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Yeah... reruns bite unless you somehow missed a show or two along the way.

Talking about the destruction of the original NCC-1701 in the favourite ship thread, I remembered a question I had long ago that bugged me for a while and then I completely forgot about.

It concerns the auto-destruct sequence. I was sure I heard in several shows that the ship's auto-destruct was tied to the warp engines. Essentially, the ship is destroyed via warp core or reactor breach after the correct codes are inputed from the bridge by the command crew. Here is my question then:

In ST III, we watch Kirk, Scotty, and Chekov go through the now-familiar steps of inputing their codes. This is all fine and well. Then the countdown begins, and this is fine too. My problem comes when the ship begins to e xp lode. First we see bridge consoles blowing up, followed by an external shot of the bridge dome e xp loding outward. Next we see the hull plating on the saucer section begin to disintegrate, and then the entire primary hull e xp lodes, leaving only a shattered fragment still attached to the secondary hull as the entire ship plunges into the atmosphere. So where do the warp engines come into all this? Not once do they e xp lode, and they appear intact even as the ship burns up in it's descent.

So, was there some other system of onboard e xp losive charges that were tied to the auto-destruct instead of the warp engines, or did the writers of ST III screw up? The auto-destruct is used several times in the history of Star Trek as a bluff by captains to threaten enemies with destruction. With sophisticated sensors in use, this bluff wouldn't be of much use if the enemy could tell that the resulting e xp losion would be so small as to not present a threat to their own ship. An e xp losion as seen in ST III is definitely very low-key as the nearby Bird of Prey escapes unscathed. So my theory is that for the auto-destruct to be of any use as a weapon, it has to go through the matter/anti-matter reactor and therefore produce a much greater e xp losion.

What do you guys think?

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Theres probably many e xp lanations... maybe the main e xp losion is a warp core breach, but maybe the circuits in the consols overload too and cause the other e xp losions.
or maybe the special f/x people screwed up and noone caught it.
i always like the autodestruct bluff, but you cant beat the autodestruct out of desperation, but you hear the ever present computer voice say "self-destruct is offline" (i.e. nemesis)
i liked the TNG ep when they had the autodestruct going and picard cancels and the computer asks riker if he agrees or sometthing and riker is like "yes i do agree, i concur wholeheartedly" or something along those lines in a paniced voice. and picard is like "i agree would have been suffice" and riker goes "i wanted to make sure there wasnt any confusion".... there was like 5 seconds left to turn it off.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

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That observation, a very good one, has never been e xp lained in a canonical fashion by Star Trek. The e xp lanation put forth in "Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise" by Shane Johnson is as good as any. The Enterprise has 2 destruct modes. The one depicted sets off ordnance charges strategically placed throughout the ship. The antimatter containment pods are ejected to safety prior to triggering the charges. This method would be used when in proximity to a planet or anything else you wouldn't want to subject to an antimatter blast.

The other method involves dropping the magnetic containment field around the antimatter storage pods, and the resultant e xp losion destroys the ship, as well as anything nearby. This method would be used in deep space.

The book's e xp lanation of how to trigger one version versus the other: "0 0 0 destruct 0" triggers the ordnance method, while "0 0 0 destruct 1" triggers an antimatter e xp losion

Of course, it's easy to find fault with any and all of this. The destruction we saw in ST III leaves the secondary hull along with the warp drive and presumably a lot of sensitive engineering systems undestroyed for your enemy to pick thru. Maybe the self-destruct circuitry was damaged by the battle with the Klingons and only partly worked? Also, if the antimatter pods were ejected, they could be retrieved by the enemy and used as weapons, or they might fall into the gravity well of the planet that you were trying to spare, and detonate in its atmosphere.

I think the e xp losion depicted in ST III was designed simply to look cool, and that it did in abundance. The myriad times we've seen starships destroyed by an antimatter or warp core containment breach, the effect has been pretty underwhelming. There's an e xp losion that destroys the whole ship, but that's it. Also, the e xp losions are not NEARLY big enough to portray what would happen when a sizeable quantity of antimatter reacts with matter.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

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That's a very sensible e xp lanation, though it does pose the problems you pointed out. Perhaps Starfleet captains have orders to engage the lesser auto-destruct only when there is another friendly vessel within sufficient range to rescue crew and equipment before it falls into enemy hands? Who really knows, but I'm sure the officer's manual contains extensive regulations on the auto-destruct procedures.

