Re: Pure Star Trek Discussion

2001
The Digital Bits is further reporting today that Paramount has told them that the Complete Adventure Edition of TMP with the Special Longer Version is a limited edition, they expect it to sell out in pre-orders, and when it's gone, it's gone. So if there is any chance you can't live without that cut of the movie, buy it now or forever be trapped in a warp-imbalance wormhole.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: Pure Star Trek Discussion

2002
Olorin wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:05 am The Digital Bits is further reporting today that Paramount has told them that the Complete Adventure Edition of TMP with the Special Longer Version is a limited edition, they expect it to sell out in pre-orders, and when it's gone, it's gone. So if there is any chance you can't live without that cut of the movie, buy it now or forever be trapped in a warp-imbalance wormhole.
Phooo... ton... tor.. pe...doe.... awaaaaay! :crazy:

Thank you for the warning, but I can live without it. What about you?
This Space for Rent

Re: Pure Star Trek Discussion

2003
Alas, I cannot. I hit "preorder" on Amazon yesterday as soon as I saw that the longer cut was exclusive to this set. Today's news only validates that decision (in my mind, anyway). Sometimes it's a burden being me, but somebody's got to do it, and I seem best suited.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: Pure Star Trek Discussion

2008
I know you're kidding but they've talked about 8K. I haven't kept up on the topic as I still have 2K and am not in a hurry to upgrade. With my screen size and seating distance, I would not see an increase in resolution by getting 4K, so I'm not getting a new TV until my remarkable Panasonic plasma goes bad.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: Pure Star Trek Discussion

2014
Olorin wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 2:00 pm I do, but for what I paid for this, the extras should include a lock of Nimoy’s hair instead of a cheesy sticker!
You should have sent in more box tops.

"Eternity is an awful long time, especially towards the end."

"What you see and what you hear depends a great deal on where you are standing.
It also depends on what sort of person you are.” -- CSL

Re: Pure Star Trek Discussion

2015
Deimos wrote: Tue Sep 13, 2022 9:53 am
Olorin wrote: Mon Sep 12, 2022 2:00 pm I do, but for what I paid for this, the extras should include a lock of Nimoy’s hair instead of a cheesy sticker!
You should have sent in more box tops.
LOL, smartypants. Back in the olden days when studios actually wanted to sell physical product and encourage customers to buy it, most had some sort of promotional program where you could send in the UPC code from the box and get some sort of free disc, coupon, or other incentive. It's been a long time since I've seen any of those!

Speaking of physical product, and I know this is way off-topic re: Star Trek, but I'm going to put it in here because it probably doesn't merit a thread of its own. In November Paramount is going to release a BluRay box set of the complete series of one of the funniest TV shows of all time: Frasier. Amazon is currently showing it at $130 but that's a steal. List price on the 90s Star Trek single-season DVD sets back in the day was $150, though you could usually get it for about half that. But that was one season, on DVD, not BD. So I think I will be picking this up. I've long wanted a complete Frasier set and I feel that the studios that still fully support physical medial (Paramount) should be rewarded for taking the risk.

And now, to tie this unexpectedly back to Star Trek, Kelsey Grammer famously had a brief appearance in a TNG episode many years ago as Capt. Morgan Bateman.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: Pure Star Trek Discussion

2016
Now I have to retract some of my praise of Paramount. I just found out they are releasing ST: Prodigy on BD in the next few months...but it's only the first half-season! This show's first season was split into two segments by Paramount+ and so far 10 episodes have aired (with the most recent being in February). The description on Amazon says the set contains 10 episodes. So this means they are also artificially splitting the physical media release to rake in extra money.

I have not yet watched the available episodes (waiting for the second batch to air) and have no idea whether the show is good, bad, indifferent, or worth having on BD. But this maneuver by Paramount rankles....
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: Pure Star Trek Discussion

2017
Why not read some reviews before spending your money then? From what I hear, unlike Lower Decks, which is also a cartoon as you know, Prodigy is very much aimed at a younger audience. Not only that, I heard it's of average quality overall at best. So, unless you are being a ST completist, you could probably give this a skip and not lose much.
This Space for Rent

Re: Pure Star Trek Discussion

2021
Olorin wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:25 am I plan to watch the Special Longer Version tonight. It's been many years since I've seen it.
If that's the version that includes the original "Red Alert" computer voice and original klaxon, as well as the line that was cut from the infamous transporter scene, then I might just have to hunt this down.

