Legolas knives rework

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Following in the footsteps of Thranduil's "LOTR Collection Modifications " thread, I have decided to start playing with the Legolas knives. Decided to start a new thread rather than clutter up Thranduil's thread.

Recently purchased the Legolas knives and was a bit annoyed at the painted on gold "inlay" in the hilt. Want to try to inlay metal into the hilt to replace the paint.
there are also issues with the scabbards, the wood to metal fitand the gold paint in the blade etched areas.

Below are photos of stage 1: stripping the paint off of the hilt. Paint stripper and acetone did not affect the gold plated bolster and pommel. After stripping, the original oak hilt material shows. The oak appears to be "stabilized", so does not appear to to have any porosity at all.

Next step will be taking the knife apart and heading to the hardware store to look at white stains and wood bleaches to whiten up the oak. Also have some pearl paint additive that may get rubbed into to the scabbard leather.

Tim

Stock hilt
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First strip showing the white residue that is under the paint
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Scrubbing with acetone removed the white residue
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Last edited by timdp on Sun Dec 26, 2010 11:07 am, edited 3 times in total.

Re: Legolas knives rework

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[quote=""timdp""]...Next step will be taking the knife apart and heading to the hardware store to look at white stains and wood bleaches to whiten up the oak. Also have some pearl paint additive that may get rubbed into to the scabbard leather.

Scrubbing with acetone removed the white residue
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[/quote]

Tim, that cleaned up version of the handle looks really fine as it is. So you are planning to make it even whiter?
Since these are oak (or are supposed to be) which isn't real white, well, I thought they looked pretty good (and descriptively correct) already. Just my opinion.

The thing I'm really anxious to see is what you do with the scabbards. I have been unhappy with the brown leather from the beginning.
I even bought an extra set with the idea of [somehow] modifying them to get the white leather look.
Now it looks like I might just let someone else come up with a way and then try it on my spare set. :D

"Eternity is an awful long time, especially towards the end."

"What you see and what you hear depends a great deal on where you are standing.
It also depends on what sort of person you are.” -- CSL

Re: Legolas knives rework

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[quote=""Deimos""]Tim, that cleaned up version of the handle looks really fine as it is. So you are planning to make it even whiter?
Since these are oak (or are supposed to be) which isn't real white, well, I thought they looked pretty good (and descriptively correct) already. Just my opinion.

The thing I'm really anxious to see is what you do with the scabbards. I have been unhappy with the brown leather from the beginning.
I even bought an extra set with the idea of [somehow] modifying them to get the white leather look.
Now it looks like I might just let someone else come up with a way and then try it on my spare set. :D [/quote]

I like the photos that show an ivory colored handle and would like to duplicate that color in the oak. The raw oak does not look bad but any kind of finish that gets put on the wood will darken it up, so the plan is to go lighter then add the finish to get it back to the ivory.

Scabbard: The metal parts are just glued to the scabbard, so if you wiggle them vigorously for a bit they will come off. Photos coming...

There are so many issues with the scabbard: plastic body, brown leather and the metal. My problem with the metal is that it seems to me to grossly oversized, not nearly delicate enough for elven work. I think they need to be thinned down.

Can anyone confirm that these are original props? http://www.alleycatscratch.com/lotr/Elf ... d_orig.jpg

Would really like to see the backs of these...


If these are indeed original props, then the UC scabbards are wrong. The upper knife/scabbard combo shows that the upper scabbard metalwork is notched to clear the blade, where the UC model is not.

The grip shape is also very different, as is the pommel. I suspect that those scabbards are also narrower than the UC models.

Tim
Last edited by timdp on Sun Dec 26, 2010 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Legolas knives rework

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OK, lets get down and dirty: Disassembling the knife.

Well its just held in with epoxy so some heat on the blade should take care of it right? Started with the one knife that had a very slightly loose blade. Removed all of the gold paint in the blade recesses with acetone and a toothbrush. Did not want the paint to burn when I heated the blade.
Put the blade in a vice, held flat with aluminum vice jaws and started heated with a propane torch.

Heat it for a while and take it out and wiggle the blade to see if its loose. Do it few more times then decide to work from the pommel end. Heated the pommel a bit and eventually was able to pry out the pommel. Yay!

Heat up the blade some more and put a rubber hammer against the point on the bolster/guard and then hammer on the rubber hammer with a regular hammer. Hey, it move a little bit!

Ok, lets add more heat and more hammer. Yay its moving more!

One more time and off comes the grip and guard! It is now disassembled.
Not shown is the metal collar that has been inserted deep in the grip and serves to locate the end of the tang. It ain't coming out...
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Pretty colors...Blade will probably have to be normalized and retempered.

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One problem, some of the plating on the guard bubbled, so I'm not sure I can recommend that people do this unless they are planning on replace the pommel and guard.

Resanded the grip and then fit the pommel and guard for a much better fit to the wood (photos to come)

Tim
Last edited by timdp on Sun Dec 26, 2010 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Legolas knives rework

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Thanks for clarifying and adding the rear photo Jamanticus!

