better than to raise their prices.

[HTMLDid you not say you are a butcher am. ?
Aren't those creatures products to you? ][/HTML]

yes i am than.but ,it depense on how you ,se a live cretuer as a prudukt,ore not.
i now that many ,might desagry.on my stats in mind here.(and say no we are vekatable).
but i do belive that ,human race is by nature,collecters ,and hunters.

personerly my opininon,(as a buthcer).i am in this belive ,that.what you might call a simple produkt.(industy mc sheit ore something)is not as simple as that .
the deal ,is to ceab the animal in,its own natur invoiament .(and not in a case).

listining to the old indians ,there holl food suply ,and way of living depent,on buffalos.no buffaloes no indians,(get it).

hope you understand my point ,here .
good quality comes,from good invoiament,that provide so much,and good .horns .

[quote=""am.dk""][HTMLDid you not say you are a butcher am. ?
Aren't those creatures products to you? ][/HTML]

yes i am than.but ,it depense on how you ,se a live cretuer as a prudukt,ore not.
i now that many ,might desagry.on my stats in mind here.(and say no we are vekatable).
but i do belive that ,human race is by nature,collecters ,and hunters.

personerly my opininon,(as a buthcer).i am in this belive ,that.what you might call a simple produkt.(industy mc sheit ore something)is not as simple as that .
the deal ,is to ceab the animal in,its own natur invoiament .(and not in a case).

listining to the old indians ,there holl food suply ,and way of living depent,on buffalos.no buffaloes no indians,(get it).

hope you understand my point ,here .
good quality comes,from good invoiament,that provide so much,and good .horns . [/quote]
I hear you am. it is respect for the creature as is, and I love and appreciate all creatures.

Killing for the sake of killing is not right.

glade to se you ,sovled out my spelling puzzle.thranduil.

Killing for the sake of killing is not right.

killing for an item is not right,kill an elafanth for its thuth,killinig a tiger for its skin,damn its realy puch to my anger towards.

to let down a creatuer go ,is supose to be an a suvival isue,that means .if you want a gondor horn ,the hol creatuer whits is come from,is abel to suply food enuf to ,your family.for weeks.

evrything need to have a purpos,dont you thing ?

[quote=""am.dk""] glade to se you ,sovled out my spelling puzzle.thranduil.[/quote]
I simply put myself in your shoes am.
If I tried to communicate in your language (or any other) I'm sure it would be completely impossible to understand.
My hat is off to you for your efforts as well as how you do in fact make it possible for us to understand.

[quote=""am.dk""].if you want a gondor horn ,the hol creatuer whits is come from,is abel to suply food enuf to ,your family.for weeks.

evrything need to have a purpos,dont you thing ? [/quote]

am, Longhorn steers are raised for their meat, not their horns. The horns are a bonus, especially for all of us Gondorian fanatics.

From what I have read longhorn beef is pretty good...cattle are grass-fed, which makes the meat leaner than if they were grain-fed, and the cattle are free-range.

For the vegan / PETA types out there, well, for us carnivores PETA = People Enjoying Tasty Animals.

[quote=""Deimos""] PETA = People Enjoying Tasty Animals.[/quote]
Slaughter another lamb! I'm hungry!

seems like a longhorn is a good raised and quality ox over there,in us.
i do apresiated that ceind of ,raising animals.(the horns are not a bonus,its an uputunity ,for your further survival).


but .daimos??you say only from whot you read,and not whot you buy.and eat

is the longhorn a pure race ore is it just a smarted together,(bastad ox).made by human ,to get easy financiel profit out of it.

[QUOTESlaughter another lamb! I'm hungry!
4 Days Ago 10:44 PM
][/QUOTE]by than.

i hope when you slaughter the little lamb,is not only from hunger but also,you ned to get varm from,the wool,bones for a handel for a new knife,harded skin,to wrab around the handle of your sword,armor ore sheild,(and maby eat the brain to get more smarter )

[quote=""am.dk""]

but .daimos??you say only from whot you read,and not whot you buy.and eat [/quote]

am, I eat beef from several breeds of cattle, but not the longhorn breed.

Check these sites out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Longhorn_(cattle)

http://www.purebred-cattle.com/breeds.html

Breeding animals for a specifc purpose is nothing new...even the ancients were doing it.

It has been done with dogs, horses, cattle, sheep, hogs, bees, not to mention just about any edible plant.

[quote=""Deimos""]am, I eat beef from several breeds of cattle, but not the longhorn breed.

Check these sites out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Longhorn_(cattle)

http://www.purebred-cattle.com/breeds.html

Breeding animals for a specifc purpose is nothing new...even the ancients were doing it.

It has been done with dogs, horses, cattle, sheep, hogs, bees, not to mention just about any edible plant.[/quote]
Well that second link was informative. I noticed at the end it had additional info for BULL, I think political links should include that too