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Well, looks like they're at it again:

Star Trek XI
Script Sales has registered the next film already and delivers a logline hint - "To possibly center around the Romulan war". Erik Jendresen penned the script which Rick Berman, Jordan Kerner and Kerry McCluggage will develop.

I can only assume this means the Romulan War fought prior to Kirk's time in the Trek timeline. I knew they were planning a prequel movie and this gives me a little hope that they won't go forward with the rumoured teenage drama Starfleet Academy plot. I guess this war was probably something they were hoping to touch on in Enterprise, but now that the show has been cancelled, perhaps they are moving the idea to the big screen?

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There's a site called TrekUnited whose purpose is to raise donations to fund Enterprise for another season. Personally, I think this is a bad idea. They either make the show or they don't--I'm not going to bribe them to make it, esp. when they'll make money from DVD sales even if the live run doesn't bring in the viewers. It sets a really bad precedent in an industry that's already to skewed toward instant money. That said, not everyone feels the way I do. In fact, a couple of aerospace execs, who entered their field because of Star Trek, are opening their wallets to the tune of $3 million (US). Read all about it:

http://www.saveenterprise.com/3m_contribution.htm

Regarding the movie, a Romulan war storyline would not surprise me. It would somewhat follow up on Nemesis (though why they'd chose to do that, considering how hard Nemesis tanked), and it would follow up on Enterprise. The last official thing I read wasn't too informative--Berman was still holding his cards close to the vest. However, ST information usually gets out on the internet long before Berman admits what they're up to.

I didn't know the Starfleet academy idea was still alive. That was discussed after ST V tanked. Harve Bennett was the big proponent of that idea. The original cast was against it (duh) and campaigned vigorously against it at conventions. The faithful then went forth and deluged Paramount with negativity, Harve Bennett took a walk, and ST VI ensued.

I'm not too keen on the idea myself, no matter which crew it would show the younger adventures of. To me, William Shatner is Kirk, Patrick Stewart is Picard, etc. Another questionable idea, and this one was merely floated by a fan in a letter, would be to do an original TOS cast movie set around the time of the series, with CGI stand-ins for the cast to enable them to be young again. Of course, they'd have to synthesize De Kelley's voice, and de-agify the voices of the rest of them (particularly Jimmy Doohan, although he's probably too far gone to participate even as a voice--he was pretty shocking in his interview on the TOS Season 3 box).
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

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As much as I love Star Trek, they won't be getting my money through a petition. Paramount and their decision can go hang, as far as I'm concerned.

The prequel movie rumours have been floating around for ages, this is just another incarnation, but it seems to be a little more concrete considering I just read elsewhere that Erik Jendresen has in fact been signed to pen the script. Whether it will deal with the Romulan War, that remains to be seen.

While we are on the topic of Nemesis, here is my question for the day. Did it strike anyone as just a little too illogical and convenient that out of all the high ranking politicians in the Federation, as well Fleet Admirals and other officers, that the Romulans would clone Picard? I mean, given that Shinzon was technically only about ten years old, that would still place the harvesting of his genetic material at a time when Picard was hardly of note, merely one of hundreds of other captains in the fleet. Why would the Romulans single him out for such an important and highly covert e xp eriment? If they had done it post-TNG and First Contact, one could argue that yes indeed, Picard was a very noteworthy captain and possibly very influential, but ten years ago??? What exactly were they hoping to accomplish with this clone, especially when there was no way of predicting if Picard would be important, not to mention alive by the time the clone was ready to act.

I don't know about you, but the plot for that movie seemed highly cobbled together, and as I said, just a little too convinient and non-sensical that Picard was the one chosen to be cloned out of several hundred more likely candidates. And don't even get me started on the fact that a human outcast living on a prison planet could possibly rise to so easily overthrow one of the most powerful and long-standing empires in the Alpha quadrant. :loco:

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I haven't watched Nemesis in a while, so I don't know how long Shinzon is supposed to have been alive. If it were 10 years since his DNA was stolen, that would be after the time of "The Best of Both Worlds" twofer. They've tried to keep the unfolding of the NG timeline at a pace of one year our time = one year in the lives of the characters. SO going back 10 years from 2002, when Nemesis came out, would be 1992, which was late in the run of TNG. I'd say Picard was certainly very accomplished and noteworthy by then. Two years prior to that, the Borg picked him to be their "liaison," such as he was, to the Federation. Of course, he was the captain of the only Federation ship they'd encountered (at least as far as we knew then). Also, even within the context of the series, the Enterprise is considered the flagship of Starfleet, and its captaincy isn't given to just anyone. Starfleet would have felt Picard had distinguished himself sufficiently to give him command of the flagship, or of any Galaxy-class vessel, for that matter. So it's not a total stretch that they would pick Picard for some nefarious clone plot. They probably figured that 10 years down the road, he'd be a high-ranking admiral. There could also have been an issue of availability. Was his DNA easily available (well, if he'd been Kirk, the answer would certainly be yes! :eek: )? I e xp ected them to make some reference from obtaining it from his original heart, which they'd come by somehow. Perhaps it was just from a hair--he seems to have shed most of them! There's also the issue that if my timeline is correct in terms of when they got his DNA, he wasn't one of hundreds of captains--he was one of possibly only dozens. A huge junk of Starfleet was wiped out by the Borg. So it doesn't bother me that they picked Picard. You have to grant a certain measure of acceptance because the movie is going to center around your captain. If they'd decided to clone Lt. Barclay, then I wouldn't be so accepting.

As for Shinzon's ability to survive the Reman prison system (and it was always Wesley Crusher that we wanted sent to a Klingon prison planet :eek: ), obviously a human couldn't survive it by physically besting Remans or Romulans, even tho whatsiz-hoozit took him under his wing. Since Shinzon's of a totally different race, he would probably think differently than the Roms or the Rems, and perhaps by thinking outside their box, he worked his way to top of the heap on Remus. How that translates into getting his own ship, etc., I don't know.

Speaking of the Remans, what are they? Are they indigenous to the Romulus/Remus system, or are the mutated Romulans? Did they get sent to Remus because of their condition, or did living their make them what they are?

My problems with Nemesis are mostly that it was a very transparent attempt to clone ST II. The captain has a long-lost son/clone that he must come to terms with, there's an implacable enemy with a superweapon that will be used to destroy Earth, and a much-loved member of the crew will give his life to save the Enterprise. If you're going to copy something you've already done, you better hope people won't notice--not a good bet when you're talking about Star Trek fans. The only possible way to get them not to notice--or not to care if they do notice--is to do it better than you did the first time. And that's where Nemesis really breaks down. In fact, that's where Generations broke down too. These Berman movies can't seem to place enough emotion behind the death of a major character. Kirk's death in Generations and Data's death in Nemesis were both handled far too matter-of-factly. The music is partly to blame--Berman prefers sonic wallpaper to what some people deride as "bombast." Well, if one of your main characters sacrifices himself, that's an operatic moment and the music should be suitably heroic. Also, the villain in Nemesis came off as a whiny brat, little better than Anakin Skywalker in the Star Wars prequels. I'd certainly e xp ect more from a clone of Picard's.

All that aside, I certainly didn't hate the movie. It wasn't my favorite, but I thought it would have done better box office than it did. I think (hope) Paramount learned a lesson about going toe to toe with LOTR and Harry Potter.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

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Ok, here we go. :)

Least favourite episode,

TOS: "Spock's Brain" so awful, it's funny.
TNG: Anything with Lwaxana Troi or some kind of holodeck plotline.
DS9: Pick any number from the first and second seasons... so boring, they are interchangeable in my mind.
Voyager: Again anything with the holodeck, especially Captain Proton. Also, the doctor singing opera got extremely tiresome and grating after a while.
Enterprise: The one where they go to a planet and there's a civilization living in the wild west times. Haven't we seen this a dozen times before?

Least favourite movie,

ST IX - Insurrection: Absolutely nothing going for it. Bored me to tears. The fact that it was revealed that you could fly the Enterprise-E with a joystick nearly made me walk out of the theatre.

Least favourite character: This would have to be a tie between Data and Neelix. The latter was just plain whinny and annoying all the time. As for Data, I really don't see what the big deal was about him. It was an interesting concept, but I think the show kinda beat it to death after a while, and he got way too much overe xp osure to the point that any show centered around him became plain uninteresting and ultimately predictable. In the movies, aside from Picard, he was once again the one that had the most to do, and when he died in Nemesis, I honestly couldn't care less, especially knowing there was a convenient replacement standing by. I really think way too much got made of this character.

