Horn Lamellar question

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I don't know if it fits into this catagory, because I want to know about non-costume armor.

I have found on many sites that Lamellar armours would not only be made of hardened leather and lightweight metals, but of bone or horn. I want to know how durable goathorn lamellar armor would be, in addition to Black Locust-wood Lamellae. Would these materials prove to be effective in actual combat(or would this question be better handled by a more SCA-oriented forum)?

Re: Horn Lamellar question

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Well, considering the fact that it was used in battle for many hundred years, I think it should do well enough if properly crafted. I believe you'd be better with a chainmail shirt though.

Who or what are you gonna fight anyway? Sounds fun =P
"I had the blues, 'cause I had no shoes, until upon the street, I saw a man who had no feet"

The biggest problem about a zombie-apocalypse would be to hide my excitement about it

Re: Horn Lamellar question

3
Well, my main question isn't horn in general, it's about the durability of goat horn specifically; and due to how e xp ensive they seem to be per horn, how many lamellae per horn, ect, I'd also like to inquire about wood like Black Locust(the strongest I seem to be able to find). How thick is each plate, typically?

I want to make Lamellar instead of chainmail because I personally have a dislike for butted-mail, and lack the means to make it rivited or welded shut. My girlfriend(who I'm actualy making this particular peice for) also prefers the scale-look because of Nausicaa's Princess Kushana. She's also a Capricorn, if that helps to e xp lain the Goat Horn.

As for 'who or what' I'm fighting, that's a tough question... It's really up to what me and my buddies cook up for now(don't worry, it's nothing that'll result in newspaper headlines and hospital trips xD). Sort of a LARP D&D sort of thing, mixed with a touch of realistic combat and survival training for those who feel the robot/zombie apocolyspe is well on it's way xD
Last edited by Sensei Bobbilytus on Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Horn Lamellar question

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Hmm, well, my above post was only a logical guess, so I can't say anything for sure really. But I believe it will be more than strong enough for LARP, even if you're actually going to do a little hitting. I'm guessing your swords are false edged?

Oh, and if you're gonna wave swords wildly about, make sure that every one of them has a full tang, else a guy might end up with a swordblade sticking out of his eye =P
"I had the blues, 'cause I had no shoes, until upon the street, I saw a man who had no feet"

The biggest problem about a zombie-apocalypse would be to hide my excitement about it

Re: Horn Lamellar question

5
Haha, I don't think swords with steel blades, false-edged or not, would be used in any kind of LARPing, unless choreographed and well-rehearsed re-enactments count. Heck, going around and hitting each other with baseball bats is safer than with blunt swords.

LARP usually uses weapons made of semi-rigid cores covered in layers of foam latex- they look pretty good, are light, but won't dismember someone or give them severe blunt trauma.

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Losto Caradhras, sedho, hodo, nuitho i 'ruith!

Re: Horn Lamellar question

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Oh, so basically it's the exact same as what me and my friends did when I was 8, only it's got a fancier name? =p
"I had the blues, 'cause I had no shoes, until upon the street, I saw a man who had no feet"

The biggest problem about a zombie-apocalypse would be to hide my excitement about it

Re: Horn Lamellar question

7
[quote=""Sensei Bobbilytus""]I don't know if it fits into this catagory, because I want to know about non-costume armor.

I have found on many sites that Lamellar armours would not only be made of hardened leather and lightweight metals, but of bone or horn. I want to know how durable goathorn lamellar armor would be, in addition to Black Locust-wood Lamellae. Would these materials prove to be effective in actual combat(or would this question be better handled by a more SCA-oriented forum)?[/quote]
I'm only adding a "bone vs. wood" comment.

Generally speaking; when bone breaks it does so completely, whereas wood has fibers that tend to hold it together even after it breaks. Locust is high on the density and strength, plus it bends well when steamed, that indicates it's highly fibrous. Given a choice I'd make my armor with the locust wood layered over leather.

A small sample of each made for testing would probably make up your mind after whacking it with a sword blade (blunt or not). Remember that flesh is like a cushion behind the armor. My guess would be that the bone is sure to break, but the wood will survive far more blows.
"and I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with skill, ability and knowledge in all kinds of crafts- to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver and bronze, to cut stones, to work in wood, and engage in all kinds of craftsmanship"

Re: Horn Lamellar question

8
[quote=""Darlak""]Hmm, well, my above post was only a logical guess, so I can't say anything for sure really. But I believe it will be more than strong enough for LARP, even if you're actually going to do a little hitting. I'm guessing your swords are false edged?

Oh, and if you're gonna wave swords wildly about, make sure that every one of them has a full tang, else a guy might end up with a swordblade sticking out of his eye =P[/quote]

I'm well aware of this; I have a very detailed method of making "cheap and effective war swords" out of old car leaf-springs; they make sure to tell you very specifically to never apply heat to the tang, make sure it's full, and many many other comments regarding the importance. They also mention the proper way to stone-sharpen the edge, and I'm much too lazy to do something like that unless necessary. Not that I've made any such things yet, but I am fully aware of safety issues; I believe weapons are tools of death, not toys and play-things.

[quote=""Thranduil""]I'm only adding a "bone vs. wood" comment.

Generally speaking; when bone breaks it does so completely, whereas wood has fibers that tend to hold it together even after it breaks. Locust is high on the density and strength, plus it bends well when steamed, that indicates it's highly fibrous. Given a choice I'd make my armor with the locust wood layered over leather.

A small sample of each made for testing would probably make up your mind after whacking it with a sword blade (blunt or not). Remember that flesh is like a cushion behind the armor. My guess would be that the bone is sure to break, but the wood will survive far more blows.[/quote]

Great commentary, very helpful. As for flesh and bone issues, I have a recipe on how to make Ballistics Gel out of knox gelatin, to test things like puncturing and impact on human skin. Use a stick to simulate bone, and you can be pretty sure of if a break would occur or not(since a stick would likely be weaker than bone, if the stick doesn't break, you're likely to be fine).
My only issue is, most historical ancient armor accounts very specifically mention the use of horn as material, while the only use of wood I've found is in Tlingit armor. If it would be better, why wouldn't it, historically speaking, have seen more use? I guess I'll just have to run tests of my own and see what happens.
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