Man! The design of that axe is fantastic! Thanks Kit.

Idril wrote:Man! The design of that axe is fantastic! Thanks Kit.

I know. It would be amazing to have that thing on the wall. Too bad somewhere along the line PJ decided to turn Middle-earth dwarves into World of Warcraft cartoon characters with oversized weapons and he went with the hammer, a cute pig instead of a nasty boar, and CGI instead of Billy Connolly.

Kit, what do you think of the new Bilbo pipe? Looks like the length is correct this time. Shame you spent time and effort modifying the Noble one already. Will you be getting this one?

@Deimos: see N2's response for my guess on the MT price, although with it being an open edition, that will probably knock about $100 off.

I never did anything with the Bilbo pipe stem. Got side tracked and never finished it. The new Weta pipe is dead on accurate, and it does look like they actually made a casting from a prop for once. I can see that not only are the shapes correct, but even the wood grain matches. Already ordered one.

I don't see anything WOW'ish at all with Dain or the Dwarves, and his war hammer looks about the right size it needed to be to me. If you think that looks big, you should have seen the axe. It was way oversized, on the WOW scale, but I still would have preferred they use that design. I was not crazy about the prop blades though. It was not steel. It looked like marbled red stone, not a material from the real world or Middle-earth that would hold up when used against armor. I had the same issue with Dwalin's regal axe. It had green jade blades!

When (or if) they release some of the original footage of Billy on the EE extras disks, I think people will understand why they did not want to use the stuff they filmed. It just did not work. I can tell that from the on-set photos I have. His face looked too small and the nose and brow they gave him were huge. There was more tattooing on his face too, but it did not really add anything. Billy's eyes and nose are very recognizable, but all that came across in the makeup was a big nose and two beady little eyes that look too close together. What they did with his face and body shape in BOFA was a big improvement IMO, and retained more of Billy's face. There are a lot more scenes they will have to replace of him in the EE.

Valkrist wrote:....@Deimos: see N2's response for my guess on the MT price, although with it being an open edition, that will probably knock about $100 off.

Val, I think you were the only member (and maybe N2?) to get the Weta Barad-dur.
How soon after the showing at SDCC until it went up for pre-order on the Weta site?

I haven't decided for certain if I'm going to get Minas Tirith , but I don't want to miss the pre-order window if I decide to go for it.

Deimos wrote:

Valkrist wrote:....@Deimos: see N2's response for my guess on the MT price, although with it being an open edition, that will probably knock about $100 off.

Val, I think you were the only member (and maybe N2?) to get the Weta Barad-dur.
How soon after the showing at SDCC until it went up for pre-order on the Weta site?

I haven't decided for certain if I'm going to get Minas Tirith , but I don't want to miss the pre-order window if I decide to go for it.

I never got Barad-dur, too spendy for me. On a s ide note I herd they were going to release another 250 as there must have been some sort of mistake and they only sold 750 of the 1000 piece run.

As for Minas Tirith, you won't have to worry about the pre-order (unless you want the first batch) as it is an open edition and won't sell out. Good for price, but horrible on the resell if you ever have too.

@Kit: I'll concede the point on Dain's hammer, as it is indeed proportionate to Dain himself, and I do like the design. However, the Tolkien nitpicker in me knows the dwarves are never mentioned using hammers, and that axe is hard to top. I do feel Thrain's and Dwalin's hammers are oversized though. They qualify more as mauls than warhammers. The concept of stone blades is intriguing, but yes, no basis on Middle-earth or practicality. I also read that Billy was extremely ill and was messing up his lines a lot. I suppose PJ did the only thing he could, but I can't help but feel sad that the performance of a good actor was wasted and unusable.

On the Bilbo pipe, I though you had stained yours and changed the cord wrapping colour as well, though not the length itself, as you mentioned. I'm getting one for sure.

@Deimos and N2: yeah, I guess I was the only one crazy enough to pick up Barad-dur, but I do love that piece. I'm guessing Deimos is mentioning preordering in order to take advantage of any discounts for early orders, but with it being an open edition, I don't think they will go that route. As for only selling 750 out of 1000, I thought only UC made that kind of screwup.

I have BD too!

I'm suspicious it isn't a screw-up on the issue. I think the new sales manager decided to not keep making some items and just marked them as sold out. I did think it strange it went quietly sold out. No warning of low stock or any word at all. I'm surprised they did this with BD but I know they have done it with the bronze John Howe items. I guess they did the same with some non-numbered items too (which is normal and expected at some point).

I guess they decided since there may be a market for some people to get the pair, they would make the last run of BD. Good for the new collectors......