Tim



[quote=""Jamanticus""]Yes, those are original props in that picture in that earlier post- the picture was taken at an exhibition in Casa Loma.

For a pic of the other side of the scabbards...

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(looks darker than it is)[/quote]

Re: Legolas knives rework

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So, after poking and prying at the Legolas scabbard for a while, I have decided that the plastic scabbard is hopeless...

After a quick study on scabbard making online its off to Home Depot for 2 pieces of poplar wood 3" wide and 1/4" thick. Poplar was the recommended wood for making scabbards. The wood comes in a rollaround display that has 1/4" red oak, alder and poplar in various widths and lengths.

Also picked up the 35% hydrogen peroxide and 100% lye (sodium hydroxide) drain cleaner for bleaching the grips. Am also bidding on a big piece of goat leather to cover the scabbards...

Scabbard progress; working on the first side to get the fit and draw correct. Started the cutout with a 1" belt sander and have continued it with wood chisels.

Marked out scabbard
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blade cutout 3/4 done:
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Blade in the half scabbard
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tim

Re: Legolas knives rework

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Is that tang welded on or part of the original blade?
"and I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with skill, ability and knowledge in all kinds of crafts- to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver and bronze, to cut stones, to work in wood, and engage in all kinds of craftsmanship"

Re: Legolas knives rework

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[quote=""Thranduil""]Is that tang welded on or part of the original blade?[/quote]


Definitely part of the blade - not welded. The unfinished edges of the tang look like they have been cut on a metal shear with custom made shear blades, so it would appear that the whole blade is stamped/punched out at the same time. Blade and tang thickness is 3/16" throughout.

Tim

Re: Legolas knives rework

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Tim, can you post a pic of that stripped down plastic scabbard?
And why are they hopeless? Can't they be re-covered?

You mentioned using wood chisels...I guess you don't have router or you'd be using it already ...no way to borrow or rent one? Making the cutout would go a lot faster. Just a suggestion.

"Eternity is an awful long time, especially towards the end."

"What you see and what you hear depends a great deal on where you are standing.
It also depends on what sort of person you are.” -- CSL

Re: Legolas knives rework

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[quote=""Deimos""]Tim, can you post a pic of that stripped down plastic scabbard?
And why are they hopeless? Can't they be re-covered?

You mentioned using wood chisels...I guess you don't have router or you'd be using it already ...no way to borrow or rent one? Making the cutout would go a lot faster. Just a suggestion.[/quote]


Have only stripped it as far as the photo above. Leather seems like it should come off, but it seems to be glued in a number of places and I did not want to spend more time messing with it. They could be probably recovered, but the combination of cheesy leather (does not need BOTH of the sewn side seams) and cheesy plastic scabbard put me off to the point that I decided I wanted a real scabbard.

Not happy with the finish on the metal pieces either. Originals appear to have a fully polished finish as opposed to the plating over sandblast finish on the UC pieces. If not fully polished, then perhaps they could have a combination of polished and sandblasted finished. Will probably start with a burnisher to put a polish on the high points of the curves to see what that looks like, then perhaps some antiquing (darkening) in the recesses.

Re tools: Don't have a router (work mostly in metal). Though I was going to be able to cut most the recess with the 1" belt sander, but the wood fouled on the wheel support arms at the angles I needed to sand. Did some of it on the sander. Have not used wood chisels in a long time so was having fun. :) Will dig out the rotary files and drum sanding disks for the other piece.

Tim

Re: Legolas knives rework

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Had to go retrieve my scabbards from "storage" [the closet] to look at them. You said you are using 1/4" thick poplar for each side.

So without any leather covering at all the wood scabbard is already 1/2" thick ( I are good at math!). The originals WITH the leather is less than 1/2" thick.

What's your plan to get the gold trim, top and bottom, to fit over the 1/2"+ finished scabbard?

"Eternity is an awful long time, especially towards the end."

"What you see and what you hear depends a great deal on where you are standing.
It also depends on what sort of person you are.” -- CSL

Re: Legolas knives rework

16
[quote=""Deimos""]Had to go retrieve my scabbards from "storage" [the closet] to look at them. You said you are using 1/4" thick poplar for each side.

So without any leather covering at all the wood scabbard is already 1/2" thick ( I are good at math!). The originals WITH the leather is less than 1/2" thick.

What's your plan to get the gold trim, top and bottom, to fit over the 1/2"+ finished scabbard?[/quote]

Scabbard gets sanded down a lot after it is glued together. The fat end of the upper metal piece (do not know the official name of this piece) is .450" inside and the narrow edge is .375". The blade is 3/16" thick and should fit snugly in the scabbard (pretty much zero clearance). The side of the scabbard does not need to be much over .065" (1/16") thick over the thickest part of the blade. There is plenty of strength at the glued edges and the thicker parts of the sides (over the tapered part of the blade).

So 3/16" plus 2 x 3/32" = 3/8" (4.7mm plus 2 x 2.4mm = 9.5mm) leaving plenty of room for the leather. Am also considering sanding down the insides of the metal pieces which will make them narrower/more delicate from the outside.

Tim
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