Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

3
Valkrist wrote:Yes, and thank you.

I won't be seeing it for at least a couple of weeks, but I don't expect you guys to wait so I'll just avoid the thread.

My dad took me to see the first movie back in '77, so this year I'm returning the favour. :coolsmile
Very cool to relive it with your dad. How do you say "May the Force be with you" in Portuguese? ;)

So am I really the only one on our forum who's seen it so far?
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

4
OK, here are some preliminary thoughts from me. There aren't any plot spoilers in what I'm going to say, but if you don't want your expectations affected by my views, better skip this post!

First, here is a very good, mostly spoiler-free review that pretty much sums about what I found lacking about the movie. http://www.theverge.com/2015/12/18/1054 ... -nostalgia

For me personally, I could also describe it by saying I can't be 16 again, sitting in a theater seeing the original Star Wars. I would not have said going into this that that was what I was expecting, but I guess on some level some part of me was. I don't mean to suggest that my cool reception of it is due in any large part to an unrealistic expectation of feeling the decades suddenly ripped away. It was mostly that for me, it did not live up to the hype, and I left the theater feeling a little hollowed-out. A major story point toward the end of the movie, which I would call shocking except that it was so clearly telegraphed by the movie's blow-by-blow redo of A New Hope elements made it shocking only in that Abrams had the chutzpah to do it, was particularly rankling. Abrams did something like this only to repeat yet another story beat from the first Star Wars?

Undoubtedly I was in the minority in that view. There were plenty of vocally appreciative fans in the theater. One girl was gushing, "Oh, that was just so GOOD!" as the credits rolled. And as the article I linked mentions, the critics have largely consciously decided to overlook the fact that this is a slick, barely concealed remake of A New Hope and have given it high marks.

When JJ Abrams was announced as the director of this movie, there was a lot of concern from Star Trek fans who didn't appreciate what Abrams had done to Trek. I however said that Abrams had done such a good job turning Star Trek into Star Wars that he'd do a great job of turning Star Wars back into Star Wars. Did he? At some level, he succeeded. Lots of the movie really felt like Star Wars. However, on the whole it felt to me like a collection of parts, some good, some bad, rather than a cohesive whole. If you're going to sell a very derivative story, it's going to have to be slicker than mixing and matching a lot of things we've seen before.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

5
Olorin wrote:OK, here are some preliminary thoughts from me. There aren't any plot spoilers in what I'm going to say, but if you don't want your expectations affected by my views, better skip this post!

First, here is a very good, mostly spoiler-free review that pretty much sums up what I found lacking about the movie. http://www.theverge.com/2015/12/18/1054 ... -nostalgia

.... And as the article I linked mentions, the critics have largely consciously decided to overlook the fact that this is a slick, barely concealed remake of A New Hope and have given it high marks.

... However, on the whole it felt to me like a collection of parts, some good, some bad, rather than a cohesive whole. If you're going to sell a very derivative story, it's going to have to be slicker than mixing and matching a lot of things we've seen before.
You or rather, the article mentions how the critics have given it high marks.
Yeah, the Arizona Republic's movie critic said "it does not disappoint"; from him, that's fairly high praise.

He said this after seeing it on Tuesday, at the screening for media critics, so he couldn't say or write anything else until it was publicly released Friday (or late Thursday).
I'll have to look up his review that appeared Friday, but it's probably going to be gushing.

I'm curious, but in the long run it doesn't matter one way or the other as I have no plans to see it.
(This coming from someone who saw [in the theatre] the first one about 9 times, the second one about 12 times, and the third one...once. The ewoks killed it for me in the third one. Had there been no ewoks saving the day I would have seen it multiple times. And I have seen none of the prequels.)

"Eternity is an awful long time, especially towards the end."

"What you see and what you hear depends a great deal on where you are standing.
It also depends on what sort of person you are.” -- CSL

Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

6
Well I certainly rolled me eyes at the ewoks but they didn't kill it for me. They were just the natural offspring of the merchandizing phenomenon that Star Wars had birthed.

The prequels, while not necessarily killing Star Wars for me, more or less confirmed what some part of me already knew, that being wowed by Star Wars was part of my past.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

9
I walked out with a huge grin on my face after seeing it.

I'm so happy with the story and characters. There's so many teases for what's to come. Kylo and Rey are both great characters and obviously a huge improvement over the characters in the prequels.

The rest of the cast was great too. I loved the hints at the Knights of Ren, hopefully we'll see them more in 8 and 9. Snoke was pretty creepy too.

Can't wait to see it again :D
"All those moments will be lost, in time... like tears, in the rain..."

Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

13
Oops, sorry!

Yes, I did see it just after New Year's. Before I get into the movie itself, I just wanted to say that watching my dad experiencing his first 3D movie was nothing short of hilarious. He did enjoy it, btw.

As for myself, I think I was about 65% satisfied with it. The biggest detriment of course, and the most obvious and glaring flaw that anyone who has reviewed this movie has pointed out, is that it is a very tired retread of A New Hope. Once you figure out that you are essentially watching that older movie (which happened quite early on for me,) the whole thing became disappointingly predictable. Having said that, it was still amazing to find myself back in that universe again, and not have the shadow of yet another bad Lucas prequel hanging over me. What helped this tremendously and allows me to view this movie in more of a positive light than negative is that I liked the new characters a lot. Being someone who is very inquisitive and analytical of things was somewhat of a detriment however, because although I understand too much exposition can be very bad for the pace of a movie, I was irritated at the sheer amount of things we were supposed to just accept at face value and with zero explanation. I'm not talking about annoying minor plot holes like how Maz got a hold of Luke's lightsabre, which is something that we may yet hear about in the sequels, but obviously important things like who and what exactly the New Order is and stands for (they are definitely more than a mere remnant of the Empire,) how did the Resistance evolve from the Rebel Alliance, what is the difference and relationship between them and the Republic? Kind of important contextual background information that we are sorely missing. It really, really bothered me that the writers could not have used a couple of simple lines of dialogue to shed some light on these kind of things.

Anyhow, my one single, biggest regret walking out of that movie theatre? The fact that I lost my only chance to see two of my childhood heroes interacting on screen again in the setting that I remember with such fondness: Luke Skywalker and Han Solo. That, for me, was a true tragedy.
This Space for Rent

Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

14
I forgot to come back this thread as well, but my sentiments basically echo what Val said. There was a hilarious meme out there that had the plot of "A New Hope" and someone took red ink, and scratched out places and characters names and put in the new ones from "The Force Awakens" and the story flowed perfectly :)
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

15
Hi guys, I was wondering if any of you from the US who shop at Target could help me out?

Target has an exclusive version of The Force Awakens that features some extra content that looks at the costumes and weapons - according to the Star Wars site. I tried to pre-order it from Target, as they do ship to the UK however The Force Awakens is excluded from shipments to the UK. As far as I'm aware, we're not getting this version in the UK which is annoying.

So I was wondering if someone would be able to help me get hold of it? I'm willing to pay for the blu-ray up front as I don't know what Target's pre-order policy is (whether they take payment up front or wait until they have it), and also for the delivery from you to me. Before I commit to it though I was wondering if anyone would be able to give me a rough estimate on how much it would cost for delivery from the US to the UK? I can't imagine it being too high as it's just a small package.

Here is the version that I'm after:
http://www.target.com/p/star-wars-the-f ... ce+awakens

Any help would be greatly appreciated :)
"All those moments will be lost, in time... like tears, in the rain..."

Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

16
Valkrist wrote:I'm not talking about annoying minor plot holes like how Maz got a hold of Luke's lightsabre, which is something that we may yet hear about in the sequels, but obviously important things like who and what exactly the New Order is and stands for (they are definitely more than a mere remnant of the Empire,) how did the Resistance evolve from the Rebel Alliance, what is the difference and relationship between them and the Republic? Kind of important contextual background information that we are sorely missing. It really, really bothered me that the writers could not have used a couple of simple lines of dialogue to shed some light on these kind of things.

Anyhow, my one single, biggest regret walking out of that movie theatre? The fact that I lost my only chance to see two of my childhood heroes interacting on screen again in the setting that I remember with such fondness: Luke Skywalker and Han Solo. That, for me, was a true tragedy.
The First Order, from what I understand, are basically the remnants of the old Empire. General Hux's father was an in charge of Stormtrooper training during Palpatine's rule and created the training regimes that Stormtroopers are put through. Mon Mothma and the Rebel Alliance reformed the galactic republic, and so the need for the Rebellion was over. However, Leia felt concerned. I'm not entirely sure what happened, but there are treaties in place that allow the existence of The First Order, however they're not allowed to produce space crafts or weapons. So TIE fighters, Hux's Star Destroyer named "The Finaliser" and certainly Starkiller base are in violation of this treaty. Snoke controls The First Order from afar, but Hux and Kylo lead - much like Tarkin and Vader.

Through the treaty, the Republic isn't allowed to support the Resistance which Leia has take over. The Resistance is tiny in comparison to the Rebel alliance, however, I believe they do get some Republic support, but this remains off-record. The woman who we see when Hosnian Prime - the planet and system that Hux destroys - is destroyed is an agent from the Resistance. In the original edit of the movie, she was more prominent and from what I understand there was more political aspect of the story. I would have enjoyed seeing these scenes, but I'm pretty sure the united hatred of politics in the prequel trilogy urged JJ to cut those scenes. Starkiller base felt far more terrifying than the Death Star which is silly I know because the Death Star would be terrifying anyway. But they justified it as a threat by showing us the destruction of the planets and the reactions of people there, and those who saw it through the rip in hyperspace.