I hate it when they make changes that I don't like to a movie that I like. Hate it. Hate it. Hate it.
This Space for Rent

Re: Pure Star Trek Discussion

2023
There are several instances throughout the movie where the Enterprise goes to Red Alert. As you know, when that's the case, an automated voice can be heard saying "Red Alert" while the klaxon blares in the background. Pick a scene, any scene when it happens, and compare it to the Director's Cut. You'll see what I mean. I'm sure you'll be like "what's the big deal?" but it's one of those annoying little changes that bothers me.

The cut transporter dialogue I've referenced before and you didn't seemed fussed at all by it. The missing lines are:

Kirk: Starfleet, did you get them back?

Starfleet Transporter Crewman: Enterprise... what we got back didn't live long enough... thankfully.

Cut to Kirk looking stunned by the pronouncement.


Sorry, don't see the reason for the deletion other than to shorten the runtime by a couple of seconds. For me, it somewhat diminishes the horrific impact of what we just saw.
This Space for Rent

Re: Pure Star Trek Discussion

2025
Well, when a Red Alert goes off on a ship, you want it to be jarring. I don't want a voice gently reminding me there's maybe something wrong. To be fair, I haven't watched the movie in a couple of years and all I remember about the new version of that is the fact that it's not the old, more memorable one. I could be wrong, but I think in the DC they took out the voice altogether and changed the klaxon to resemble the one from TOS.

Come to think of it, this and the complete dialogue should be in the theatrical cut of the movie in the boxed version, no?
This Space for Rent

Re: Pure Star Trek Discussion

2027
OK I just did some checking, comparing the scene where the alert goes off just before the enterprise is about to be drawn into Vejur. The klaxon is identical in the special longer version and the theatrical version, and both include the voice. In the directors cut, there is no voice and it’s an updated facsimile of the original series alert sound, as you recalled.

However, all the dialogue in the transporter scene is identical between the directors cut and the special longer version.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: Pure Star Trek Discussion

2028
Olorin wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 3:51 pm
However, all the dialogue in the transporter scene is identical between the directors cut and the special longer version.
Meaning what? That the lines i mentioned are there in both, or missing in both?

I'm going to guess missing because I don't recall hearing them ever since the Director's Cut came out. If so, I'm curious now if even the original Theatrical Edition still has them. What I do know is that I didn't imagine that the lines were there at one point.
This Space for Rent

Re: Pure Star Trek Discussion

2030
Valkrist wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 2:18 pm The cut transporter dialogue I've referenced before and you didn't seemed fussed at all by it. The missing lines are:

Kirk: Starfleet, did you get them back?

Starfleet Transporter Crewman: Enterprise... what we got back didn't live long enough... thankfully.

Cut to Kirk looking stunned by the pronouncement.

Sorry, don't see the reason for the deletion other than to shorten the runtime by a couple of seconds. For me, it somewhat diminishes the horrific impact of what we just saw.
I don't remember ever seeing a version with those lines cut, and they are in all three official versions. You must have seen a weird tv edit or something.

The only line cut from that scene in the directors edition was the "oh my God" line from Kirk. The annoying "malfunction, malfunction" computer voice in the background of that scene was also removed in the directors edition. That scene is the same in the new 4K version.
KRDS

Re: Pure Star Trek Discussion

2031
Valkrist wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:15 pm
Olorin wrote: Wed Sep 14, 2022 11:25 am I plan to watch the Special Longer Version tonight. It's been many years since I've seen it.
If that's the version that includes the original "Red Alert" computer voice and original klaxon, as well as the line that was cut from the infamous transporter scene, then I might just have to hunt this down.

I hate it when they make changes that I don't like to a movie that I like. Hate it. Hate it. Hate it.
That's the long tv version cut together by ABC, where they stuck in most of the unused scenes, whether they fit in the film or not. It includes several unfinished effects shots and lots of continuity errors, like Kirk spacesuit changing to a different suit. It's terrible, but fun to watched all the deleted scenes. I suppose this is more like what the original assembly cut looked like, before they started the actual editing. It's very obvious why most of it got the axe by Robert Wise and the editor. A lot of it is campy and just did not work.
KRDS

Re: Pure Star Trek Discussion

2032
Well, isn't this a pleasant surprise! :O

I know I forget the odd thing or two nowadays, but this is one thing that I firmly recall as that scene made quite the impression upon me as a kid in the theatre back in '79. I had the old VHS tape, which contained the full scene, but I know at some point those lines were cut and I never understood why. The only version of the movie I currently own is the first release of the Director's Cut on DVD (the one with the gold case where the rest of the movies are in a silver case), and I don't think the lines are in that release either, but now I feel a need to check. I've never bought any of the subsequent Bluray releases because they always mucked up the releases somehow in including or not including the remaining movies, and I wanted a definitive set, which looks like this is finally it.

