Ultimate Collectors' Forums

Go to local hardware or even grocery store and get some Zud cleanser. It's for rust removal and works great.
The other efforts you are making may cause more problems, vinegar is a corrosive.

Do you guys have CLR down under? It stands for Calcium, Lime, and Rust remover.

I've never used the stuff personally but I just looked it up on line in the instance of removing rust from bathroom fixtures, which are metal.

It cautions to wear gloves and to have some ventilation when using the product. The mix is one cup of CLR to one cup of water, then apply directly to the affected area. Next, use a soft-bristle brush or a sponge to work the CLR into the rusted area. Wait two minutes, then wash off the mixture with water. If any spot of rust remain, repeat.

Some cautions here: obviously that last wash with water is going to bring moisture to the helm, and that is what causes rust in the first place. Clearly, the helm is not the same as a faucet, which is designed to get wet. My advice would be to thoroughly dry the helm after, then apply a coat of WD40 to protect the helm with oil. CLR also has a warning to not use on brass or copper, so keep it well away from the brass band that encircles the helm above the cheekguards and other areas.

Rust is just the corroded iron, so it is very hard to remove. It is not something on the surface, but is what the surface has become when it oxidized, so it must be ground or polished off to get at the unrusted metal underneath. Every rust remover I have seen is just something with an abrasive to help polish the rust off. Deep places are going to be the most difficult to polish out.

When you do get it cleaned up, be sure to regularly coat the whole thing in oil. Or clean the whole surface with a degreaser, wash it with water, and then coat it in car wax or steel wax to prevent oxidization.

Ouch. That's a tough fix, I had to use compressed air just to get the packing peanut residue out from behind the wings. Getting rust out of there would be a nightmare! I seem to recall people using Rennaissance Wax to prevent rusting on swords, does anyone know if it would be effective in preventing rust on the helm?

Renaissance wax is great for protecting carbon steel from oxidization, but any automotive wax works too. Just be sure an remove all of the oil and fingerprints already on it first with denatured alcohol.

[quote=""Elysium""]I've purchased some Metal Glo from UC to hopefully protect and shine it up a little.[/quote]
If UC is still using the old Metal Glo formula, that is great stuff. Practically any soft oxidation on the surface will come off, but it also removes just about anything else on the steel surface, including the dark antique paint wash on some of the metal and brass parts we added to those helms. I suppose that is coming off anyway with the rust removal. Metal Glo is also a micro polish that really brightens up and refines any steel surface.

Kit, the helms are iron or steel?

[quote=""Elysium""]Hey Fingolfin and Kit,

The wings' silver sheen that was on the 'brand new' helm is completely depleted. I am led to believe United Cutlery created this effect with paint, but I could be direly wrong.
[/quote]
I think that just polished steel. We may have nickel plated it. I can't recall now, but it's not paint. If you have dulled the polished surface, I assume one of the treatments you have done has chemically dulled the surface. If it was plated, you probably oxidized it. The only paint used is the dull black paint wash used for the antique staining.

[quote=""Valkrist""]Kit, the helms are iron or steel?[/quote]
Carbon steel, which is mostly iron. Brass is used for some of the decorative bands and crests.

I think we should just be happy that you've made it from before to after...sounds like before was a real mess! Have you had any success taking the wings off yet?

Oh no problem, we like details. The other thing you could try using to get in the crevice behind the wings is cue tips. You couldn't bathe it in vinegar, but you could dip them in whatever solutions you were using and try getting in there to the hard to reach places.

Are you absolutely sure you can't buy some Zud Cleanser over the internet?
It would be well worth your time & wait. It doesn't cost much, shipping would be more than the product, but well worth it.
After seeing the photos, you could clean up whats remaining with some tooth brushes and this cleanser, including the interior.