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Least favorite episodes, by series:

TOS: "The Way to Eden" (space hippies)
TNG: "The Game" (Wesley Crusher saves the ship from a video game)
DS9: Can't think of the episode title, but it's the one where a runabout comes back from the gamma quadrant with a baby universe stuck to its nacelle. Instead of destroying the thing while they can, they elect to return it to where they found it, even though it's e xp anding and will someday destroy our universe. And why did they not destroy it? Because it MIGHT develop life. Well, HELLO, our universe already has life, and that's a fact. It was a good episode up till that point.
VOY: Hmmm, there's a lot to choose from here. And since I just watched them all within the last few months, you'd think I'd be able to think of one. That two-parter about renegade holograms was pretty lame.
ENT: I'm not familiar enough to really pick one here. I've only seen these once apiece. The one where Archer has to conduct all sorts of onerous labors to atone for Porthos' having whizzed on some sacred object on a planet was pretty silly. Also, I didn't care for the one where Tripp and T'Pol got it on. Star Trek of the modern era has a very annoying tendency of setting up an incipient relationship, then never paying off: Picard and (Beverly) Crusher, Janeway and Chakotay, Archer and T'Pol. They always come up with this idea that the Captain can't have a relationship, so it's the first officer that gets the action instead. And why can't the Captain have a relationship? Well, it wouldn't be appropriate to have a relationship with someone under your command. So how does that make it alright that the First Officer can have the fling, since everyone else on the ship except the Captain is under his/her command?

Least favorite movie: tossup between V and VI. They both had such lowest-common-denominator silliness masquerading as humor that it was pathetic.

Least favorite character:

TOS: Chekov--too contrived
TNG: I HATED Riker the first two seasons, then he mellowed and I liked him. After that, I don't know who I liked least.
DS9: Dax, probably, in spite of the fact that she was beautiful. She just wasn't as interesting as the other characters, in spite of her symbiotic nature.
VOY: Tom Paris--too annoying
ENT: Tripp--he's whiney

OK, to leaven the negativity, here are my favorite characters:

TOS: McCoy
TNG: Picard
DS9: Kira--best female character in the history of Star Trek. She can kick butt with the best of them, yet is soft and sensitive too.
VOY: Janeway, with the Doctor and 7 as runners-up
ENT: probably Phlox, tho I like T'Pol when she's not romancing the wrong guy.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

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Reply to Olorin: I'm pretty sure it is mentioned that Shinzon had only grown over the course of ten years, hence leading me to think that Picard was still too unimportant at the time. I know that each season of the show was meant to represent a year of real time, but was not aware that the same held true for the movies and the gaps in between. I hadn't heard of that anywhere, and thus I was under the assumption that the period of time including the four movies and the in between lagz was far less than the time that passed for us.

If that is the case, then yeah... I guess Picard was more high profile, and thus the plot of the Romulans makes more sense. Otherwise, it is still a little illogical.

As for the Remans, I have no clue what the writers were thinking of there. I had always assumed (a notion fostered by several Star Trek novels,) that the twin worlds of Romulus and Remus were essentially inhabited by the same race, with no real distinction, political or otherwise, between the two. Of course, the books are not canon, and since Remus was never touched on in the series or movies, this left it open for whatever they wanted to do with it. The concept they came up with is intriguing, but it leaves more questions than it answers. It would be cool if the Remans were descended from the Romulans, but their appearance seems to widely divergent for that. Another possible theory is that, since the Romulans are not native to their star system, having originally come from Vulcan, perhaps the Remans are all that is left of the original race of those planets, whom the Romulans conquered long ago.

By the way, has anyone ever attempted to e xp lain why an entire alien culture, as well as their two home worlds, are named after an ancient Roman myth? Does it strike anyone else as odd? And if that is merely the human designation for them, then why would the Romulans refer to themselves as such, and not by their real name? Same goes for Vulcan, which is the Roman name for the Greek god Hephaestus. What are the true names that Vulcans and Romulans have for themselves?

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To reply to Valkrist about Romulus, Remus, and Vulcan... i dont know what they are called in their native language, but I guess that is the name that the humans called them and entered into their universal translators... like we call Germany, Germany and people from Germany call it Deutschland.


As for my least favorites:
Characters
TOS: Uhura.. she didnt do anything for me
TNG: Wesley got on my nerves quite a bit, i think he actually did the opposite of what he was supposed to. i think he was meant to be someone that younger people could relate to, but he came across as a little farthead know-it-all. Lwaxana was also annoying.
DS9:Jake Sisco, he actually had the same effect on my as wesley did
VOY: I didnt watch Voyager and i have no idea when/if it comes on reruns
ENT: i've only really watched it this year, so i dont really have a least fav.