At any rate, I'm glad the lines are back for sure. Thanks for checking, guys. :thumbs_up

Oh, here's another question: does that long cut include the V'ger Memory Wall scene? I don't recall ever seeing it on the TV version, only as an actual deleted scene, so I wonder if they threw that one back in. There's also supposedly a longer cut of the Klingon attack on V'ger that shows the third ship being destroyed (every version I've ever seen only shows two) but this may be only a rumour.
This Space for Rent

Re: Pure Star Trek Discussion

2033
I don’t believe the memory wall scene was ever actually filmed. It was cut before filming because it would’ve been fantastically expensive and they didn’t really think it worked story wise anyway. As for the third Klingon ship, I believe I realized last night that the destruction of only two were shown. I would have to check again before I try to answer that definitively.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: Pure Star Trek Discussion

2034
Valkrist wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 6:40 am The only version of the movie I currently own is the first release of the Director's Cut on DVD (the one with the gold case where the rest of the movies are in a silver case), and I don't think the lines are in that release either, but now I feel a need to check.
They are. I have seen it so many times I have it memorized.
Valkrist wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 6:40 am Oh, here's another question: does that long cut include the V'ger Memory Wall scene? I don't recall ever seeing it on the TV version, only as an actual deleted scene, so I wonder if they threw that one back in. There's also supposedly a longer cut of the Klingon attack on V'ger that shows the third ship being destroyed (every version I've ever seen only shows two) but this may be only a rumour.
No, those memory wall scenes are not in any version. Some of it was shot, but the whole sequence was abandoned and never completed. There is some rough test footage out there.

I don't remember seeing the third Klingon ship being destroyed in any version.
KRDS

Re: Pure Star Trek Discussion

2035
Olorin wrote: Thu Sep 15, 2022 8:41 am I don’t believe the memory wall scene was ever actually filmed. It was cut before filming because it would’ve been fantastically expensive and they didn’t really think it worked story wise anyway.
They did film it, but it was never completed. It looked so bad that RW decided to scrap it and do the spacewalk instead. Supposedly a few minutes of the footage was found back in 2009, but I have never seen it turn up anywhere.

Here is a good webpage on the subject.
http://www.marcellorossi.info/Memory/Memory.html
KRDS

Re: Pure Star Trek Discussion

2036
Just had time to pull out the old DVD and watch the transporter scene, and yes, the lines are there. This is so bizarre. I know I'm not going nuts, so there must be a TV edit out there that cut them out to tighten the runtime, because I know I've seen the movie more than once without those lines and it annoys me every time. I don't think I would feel this way about something only imagined. Can confirm that indeed the "My God!" line has been excised as far back as that old DVD release.

As for the memory wall, I've seen live excerpts from it, mainly (can't recall if the scene was for Shatner or Nimoy) suspended from a crane rig and flying past the memory wall on one side. Definitely didn't look complete, but I always regret its omission because I figured it might have revealed a bit more about where V'ger had been beyond Spock's speculative narrative in the final cut.
This Space for Rent

Re: Pure Star Trek Discussion

2037
I just did a quick check and I can confirm for you at least that Kirk's "Oh my God!" line is indeed cut from the DC but is present in the TC and the SLV. So at least your memory is not playing you foul on that score.

Thinking back, I may have seen some stills of the memory wall at one time. I've read a synopsis of it and it sounds like we still got the essence of it through the Spock Walk scene. I don't know that we'd have gotten any more details on V'ger's travels if they had shot the memory wall. Remember, that would have caused the writers to have to imagine and write, and if they were going to do that, then maybe we'd actually have gotten an original adventure instead of a big-budget update of The Changeling from TOS.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: Pure Star Trek Discussion

2038
There's been a persistent theory for years that the machine-planet that took the original damaged Voyager 6 probe and turned it into V'ger was the Borg homeworld. This was picked up by Shatner himself and popularized in his series of Trek novels, beginning with The Return. Though I really enjoyed that series of books before they got silly and convoluted, I never felt that theory made much sense because it didn't seem like something the Borg would do, unless their plan was to turn V'ger into a Trojan Horse against Earth, but in that century, I don't think they had any knowledge of the Federation yet as a possible threat. Also, a "planet of living machines" doesn't fit my mind's eye of what a Borg homeworld would look like as they are as much organic as they are cybernetic. One day, I would still like for them to dig into the actual origins of the Borg. I'd hope for a very good story to solve that mystery, and not the crap we got with the Control AI on Discovery (and I think they stopped short of confirming that was indeed the genesis of the Borg). The faster I can forget the time I wasted watching that show, the better. :huh:
This Space for Rent

Re: Pure Star Trek Discussion

2039
I also never really bought the theory of the Borg being the origins of V'ger, for the reason you mentioned. I'd be much happier with the idea that the union of Decker with Ilia/V'ger was the origin of the Borg! However, I think it has been established that the Borg already existed by the time "Decker got it on," as my high school English teacher phrased it.