Unless it is a tiny run of 150-300 pieces, manufacturers rarely make entire limited edition runs all at once, and Weta certainly does not. Too costly for inventory management, especially if the product does not sell. The companies I work with have always split them them into multiple manufacturing runs. That's typical in any industry. If sales of a particular product slow to a crawl before they complete the run, they can delay, or simply not make the balance. Just because something is called a "limited edition" does not mean they made that many. People would be surprised at how often this happens.

Valkrist wrote:I also read that Billy was extremely ill and was messing up his lines a lot. I suppose PJ did the only thing he could, but I can't help but feel sad that the performance of a good actor was wasted and unusable.)

I think that was just something someone on a forum made up and people kept repeating it. Nothing like that happened in what I was told. They simply did not think the performance and movement came through the heavy makeup and costume very well.

Valkrist wrote:On the Bilbo pipe, I though you had stained yours and changed the cord wrapping colour as well, though not the length itself, as you mentioned. I'm getting one for sure.

I did all that, but never got around to replacing the stem. It's sitting in a corner with about a dozen other unfinished projects. Now there is a Smaug to repaint in front of it

Is anyone else jumping at Minas Tirith in a half hour from now?

Update....

That was painful.

Too rich for my blood! The prices for this stuff is getting outrageous. I'm considering the Urak-hai statue, but have herd it will be over $300 . I'm almost thinking my statue collecting days are over and just stick to prop replicas.

I have only ever purchased three polystone pieces new from Weta: Rivendell, Thorin, and now Minas Tirith. The sticker shock on Minas Tirith was enough for me to lick my wounds and crawl back to eBay for buying on the used market. This stuff is just too expensive, and if anything I feel bad for participating in the enabling of Weta to charge this much for these; not like my one purchase (or lack thereof) would have made a difference, but it's a matter of principle I guess. It just seemed like a really integral part to a Middle-Earth collection, and knowing how much I have grown and continue to love Rivendell, I just decided to treat myself.

It also helps that I'm about to make several hundred dollars teaching at high school band camps...

I missed it, but I'm not upset because I'm not about to jump on this sculpt any time soon, if ever. How much was the discount, just out of curiosity? I'm going to guess $50, if it follows the pattern of recent similar offerings.

I'm with N2 on this. I love my statues but I do have more and more moments when I wish I had never bought the first one. While the prices of replicas have remained relatively stable and affordable after all these years, the statues have gone up anywhere from 100%-200% and that's just ridiculous. I do grasp the concept of inflation, but Weta prices have moved these collectibles into the realm of very expensive luxury items. Not sure how much longer I can keep up, or whether I want to.

I feel much the same as you Val. I hadn't sold any of my collection up till 18 months ago when I decided to keep only around 10 statues (environments excluded). They just weren't doing it for me anymore. I also thought I would sell some swords, but gladly, I couldn't part with them.

I did buy MT as I have the complete environment collection. It does seem a lot of $$$. I hope I love it. It is my only big poly purchase since Rivendell so at least I feel in control.

Man that is one awesome piece. I wish they would accept PayPal or something, if they did, I would be 85% on board with the price. Since Paypal usually gives the, spend more than X dollars you have 6-12 months to pay with no interest, I could spend 50-75$ a month on it, but $100 now and the rest due when it ships, and you never know when that may be... its a risk on the finances.

Valkrist wrote:I missed it, but I'm not upset because I'm not about to jump on this sculpt any time soon, if ever. How much was the discount, just out of curiosity? I'm going to guess $50, if it follows the pattern of recent similar offerings.

Yes it was $50 and the offers were claimed in about the first 15 minutes or so.

I used to say I'd buy all the environments, but when Barad Dur came out, the price tag changed all that.
The Minas Tirith is indeed beautiful, but getting the DM one for under $100 back in the day makes me even happier with it now.

I only own one environment (the Golden Hall) and have never truly been tempted by any of the others . . . but Minas Tirith is gorgeous. Despite the extremely high price, I think I may purchase it, but at some point way down the road. At least it's an OE.

Unlike the DM Minas Tirith, the Weta one doesn't have the trebuchets (catapults) on the lowest wall.
Nor (from what othes have said over at FoU) does the Weta MT have the White Tree.
The more I look at the two, the more convinced I am that the DM Minas Tirith can well hold its own against the Weta version.
Didn't get mine for $100 (alas!) but $250 is still a deal compared to $500

I was never able to get the DM down to oz. I am hoping someone will be comparison pics once MT ships. I agree though that there doesn't seems to be a great deal of difference between the two. In reality, they are probably priced similarly, since the DM one came out about a decade ago.

Btw - Leonard piped in and said the white tree is in the Weta one. It is only 3mm high as it is in scale. No trebuchet so though.

Did anyone order Dain today?

Was there an early bird deal?

