Strange markings on Shards of Narsil

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Hello all- I have just moved into a new home and as such I have been taking a lot of my collectibles out of storage. Some of these items have been in storage for quite some time. One of these is my UC Shards of Narsil. When I took it out there were some strange markings on the blade- I really don't know what caused it or how to clean it off safely. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated!
Last edited by jnicktem on Sat May 17, 2014 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Strange markings on Shards of Narsil

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[quote=""jnicktem""]Yes I did have them in plastic. Best I can think of for it to make that pattern is that while in storage it got humid out- and then during the winter the moisture froze with the plastic.[/quote]

That does sound like something that could've happened. Like N2 said, some Metal-Glo should fix that up nice and quickly. :thumbs_up
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Losto Caradhras, sedho, hodo, nuitho i 'ruith!

Re: Strange markings on Shards of Narsil

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[quote=""Lindir""]Wait, are the blade pieces on the shards of Narsil plated in something (nickel or silver plated)? If so, I'm pretty sure I can remember Kit saying that metal glo can damage certain platings so you might want to ask him.[/quote]

The blade bits are cast zinc alloy, if I'm not mistaken. I don't remember whether they have a clear coat or not, though. Use only a little bit of the product and only rub gently for a short period and even the clear coat (if present) will probably stay intact.
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Losto Caradhras, sedho, hodo, nuitho i 'ruith!

Re: Strange markings on Shards of Narsil

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[quote=""Lindir""]Wait, are the blade pieces on the shards of Narsil plated in something (nickel or silver plated)? If so, I'm pretty sure I can remember Kit saying that metal glo can damage certain platings so you might want to ask him.[/quote]

Thank you for asking that question- I know some of these kinds of items have certain finishes that can be damaged by cleaners. I would hate to wreck something as awesome and rare as the Shards.

Thanks guys for helping me out with this. Some metal glo should do the trick!

Re: Strange markings on Shards of Narsil

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The blades are cast zinc, nickel silver plated, polished and some weathering added, then a semi gloss clear coat. If you use Metal Glow, Flitz, or any polish, it will tend to make the clear coat shinier. Not a big deal, but if you polish too much you can polish the clear right off.

Those look like the marks made by plastic when it heats up against the blades, same kind of thing that happens often to stainless and carbon steel when they sit for too long in heat, like they do in those container ships for several weeks as they get shipped to United. It's like baking plastic to steel in an oven.
KRDS

Re: Strange markings on Shards of Narsil

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Since I stripped my Shards "Patina"paint off; I'd say there is no clear coat.
Because it is paint, I don't no that Metal glo would work.

After stripping the blade and pieces, I discovered contamination under the paint. I personally have no doubt it was an oil that dripped down some where along the production line, so my guess is you are seeing that.
The paint caused the oil drip to crawl making the odd shapes you see, and time has worked it through because it changed the dynamics of the paint.

It's an educated guess, but still my guess.
"and I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with skill, ability and knowledge in all kinds of crafts- to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver and bronze, to cut stones, to work in wood, and engage in all kinds of craftsmanship"

Re: Strange markings on Shards of Narsil

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I hate to shoot down your guess, but nothing was oiled in the construction of the Shards of Narsil since there was no real steel used for the blades :)

The causes for those type of marks are either the polybag chemically breaking down onto the surface due to heat, or heat and oil chemically breaking down plastic. Or the nickel oxidizing under the clear coat. It's rare, but have seen it happen. I have also seen a type of mold grow on the surface of these parts that has a very similar pattern, but that is also rare and only happens when they are stored in dark, humid places for several years.

There is always a clear coat on anything plated, unless it is chrome. There is not a single cast zinc external part on any LOTR sword that does not have a clear coat. Nickel, brass, and gold plating all oxidize and change color, so they have to be sealed. The dull surface finish you see on the blade shards is actually the clear coat. It's a 60% shiny/40% dull mix. The nickel silver plating underneath is shiny but with a slightly dull satin sheen from a light polish with steel wool. If you strip the clear paint off, that's what you will see.

Metal Glo will polish the clear coat shiny with light rubbing, and with heavy rubbing it will strip the clear off - but it does take some work. I partially strip the clear coat down for a weathering effect, like on the aged Sting scabbard I customized last year. It does take some work to get it off though.