Overall you've done a great job
It looks good, has that nice aged look

[quote=""Elysium""]Alright, I thought I'd get a few pictures of the rivets, rust and results thus far.

http://imgur.com/a/Rw1xK#0

Is the link to a gallery of 8 pictures. Mainly showing the hard to reach rust and also the rivets which I am still apprehensive on taking off/how to take off/safely take off/replace etc. (so any advice is welcomed!)[/quote]

Looks pretty good. The crests are actually more screen accurate not being polished, so I suggest keeping it like you have it. if you want to restore the antique finish, and make it more screen-accurate, look at how dirty and grimy the original prop was decorated.

[quote=""Nasnandos""]Looks pretty good. The crests are actually more screen accurate not being polished, so I suggest keeping it like you have it. if you want to restore the antique finish, and make it more screen-accurate, look at how dirty and grimy the original prop was decorated.
[/quote]
And there you have it.
Looks great without the polish.
Now you just need to downgrade it to make it perfect

I have to say that this thread has made me feel really good about the quality of my helms.

[quote=""Elysium""]Thanks for the replies guys and thanks for those pictures Kit, they're amazingly insightful. It's somewhat hard to get clear pictures of the helm.

They really did make it look grimy and battle worn.

I think I won't polish the wings. That was the one and only part that I was somewhat disagreeing with the design, that they had these strangely contrasting pristine polished wings on the helm which was battle damaged and antiqued. I was more hoping to just buff the metal some more so it doesn't look so frosted.[/quote]
I don't even remember the whole story with that, but it was a constant back and forth with the factory trying to get it as screen accurate as possible. As I recall, the first sample was entirely polished, and it took several prototypes trying to get it to match the prop better, dealing with people who were not as concerned as me about screen accuracy. I wish we had another month to work on it with the factory, and a few more dollars to work with to line the interior in red leather like the prop, but overall I thought it came out great. It's my favorite helm from the trilogy.

[quote=""Elysium""]I am still concerned with the rust behind the wings and in the crevices. I will spend a bit more time tomorrow cleaning the inside tomorrow so I can begin gluing the leather back in. Thankfully the old glue marks on the leather remain to guide me.[/quote]

With carbon steel, once rust has started, it will continue to oxidize in the air, although very slowly in an air conditioned environment. Still, it's a good idea to remove as much as possible. The previous owner must have kept that stored in a garage or someplace open to outdoor humidity. It only takes a few month of that for the damage to occur.

[quote=""Elysium""]Hey Kit,

I completely agree with the favorite helm from the trilogy. Elendil's helm always captured me, it's a beautiful piece which is why I'm so stalwart in fixing the rust.

I think you did an amazing job on it.

As for the storage; yes the previous owner had kept it in a garage for several years, in Australia, which is hot and humid in garage spaces.

I'll finish cleaning the inside, cleaning the wings and purchase a glass cabinet/case (for my Gondorian Helm and the mini pieces.) which may help slow the rust while I continue to protect it with WD-40 and wax.

Thanks again Kit, I much appreciate it[/quote]
The cabinet will help a lot. You may want to consider stashing some of those silica gel packs (that come with our swords and stuff) into the inside of the helm when you get it in the cabinet.

[quote=""Thranduil""]Are you absolutely sure you can't buy some Zud Cleanser over the internet?
It would be well worth your time & wait. It doesn't cost much, shipping would be more than the product, but well worth it.
After seeing the photos, you could clean up whats remaining with some tooth brushes and this cleanser, including the interior.

Overall you've done a great job
It looks good, has that nice aged look [/quote]

Hey Thrandy, is ZUD anything like Naval jelly?
Naval jelly contains phosphoric acid, really powerful stuff that you only want to use with gloves and in a well ventilated area...like outside.

It's very thick (viscous) and will stay where you put it until you rinse it off.

And it really does work well. It's the go-to stuff for rust removal for the maritime set.

Wow, your helm looks so...clean! A different look then the battle-damaged original form, but I like it. I didn't really like this one as much as Isildur's and the Elven Helm at first, but when you look at this one from the right angle, there's no doubt it's one of the best pieces of armor from the trilogy.