On another note, I share your frustration with the cut "Oh my God" line, though maybe not to the extent that you feel it, because I'll probably have forgotten about it by the next time I watch this movie. But yes, it really underscores the shock and horror of what happened. I can't imagine they thought that the maximum 2 seconds they saved by cutting this could improve the flow of the movie. I therefore think they must have thought Kirk was too professional, too in control for such an utterance. But those of us who watched TOS to death growing up know that Kirk was a man of passion and this would definitely not have been out of keeping with his character.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: Pure Star Trek Discussion

2040
That reminds me that I've always wished that there had been some kind of follow-up story as to what happened with the new incarnation of V'ger after the events of TMP. Throughout the various Trek shows over the decades, there's been more than a fair number of callbacks to previous things, especially from the TOS era, but given the special status of TMP as the first ever Star Trek Motion Picture (I mean, it's right in the title!), it's strange that there was never some form of conclusion on next sequence of events for whatever it was that V'ger turned into and went on to do.

Maybe it's because the movie went on to be a critical failure of sorts that the powers-that-be decided not to remind anyone that V'ger ever existed? If you look at Wrath of Khan by comparison, that has certainly generated a host of follow-ups.

I wonder if there was ever a Trek novel that solved that particular mystery. The origin and purpose of the mysterious probe in Voyage Home is one I've always been eternally curious about. Like you said about writers actually having to write a backstory for something rather than just creating a paper-thin villain that drives the plot, I wonder if any thought was ever given to the before and after of such things. Guess we'll never know. :huh:
This Space for Rent

Re: Pure Star Trek Discussion

2041
All this talk about different versions of TMP and what was there, what was cut, remembering things etc just reminds me a giant Star Trek Mandela Effect going on.

I would also like a Borg origin story... was it a race of some sort of humanoids that wanted to enhance with cybernetics then all of a sudden they were taken over by their own inventions, then sought to keep adding to their collective. Done right, it would be awesome! Done wrong it could be super cheesy, preachy, or some sort of inadvertent (or purposeful) commentary on humanities need for technology
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Re: Pure Star Trek Discussion

2042
BladeCollector wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 5:48 am All this talk about different versions of TMP and what was there, what was cut, remembering things etc just reminds me a giant Star Trek Mandela Effect going on.
I think we have all experienced that at some point. I had a friend who insisted that the cut scenes of Luke looking through his binoculars at the space battle in the first Star Wars film, and the scenes with Luke and Biggs, were all in the movie when he saw it in 1977. He just confused in his mind the photos from those scenes in the Star Wars trading cards we collected at the time, and the SW radio plays that we listened to back then, which included all those scenes.

I remember seeing a Tangerine Dream soundtrack LP of the music from Michael Mann film The Keep back in the mid 1980s, as did a few of my friends. Even the author of the book the film was based on thinks he saw it. It took about 20 years of trying to find a copy of it before I had to admit there never was one. I think it was just a mixed up memory of seeing the Laser Disk sleeve in a music store back then. It never existed. Not in this universe anyway :)
KRDS

Re: Pure Star Trek Discussion

2043
I totally get what you guys are talking about. The human brain, perception, and memory are very strange beasts, and far from something that is uniformly consistent.

I mean, you can have 10 different people watch the same event in detail, ask them to describe it as truthfully as they can 10 minutes later, and get 10 different accounts that only share some similarities.

This is a case where I'm going to be stubborn and slam my foot down and therefore avoid any suggestion that I am going bonkers or misremembering this. :crazy2: Those two or three lines were cut from some version of the movie at some point, though evidence seems clear that it had to be a cable or network TV edit at some point. My mistake was in thinking that it was on the physical media release of the movie. Broadcasters are infamous for trimming little bits and seconds of scenes here and there when they think no one's looking so that they can jam an extra commercial in down the line. I'm firmly convinced that's what happened here, and anyone that suggests otherwise will have to go through me... :club: :laugh:
This Space for Rent

Re: Pure Star Trek Discussion

2044
Leave it to the psychologist among us to name-check the Mandela Effect, LOL. But no, I'm sure Val is correct that he saw a TV edit where they cut out more to stuff in more commercials. For TV shows that are made for commercial TV with commercial breaks structured into it, when reshown as repeats and the station cuts out even more to stuff in more commercials, that's called "stepping on" the show.