I did not order, but I did hear there was an early bird. Went fast though.

Yes, first 100, although it seems they forgot to email and let people know.

This is becoming annoying. Unless you have no life and spend the day glued to the FoU forum or Weta's website, if you blink, you'll miss it. Sounds like they are not even doing a 24 hour deal thing but more like the first few orders in the door and then that's it?

Edit: and judging by what Kit said, even if you are subscribed to the newsletter you can still get screwed!

It was announced only on Facebook yesterday. Seems something slipped.

I believe the first 110 (they upped it due to the stuff up) were sold in 16 minutes.

Did you notice they also dropped the ES to 800? (Was 1500)

Due to less than expected pre-orders on the last few items, I presume, unless the original edition number was a screw up.

A few folks are uptight about this event (ES change at the last minute and no formal announcement on the discount) and I can certainly sympathize with them. Also, $449?!? Yikes. Even with $50 off that's still too much. I really need to find a new hobby.

Yeah I saw the tiny ES. Didn't even bother looking at the price, though I love the statue. I knew it was going to be way too much. Sounds like I was right.

Buckeye wrote:I only own one environment (the Golden Hall) and have never truly been tempted by any of the others . . . but Minas Tirith is gorgeous. Despite the extremely high price, I think I may purchase it, but at some point way down the road. At least it's an OE.

I hear ya. I used to collect the environments only from Weta. I had Golden Hall, Amon Hen, Moria, and Helm's Deep. I preordered the Prancing Pony and Bag End when they came out and that was it.
I couldn't handle the prices on the upcoming environments (Rivendell was amazing but too spendy). Then Orthanc, The Argonath, etc. I couldn't keep up at all. I ended up selling all but Bag End (collector's ed).
Looking back, I wish I'd have atleast kept Weathertop and the Golden Hall.

Two Black Arrow replicas from Weta showed up today. They look beautiful, but the shaft is cracked where the arrowhead and shaft meet. Same issues as on the staffs. Grrr....

If I get some time I'll finish unpacking one and shoot pix before sending them back.

GROND. Weta have displayed a proto at NYCC. It is big - sits on the Rivendell base!

Also, check out the Smaug Bust - can be wall mounted if you'd prefer. An OE too!

And finally - the long asked for prologue Elf from lotr.

Amazing pieces!

The Smaug bust is an easy pass as I don't collect that format. I will probably pass on Grond as well as it looks set to be a credit-card buster and was never high on my list of environments to begin with. Yazneg the warg-rider is also an easy pass for me. That leaves the Prologue Elf, which I think I most definitely have to get. I wasn't going to get the Uruk-hai from SDCC but now I'm thinking these two pieces would look fabulous next to each other. Hmmmm...

The Prologue Elf is a must have for me. Grond is very tempting.

Nasnandos wrote:The Prologue Elf is a must have for me. Grond is very tempting.

For me as well. If I didn't already have the huge Smaug staue I would be tempted on the bust. I have a feeling Grond will cost a small fortune, somewhere in price range of Barad-dur and Minas Tirith.

Grond is indeed tempting, but at the cost and size, it's just become downright prohibitive. Aside from possibly an Eomer on Firefoot (if and when that happens,) Dain and/or Minas Tirith will be my last large statues.

I guess Grond will be in the same price bracket as MT. It might be cheaper due to its ease of painting. Either way, it is a must have for me. Personally, I think it is the coolest in a long time. The fact that it is hanging on chains and swings. Man! I love it.

I have been waiting for the Smaug bust for what seems ages. I saw a climpse of it in January. I always thought that bust line like Weta did from the King Kong movie should be in the ME lineup. I'm very pleased with the result and have already ordered it. I live in hope that this can become the Beast Busts of ME line.

Finally, the prologue Elf - wanted this one for about 14 years. Very happy it finally made it.

OMG that axe indeed is a stunning piece for any wall.

Here is a comparison of the Weta Black Arrow polyresin replica and the wood and metal Black Arrow replica from United. Weta wins this one easily on looks, but be warned, they have cracked shaft issues like the staffs. After getting three in a row, I gave up on replacements. I think they all have cracks. The one in the photo only has a hairline crack, but I'm sure that will widen over time like the cracks in my Weta staffs have.

I weathered the United prototype to match the AUJ prologue arrow, but the production version they made is very clean and new looking. The Weta version closely matches the old and worn one seen in BOFA, and is far better looking IMO. That's the one I will be displaying, using the display from the United version The feather height looks much shorter on the Weta version, but that is accurate to the BOFA prop. The AUJ props United is modeled after were different.

Arrowheads - Weta is the upper one.



Shafts / feathers - Weta one is the more detailed one with the shorter feathers.