Eps
TOS: dont really have one, havent seen them all
TNG: The Child (when Troi gets pregnant from an alien; 2nd season premiere)
DS9: there isnt really one that i can pick out.. the 1 1/2 seasons were kinda slow, murder mystery type shows
Voy and Ent - see above

just a side note: any time wesley saves the day when he is like a kid and Geordi and Data cant figure out an engineering problem and wesley has to save the day makes me want to push him out of an airlock.
i think more people would have liked wesley if he didnt save the day so dang much.
Movies: By far my least fave is V (as a rebuttle to Olorin and Valkrist... I like VI and IX)

My faves characters:
TOS: Scotty/McCoy
TNG: Riker/Data
DS9: O'Brien - nonstarfleet - Quark/Garak
VOY:----
ENT: Dr Phlox is quite humerous
Last edited by BladeCollector on Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: forgot something
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

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I can't see the universal translator translating proper nouns as that would be kind of a silly feature. Problem is, we always hear the Romulans and Vulcans refer to themselves as simply that, even amongst themselves, giving no hint that they have another name. The term 'Klingon,' for example, makes much more sense because it is believable as an alien word. Romulan and Vulcan do not.

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I just watched the DS9 series finale (it came on Spike TV today; if you wanna catch it, buy the dvds or wait about 4-5 months :) ) man, that last 20 minutes was almost a tear jerker. when everyone is leaving and thinking back :'( ... those finales can getcha sometimes... well if you want to know DS9 will be starting over starting tomorrow on Spike Tv, if you wanna catch some early eps.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

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The Star Trek novels gave the "real" names for Romulus and Remus. I don't remember exactly what they were, but the book "The Romulan Way" by Diane Duane and Peter Morwood lays out their version of Romulan history.

I never assumed that the Universal Translator came up with the names Romulus, Remus, or Vulcan. I assumed those were names humans gave them for whatever reason, before they knew the real names. Vulcan was a hot hell-hole, hence it was called for the god of the forge. Romulus and Remus as twin planets were called after the twins Romulus and Remus, who were raised by a wolf--a pithy commentary on the Romulan people. Of course, that theory only works well if humans knew about these worlds prior to meeting people from there and learning about them and their names for their worlds. Which of course, they didn't. On the other hand, we still call Deutschland "Germany" even though we know that Germany is not its name, and Deutschland isn't at all hard to pronounce. Österreich is of course a different story!

I don't know if it's ever made e xp licit that time continues in the gaps between the movies, but it's certainly implicit. Insurrection and Nemesis both refer to the Dominion War, and Nemesis features Admiral Janeway, obviously returned from the Delta Quadrant and wearing a current Star Fleet uniform. I think it's reasonable to assume that time continues flowing at the same pace along the NG storyline as it does in the DS9 and VOY storylines, which ran concurrently with the movies.

The only unsolved mystery: why does Janeway have her hair up in that damned bun again? Her better hair styles in the Delta Quadrant must have been a result of being so far from Earth: dress code was, I guess, one regulation where she felt she could--here it comes--let her hair down.
Last edited by Olorin on Wed Mar 02, 2005 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

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I didnt mean to sound that the universal translator came up with those words... i meant that thats what the humans called those planets and these are the words that we here.


i know a website that has some dates listed for trek i will look it up.

but trek does follow a yearly timeline, each season is a year, and the seasons that overlap (TNG/DS9 and DS9/Voyager) occur in the same year. and i believe that as with movies... if a movie came out during a year with a new season, the movie took place during the times between the seasons (like summer months)
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

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Okay here are some dates... this is based off of someone with alot of spare time that based the Stardates to regular years because in one episode, they mentioned a year.
here are some major events.

Earth-Romulan War - 2150s or 2160s
NX-01 launches - 2151
Enterprise launches with Kirk - 2245
The Motion Picture - 2271 (notice the huge gap between TOS, this movie and Khan)
Wrath of Khan - 2285
Search for spock - 2285
voyage home - 2285 (busy year)
final frontier - 2285
undiscovered country - 2293
picard rejected from Starfleet - 2322
picard graduates - 2327
picard assumes command of the stargazer - 2333 (got a comand in 6 years)
Enterprise-D launches - 2363
Picard assimilated by the borg - 2366
Battle at Wolf 359 - 2367 (picard was a member of the borg for a few months)
Klingon Civil War - 2368
Sisko takes command of DS9 - 2369
First contact with Dominion - 2370
TNG series finale - 2370
Voyager is thrown in Delta Quad - 2371
Star Trek Generations - 2371
Worf joins DS9 crew - 2371
Star Trek First Contact - 2373
Sisko recaptures DS9 - 2374
Borg/Species 8427 war ends - 2374
Dominion war ends - 2375
Star Trek Insurrection - 2375
Voyager reaches earth - 2377
Star Trek Nemesis - 2379