For me, the retread of A New Hope wasn't such a bad thing. It felt similar to how An Unexpected Journey was similar to Fellowship of The Ring in some ways. The characters were what made it stand out. Rey and Finn are great leads, Kylo is such an interesting villain too. Definitely the most complex villain in a Star Wars movie to date. Hux was the surprise of the movie for me. Domhnall really nailed it as Hux. He was pretty frightening. His speech on Starkiller base is one of my favourite scenes in the movie. The only disappointments for me were that it wasn't longer, and Phasma was like Boba Fett in the ways I didn't want her to be. Has minimal screen time and makes no impact on the story. Here's hoping she's fleshed out more in Episode 8. Looking forward to seeing more of Hux, Kylo and Snoke too.

As for Han Solo... I'm glad he had an actual story and a full character arc. I'm glad he went out on a high, his interaction with Kylo was beautiful and both actors were terrific in their scenes together. Although it is sad to realise that the dynamic between those two will never be fully explored now.
"All those moments will be lost, in time... like tears, in the rain..."

Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

17
Hey Lindir, thanks for shedding light on some of this stuff. Isn't it great to have the answers? I would say yes, but you have to consider that you probably know what you do from reading all the companion material that Disney is churning out for these sequels. None of it is coming from the movies themselves, which is all that most fans will ever experience. I shouldn't be forced to buy ten novels, six magazines, and five movie guides (all made up numbers, by the way, but you get the idea,) to figure out any of this stuff. I don't need an in-depth revelation about Hux's family tree, but a glimmer or two of how he came to power, or how the Resistance relates to the Republic would seem (to me at least,) like fairly important things to help one understand the dynamics of what is happening.

You do make a very good point about the general fan hatred for how deep they got into politics in the prequels, and how very boring and bland all that quickly became. However, I also feel that this new movie(s?) gave us the complete opposite in terms of exposition. They basically turned around and ran the other way at hyperspeed! Sure this is about finding Luke and the drama surrounding Han, Leia, and Ben, but you need a background context against which to place all that is going on. Even the original trilogy gave us some very good glimpses into the history of the Empire and the Alliance. As presented, it feels like a stale retread of the balance of power in the previous movies precisely because no effort was made to reveal to us how different, however subtly, things might be now. All these years later, we are completely in the dark and with square one still beneath our feet.
This Space for Rent

Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

18
I agree, Val. This information here comes from The Visual Dictionary and a few online summaries of other books.

I feel like JJ and Kasden could have presented the political aspects of the story in a way that was enjoyable and fulfilling. But they played it safe. I still love the movie, don't get me wrong, but at the same time I'd like to have seen something more. I don't think politics is a no go area in movies or TV, it just has to be done right. People love the politics in GOT. I doubt Star Wars would ever enter that realm of complexity though.

Hux from what I understand murdered his own father, creating a sort of power vacuum where he stepped in and became General. I'm sure this was revealed by Domnhall or some one who worked on the movie. I'd like to see that explored. It's interesting now that Hux and Kylo are both patricides. I'm still curious as to how Snoke came into it all though, because Leia and Han seemed to know Snoke.

I have a feeling that Rian Johnson will flesh the story out a lot more for Episode 8. Kasden said he saw the script and said it was weird and that Johnson was gonna take Star Wars to new territory. I can imagine him filling in a lot of details about the backstory. Hopefully anyway :P
"All those moments will be lost, in time... like tears, in the rain..."

Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

19
I thought I made a post in this thread, but I guess I never hit submit :(

I was going to say that I actually enjoyed the political parts of the prequel trilogy and it is one of the parts that I most like about Star Trek as well. I always thought a West Wing type show set in the Star Trek universe would be fun, for me at least.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens

20
I also thought the political machinations aspect of the prequel trilogy was the best part of it. Years before the prequels came out, Lucas predicted people wouldn't like them as well as the OT because it was more political intrigue and less action. He probably believes now that that was the reason the prequels are regarded as they are, instead of his inability to write dialog or get good performances out of most actors.

As for The Force Awakens, I didn't feel it lacked for backstory on Hux, but 30 seconds of exposition on the Republic, the Resistance, and the First Order would have made the movie a lot better IMHO. It would still have been completely derivative and hollow, IMHO, but more enjoyable to me.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."
Post Reply

Return to “Star Trek & Star Wars”

cron