I experienced the Mandela Effect with Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. I saw this in the theater in 1984 with my cousin when I was visiting relatives in California. Prior to the movie I had been telling her what I was up to, being in grad school at that time in Columbia, Missouri. So in the movie, it turns out that Willie, the female lead, is supposed to be from Missouri. I'd swear that not only was this mentioned more than once, but also that she said she was from Columbia. I remember my cousin and me looking at each other and laughing. But all the times I've seen it on home video, all that's present is the line about going home to Missouri where they don't feed you snakes and rip your heart out.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: Pure Star Trek Discussion

2045
My six movie collection just arrived a little bit ago. Right now I am in the thick of my annual watching of select horror and supernatural themed movies in the run up to Halloween, so I’m not sure how quickly I will watch the Star Trek movies. However, I did do a quick opening and flip through of the box And I had a couple of observations. First, the images included on the covers of the two plastic disc cases inside the outer cardboard box only show five of the main characters! Chekov and Sulu are omittted. I can’t imagine the actors are too pleased about that. Also, the mechanism that holds the spines of the disc holders in place feels a little flimsy, so I don’t think these days holders will stand up to any rough treatment.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: Pure Star Trek Discussion

2046
Olorin wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 3:11 am This will be hard to believe when I say that I was not trying to bait anyone, when I say now that in order to give a proper response to the question posed, it will have to wait till I get off work this evening
(... so when are you going to retire?....)

"Eternity is an awful long time, especially towards the end."

"What you see and what you hear depends a great deal on where you are standing.
It also depends on what sort of person you are.” -- CSL

Re: Pure Star Trek Discussion

2047
Deimos wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:33 am
Olorin wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 3:11 am This will be hard to believe when I say that I was not trying to bait anyone, when I say now that in order to give a proper response to the question posed, it will have to wait till I get off work this evening
(... so when are you going to retire?....)
Plan is 11/30/2025. Sooner if I get too POed.

Also I split out all the horror posts into a new thread in the Media forum.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: Pure Star Trek Discussion

2048
A bit belated, but RIP to Louise Fletcher, who so notably portrayed Kai Winn in DS9. She died Friday and was 88 years old.

Fletcher is most famous for playing Nurse Ratched in "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" but of course to us she'll forever be known as Winn. She was a character that we loved to hate, and she really got a comeuppance in the DS9 series finale!
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: Pure Star Trek Discussion

2049
Olorin wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 11:30 am A bit belated, but RIP to Louise Fletcher, who so notably portrayed Kai Winn in DS9. She died Friday and was 88 years old.

Fletcher is most famous for playing Nurse Ratched in "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" but of course to us she'll forever be known as Winn. She was a character that we loved to hate, and she really got a comeuppance in the DS9 series finale!
Pax Olorin but I beg to differ, vehemently so....Louise Fletcher will always and forever be Nurse Ratched.
She didn't win no Oscar for her DS9 role :lol: , whatever that was. Which leads me to:
What happened to her in the DS9 finale? Did they space her a la Ebony Maw? :O

"Eternity is an awful long time, especially towards the end."

"What you see and what you hear depends a great deal on where you are standing.
It also depends on what sort of person you are.” -- CSL

Re: Pure Star Trek Discussion

2050
Deimos wrote:
Olorin wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 11:30 am A bit belated, but RIP to Louise Fletcher, who so notably portrayed Kai Winn in DS9. She died Friday and was 88 years old.

Fletcher is most famous for playing Nurse Ratched in "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" but of course to us she'll forever be known as Winn. She was a character that we loved to hate, and she really got a comeuppance in the DS9 series finale!
Pax Olorin but I beg to differ, vehemently so....Louise Fletcher will always and forever be Nurse Ratched.
She didn't win no Oscar for her DS9 role :lol: , whatever that was. Which leads me to:
What happened to her in the DS9 finale? Did they space her a la Ebony Maw? :O
She basically was conned by Dukat who was posing as a Bajoran farmer to turn her back on the Prophets and release the Pah-Wraiths. In the end, the Pah-Wraiths chose Dukat not her (obvious to us, not to her) and Dukat killed her as he was possessed by the Pah-Wraiths, at the moment she finally realized that Sisko was the emissary to the Prophets. That's a cliff's notes summary of course. But memory alpha has a really good summary here https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Winn_Adami
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

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