An interesting note - Admiral McCoy was in starfleet for 111 years.
Last edited by BladeCollector on Thu Mar 03, 2005 6:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: forgot some dates
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

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I was watching the series premiere of DS9 today and i like to compare people between the end and beginning (since you can see them back to back now)

--- Of course - Sisko has hair and no beard
--- Kira is more harsh and tough in the first episode and the Bajoran uniforms are different (dark red/pinkish in the middle in the 1st season - last season they are pretty much all red (well kira's that is)
--- Quark has a different bigger nose in the 1st episode and more, sharper teeth
--- Rom isnt goofy sounding, he sounds really raspy voiced and mean
--- Odo has a more human look, has wrinkles on his face and isnt smooth like it does get
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

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BladeCollector wrote: Enterprise launches with Kirk - 2245

That's not correct. The Enterprise NCC-1701, which was Kirk's, left Spacedock in 2245, but under the command of Captain Robert April. Kirk was born in 2233, so he'd have only been 12 years old at this time. Taking command of a starship then would have been precocious, even for him! ;)

Two excellent resources for Star Trek, both considered canonical, are The Star Trek Chronology (which I consulted for this post) and The Star Trek Encyclopedia. The only problem is that they're both a bit out of date now--the Chronology goes up to the early years of the Voyager show, but not up to its return. Of course they're not as cheap as a free web site, but they're more reliable.

Which reminds me of the other error. ST IV-2286, ST V-2287.

And pinning another date down more closely, the Earth-Romulus war would have ended around 2160. TNG established that the Federation was founded in 2161, and it was founded after the end of that war. That's a date that Enterprise would probably throw out the window if it hadn't been cancelled, since the producers don't feel beholden to stick with established facts that get in the way.

I can't believe no one commented on my post about aerospace execs pledging $3M to keep Enterprise on the air.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

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I had a question maybe one of you could shed some light on... remember the episode in TNG (Parallels - 7th season) when Worf is coming back from the bat'leth tourny and he ends up switching through different alternate universes and it states that for every possible action an alternate universe exists... like i can turn left or right and i choose right, there is an alternate timeline that would be if i went left...

anyway, this ep says there are many alternate timelines and stuff, but in DS9, the alternate universe is like the only one, or am i getting my alternate timelines and alternate universe mixed up?
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

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I'll take a stab at the alternate universe business and hope there are no theoretical physicists lurking on UC Forums waiting to humiliate me.

In the Worf episode, the different universes are a depiction of quantum probability theory, which is the what if I turn left vs. what if I turn right deal. For every choice, a different set of probabilities attaches, and the universe proceeds differently. As far as the mirror universe, its relationship to the "regular" universe or to quantum probabilities was never e xp lained. It could simply be that it's another universe resulting from a different decision some one made. Presumably that decision was made quite some time ago, and the two universes diverged dramatically from each other.

I really liked that Worf episode, but it missed a huge opportunity for a cool title. The classic example given in e xp laining quantum theory is something called Schrödinger's Cat. It postulates a cat contained in a box, which also contains a sealed flask of cyanide, a tiny amount of radioactive isotope, and a trigger mechanism linking the isotope to the cyanide. During the one hour e xp eriment, if an atom decays and is detected, the flask will be broken by a hammer and the cat will be gassed. If an atom doesn't decay, obviously the cat lives. Schrödinger's theory, if I understand correctly, says that since you can't see into the system, what's inside is only a cloud of probabilities. Sidebar comment: as a friend of animals in general and someone who adores cats above pretty much anything else on this planet, I find the whole concept of such an e xp eriment, even as a thought e xp eriment, completely repellant. Anyway, dragging this slowly back toward Worf.... Robert Heinlein wrote a book called The Cat Who Walks Through Walls. The title character in it is a cat who can pass at will from one quantum universe to another (and also can pass through solid objects like walls). The reason hypothesized by one of the human characters for why the cat can do this is that no one has ever told him he can't. Anyway, they also referred to him as Schrödinger's Cat because of his relationship to quantum probability universes. And how this relates to ST is that they should have called that episode Schrödinger's Klingon. Anyone who'd read Heinlein or had heard of quantum probability would have loved it (and both groups are probably well represented among Trek fandom!).