I should also say, I'm not too sure what United sells now is the same old Metal Glow formula. The paste in the last tube I bought a few months ago looked and smelled different. It polished OK, but I did not notice the carbon breaking down very much (it turns your cloth black), so they may have changed the mix, or changed to something completely different. Flitz polishing paste is the exact same stuff that was in the old Metal Glo, so that is another option.
KRDS

Re: Strange markings on Shards of Narsil

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[quote=""Nasnandos""]I hate to shoot down your guess, but nothing was oiled in the construction of the Shards of Narsil since there was no real steel used for the blades :)

There is always a clear coat on anything plated, unless it is chrome. There is not a single cast zinc external part on any LOTR sword that does not have a clear coat. Nickel, brass, and gold plating all oxidize and change color, so they have to be sealed. The dull surface finish you see on the blade shards is actually the clear coat. It's a 60% shiny/40% dull mix. The nickel silver plating underneath is shiny but with a slightly dull satin sheen from a light polish with steel wool. If you strip the clear paint off, that's what you will see.[/quote]
I wasn't suggesting there was any oil used on the product itself, I was suggesting there is oil or another contaminate somewhere in the assembly factory that got on the blade prior to plating.
I did strip my Shards, there was contamination on the piece which did not allow the plating to take on those spots.
The heavy clear coat covered that until I stripped it off.
It does makes sense that it was a dull coating that did not allow much of the shiny nickel to show through.
My guess was based on a contamination under the coating that has found a way to crawl under the coating.

I guess if it's on the outer surface of the coating, it will come off.
"and I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with skill, ability and knowledge in all kinds of crafts- to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver and bronze, to cut stones, to work in wood, and engage in all kinds of craftsmanship"

Re: Strange markings on Shards of Narsil

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[quote=""Thranduil""]I wasn't suggesting there was any oil used on the product itself, I was suggesting there is oil or another contaminate somewhere in the assembly factory that got on the blade prior to plating.
[/quote]
Neither was I. There was no oil used at any point in the casting process. The parts air cool. They also went through a degreaser bath prior to going into the copper and n/s plating tanks, then again after plating. That was standard procedure back then. The only point the surface could be contaminated is if one of the workers handling the part was not wearing gloves and got finger prints on them, or for certain polishing operations where buffing compound was used on a polishing wheel and got stuck in a crack or crevice. That kind of thing was usually the cause of the oxidation under the clear coat that I mentioned above.

Then there are simple plating defects, where the copper plating under the nickel silver plating was not consistent and caused the nickel silver not to bond in places, or to bubble.
Last edited by Nasnandos on Wed May 21, 2014 5:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
KRDS

Re: Strange markings on Shards of Narsil

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Just an FYI, for anyone interested in the difference between the old and new Metal Glo - I had a little bit of the old stuff left in a tube so I compared the two last night. They are definitely a different composition, but both seem to remove surface carbon about the same. Both polish well, but I think the new Metal Glo formula has finer micro particles than the old, as the polish looks a bit different and feels smoother. However, it does not polish as fast as the old stuff.

I also stripped the clear coat off the back of one of my Shards of Narsil blades for comparison. The new Metal Glow actually stripped the clear off much faster than the old, so chemically it is stronger in that area. Just be careful, as it strips the clear coat and and starts to polish the nickel silver underneath at the same time, making it too shiny.

Of course you can always correct that by spraying it again with a new semi-gloss clear coat, which I recommend doing anyway, since the plating will oxidize over time if not resealed. Before doing that, be sure to wipe it down with rubbing alcohol, or preferably denatured alcohol, before resealing it to completely clean the surface.
KRDS

Re: Strange markings on Shards of Narsil

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Ren Wax is actually just polyethylene wax, so it is a really good sealer to prevent oxidation. It can rub off in places where it is handled a lot, whereas a clear coat is thicker and won't, but I don't e xp ect people are handling the Shards on a daily basis.

It won't return the Shard's to that slightly dull look like a semi-gloss clear coat will, however.
KRDS

Re: Strange markings on Shards of Narsil

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[quote=""Nasnandos""]Then there are simple plating defects, where the copper plating under the nickel silver plating was not consistent and caused the nickel silver not to bond in places, or to bubble.[/quote]
Must have been minor microscopic pin holes in the casting that caused the bubbles. Usually it's a contaminate.
"and I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with skill, ability and knowledge in all kinds of crafts- to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver and bronze, to cut stones, to work in wood, and engage in all kinds of craftsmanship"

Re: Strange markings on Shards of Narsil

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There are lost of causes, but in our case it was usually to much additive in the bath to reduce gas bubbles. Result of the plating company trying to do everything as fast as possible. Other times it has been because the parts actually developed oxide spots because they were not properly stored when going from the caster to the plater.The copper does not flash over the spot, then there is a large void under the nickel in that spot.

I'm glad I don't have to deal with that stuff anymore.
KRDS
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