And now for something completely different.... Val, I forgot you'd commented about the $3M, which was unusual since your comment mirrored my sentiment so exactly.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

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Were real scientists involved in the creative/scientific aspect of trek? i know most all of the technology is based on real theories, but i always wondered if they had someone e xp laining this stuff, or if the writers just heard about something and went with it... sometimes, especially with geordi and data, their e xp lanations are pretty detailed and sound good.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

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They usually have a science advisor. On TOS, some of the eps were written by well-know SF authors, too. On ST:TMP, the Great One himself, Isaac Asimov, was credited as a science consultant or some such. Andre Bormanis has served as science consultant on the more recent series.

Insurrection special edition will be released in the US and Canada on June 7.

There's a long-shot rumor that Spike TV might pick up Enterprise for Season 5.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

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In typical fashion, UPN didn't even show a repeat of Enterprise Friday night. I guess they figure, we've cancelled it, why give anyone the chance to catch up if they've missed an episode. Instead they showed an extra episode of .... America's Next Top Model!

[Puke.]
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

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Valkrist wrote:That really is strange... we got an episode up here on Friday... it was the beginning of the Vulcan arc, when Archer gets Surak's katra. I'm pretty sure it was UPN.

That is really strange. I can see BladeCollector getting something off the wall like he did, as he's watching on a non-UPN channel, but if you're seeing UPN, and they showed a repeat from this season, I can't imagine why I got the model-wannabes. Unless Enterprise was preempted and shown at a different time. When they do that, they run a banner across the bottom of the screen telling when it will be.

Not that it matters all that much--I haven't missed any eps this season.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

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I've been wondering... they rereleased all of the Star Trek movies on DVD as special editions so far, except for First Contact and Inssurrection, and we know those are just around the corner. Aside from the ST:TMP (which has a yellow sleeve,) the entire collection has a uniform look, with the double-case and the silver sleeve. My question is this: will Nemesis be rereleased as well in this format? The current version is already loaded with extras, but does not conform to the look of the entire series thus far, and the reason the other movies got a new release is because they originally came out as bare-bones editions. I have the current version of Nemesis, and am wondering if I will have to rebuy it. Anyone hear anything?

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i am not 100% sure, but i do believe i had read somewhere, maybe the paramount website saying that nemesis will be out sometimes around december. because the one out now isnt the "Special Collector's Edition"... maybe they have some more stuff they can add... but it would suck for people to have to buy the movie just to get the matching box.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

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Today at Dark Horizons:

As we know, "Band of Brothers" scribe Erik Jendresen has done a deal with Paramount to write an eleventh Star Trek film which for the first time in history which will feature a whole new cast to be introduced on the big screen.

In an interview with
SyFyPortal, Jendresen confirmed that the movie would take place more than a century before Kirk, but acknowledged that it would not be an "Enterprise" spinoff. "I can certainly say that the story concept, the basic idea of this thing, is pretty damn big... When they first approached me, I wasn't really interested. But they said, 'What if we could approach this as a blank slate, and here's a notion.' When I heard the notion, I realized that the people I was talking to were serious, and genuinely dedicated. I started to really think about it, and, ultimately to develop a story. And it's a pretty good one" said the scribe.

The plan is to do something grittier, "There's an old tradition in space films, if you think about it, where war and conflict are very sterile. Death doesn't hurt, it's not really ugly. You can get killed by a phaser and just ... disintegrate. We're going 160-odd years before Kirk is born. It's an earlier time, and I think it would be really refreshing to feel something in the course of telling this tale, instead of being wowed by special effects, or presenting another crew in jeopardy where, in the end, the captain does something brilliant, and all's right with the world" says Jendresen.

Reports have "Star Trek XI" being released sometime in 2007. No director or cast has been set yet, but it is clear that characters from other Star Trek properties will not be included
.

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Hmmmm....

well that throws out the Romulan War-era movie.... 160 years before Kirk was born would put it being around 10 years after First Contact which was in 2063, this would be around 2073... so this movie is gonna be showing everything from scratch... no Warp 5 capable starship.. this movie seems to be set about 80 years prior to NX-01.

i guess this is gonna show the immediate after effects with first contact... i would imagine great amount of hostility towards vulcans and things like that.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

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I'm not sure what I think of that idea. For starters, it smacks of Paramount looking to make something so cheaply that they aren't going to pay to have Patrick Stewart or anybody else in it. Beyond that, one of the most appealing things about Star Trek is getting to see characters you know and love. With the ST TV series, you had many episodes to get to know them. If they're going to do a new crew, they will have to write characters that really grab you right away. Regarding the time line, I wonder if that "scribe" got it right. It seems unlikely to me. On the other hand, I guess it's no more unlikely than doing a ST movie w/all new characters!

I know they're thinking they really need to do something new and drastic to reinvigorate the franchise. Personally I think the best thing they could do is just let it alone for 10 years or so, then start thinking about doing something again.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

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I agree with Olorin... this movie is going to be an extremely hard sell for audiences, including Star Trek fans. Without any recognizable characters or setting, this is going to be some unknown science fiction movie that just happens to have the name 'Star Trek' in front of the title. Dumb idea, if you ask me, and yeah... they really should just give this a good rest for now.

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i sadly have to agree.. as much faith as i have in star trek... the actual name of "star trek" isnt drawing in movie goers and tv viewers... they tried to add "star trek" to enterprise... ratings went up a tad, but not enough.

its a fine line.. the name star trek turns away people who dont want to give it the time of day. another negative is if it says star trek and it is bad... it just brings down credibility... but if it is an awesome movie (we can always hope)... the name star trek will/maybe revitalized
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

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to bring sisco in would take a little bit of e xp laining, especially for new fans... since he was ascended into the higher state of being with the prophets....

my dream movie would be a TNG/DS9/Voyager crossover...3-movie arc (something about trilogies these days)... kinda like go balls to the wall... put massive amounts of money, Special F/X, the whole nine yards... put everyone in the movie... every species, klingon, romulan, cardassian, bajoran, vulcan, breen, jem'hadar, vorta, and borg... just make it a HUGE massive movie.

not that i have any chance at all of it actually being made, but i was playing around with a story a while back, never got to finish it... maybe one day i'll finish it and let you guys read it. i am on spring break... i guess i could write a few chapters...
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

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That's a very interesting possibility, GTW, and I've always been of the opinion that the direction to go with Star Trek is forward, not backward. At least you get to bring in known characters to the franchise to make cameos, rather than having to rely on the dubious popularity of an all-new cast and setting. The problem with continuing the established timeline is, however, where do you go from there? So much has been done and tried, I think the writers were up against a wall to come up with new things to keep the audience interested, even if viewed from a new angle as you propose with your West-Wing idea (which I do like.)

Enterprise was an interesting concept, but one that met up with a lot of resitance from fans for the reasons mentioned above. The obvious appeal for the writers was that they would get to tap into a period of time where things were not only mostly unknown, but where we had already been given tantalizing glimpses of history. The opportunity to show some of those moments was cool, the problem was the show was tough to get off the ground, and we had to get used to liking a whole new cast allover again. Then, just when things are getting good, they pull the plug? It's enough to make one quit.

To be quite honest (and I will no doubt end up in Star Trek hell for saying this,) but a big part of me wants this new movie to bomb utterly and dismally. Why? Because I think it is the only way Paramount, and Berman, and whoever else is making these stupid decisions will realize that they either need to listen to the fans who made this show what it is today, or they should pack up their bags and move on. Nemesis was the warning shot that they obviously failed to ignore. While not a terrible movie, it was tired old ground, and it left a bad enough taste in the cast's mouths to not want to do anymore. I hated seeing Patrick Stewart and co. go out like that. At least ST VI, for all its faults, gave the original cast a much better sendoff.

After the poor turnout for Nemesis, instead of sticking to what they said, which was no more movies for a long time, they're back at it again with this ill-conceived, half-baked idea... not even tapping into what is semi-established with Enterprise, but going ahead with completely unknown things... and with only the benefit of two-hours to make us interested in it? No thanks. I think they have lost all perspective and need to give Star Trek a much needed, long vacation. All they are doing is eroding and destroying what sympathy the fans have left for the Star Trek name.

I guess no one at Paramount has paid attention to what Lucas did to the Star Wars franchise. Now there's a harsh lesson to be learned. :loco:

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Not to bring over the star wars discussion, but George Lucas created star wars, its his right to ruin it or whatever one may think of the current trilogy.

Roddenberry created this and now Paramount is treating like the proverbial red-headed step child. and Berman... i just dont know what to say... Berman was around when TNG was in its heyday.. i dont know what happened to him. Braga isnt involved with the new movie at all (or so he says, he may be involved later)
how did berman become the head of the star trek franchise?
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

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I agree Lucas can do whatever he wants, but the cost has been steep. The situation with Star Trek is not the same, but there are some sad similarities, and this new movie points to that. That's all I'm trying to say.

As for Berman's role, I don't know, but his name seems to pop up every time Star Trek is mentioned in any way, so I do view him pretty much as Roddenberry's successor, if there is such a person.

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