Thanks Kit. I was hoping someone would do a side by side comparison. I'll have to check my weta one for cracks. I haven't noticed any yet.

It is the fletching on the UC one I just dislike - a lot. It is the reason I went with the Weta one. The weta fletching looks great and just like I imagine old, dusty fletching would be like after 50 years or so.

I hate the fletching. I weathered the feathers down on the proto, something in between the clean AUJ look below, and the frayed BOFA look. None of that was done in production though, at least not on the one that I have.

Looks like leather fringe to me.

As I am not getting this replica from either company, I feel relieved not having to deal with any issues, but I have to agree that the Weta one looks 100% better than UC's, which looks like it just came off the assembly line in Dale 2 hours ago. Still, I find it baffling that a reputable company like Weta continues to not address the manufacturing process that is consistently putting out flawed products. This resin shaft cracking issue is very old now and still it continues to rear its ugly head. I'm no business expert and I don't know what the bottom line is on these things, but it has to be costing them a fair bit of money to constantly process returns and replace item after item like this. Are these things so cheaply made that that you can sell one, replace it three times, and *still* turn a profit on it? Kit, any thoughts on this as an insider in the replica business?

*Random observation* - The Weta arrow looks shorter than UC's by a nose. Which is the correct length, or was this a case of different props, different lengths?

Valkrist wrote:I'm no business expert and I don't know what the bottom line is on these things, but it has to be costing them a fair bit of money to constantly process returns and replace item after item like this. Are these things so cheaply made that that you can sell one, replace it three times, and *still* turn a profit on it? Kit, any thoughts on this as an insider in the replica business?

I know what it cost to make these, and it is definitely not cheap considering the sell price and royalty that needs to be paid. Most people will actually not go through the hassle of repacking something for a return if they think the flaw is minor, especially with limited or rare items. From what I have seen in 25+ years of working with companies, there is typically only a small percentage of returns that have to be processed, even with major defects. Many companies will build that into their costing, but some companies operate right on the edge or profit and take big losses on these large items anyway because of the high cost to ship a replacement.

That said, even though Weta always says they will issue a call tag for the damaged items to be returned, I don't think they have ever done this for any of the damaged items they have sent me. In that regard, it is a complete loss, but they can't repair these anyway. It would just cost them more to ship them somewhere else for disposal, or to pay someone to fill the cracks, repaint, and sell again as a refurbished second rate product, which I have never heard of them doing.

Valkrist wrote:*Random observation* - The Weta arrow looks shorter than UC's by a nose. Which is the correct length, or was this a case of different props, different lengths?

I don't know if the Weta BOFA arrow dimensions are correct or not. It's been a few years now, but I don't think I was ever given any info or photos on that version. When I started work on this all we had was the AUJ version.

BladeCollector wrote:Looks like leather fringe to me.

The prop fletching is much larger than leather fringe. It actually has fine feather veins in it. The material is like a soft urethane or pvc.

The Weta Art of War book is out today, so you all can finally see some of the prop photos that I have been looking at for several years now. I just skimmed through it. Another excellent reference book. It is more of a prop book than an art book, although there is lots of concept art too.

Lots of good photos of all the BOFA armor, weapons, and props, as well as the rings and jewelry. The palantir is in there, and a really good photo of the phial of Galadriel. There are good photos of all the elven weapons and armor, including the double-bladed polearm and the unused Legolas sword prop. Thranduil's scabbard/frog is shown too. Lot's unused weapons, including a beautiful axe designed for Beorn.

It constantly baffles me how much money is wasted in these movies with unused stuff. It's great that a lot of people are employed and paid for this work, but it is ultimately wasted as such an incredibly high percentage of it remains unseen. I had no idea this was how it worked until I joined this forum and learned from Kit that this happens.

Why and how does this happen? Do concept artists and the director just hand the prop department a ton of sketches and ideas and say "here, make all these things, we'll decide what to use later" ? Wouldn't it be more cost efficient to make some decisions beforehand? I know movie productions can be very organic and change all the time but this still strikes me as awfully wasteful.

Peter Jackson's productions are always very organic, and a lot of things were built just to outfit characters, without knowing if they would need them, but there were ready if needed. With the limited pre production time PJ had before they were required to start shooting movie 1, he had no choice but to roll with some things he was not completely happy with. With a massive production like this there were bound to be things that never get used because of story or editing changes anyway. Then there are issues that don't cop up until the props are built and tested, as was the case with the double-bladed polearm for the BOFA battle scenes and Dain's axe and costume. There were lots of unused weapons and props made for LOTR too.

Legolas was supposed to use his own sword, but they decided just before shooting that it would be better to have him take Orcrist instead, an idea I really liked. I don't know exactly where Beorn was to have used that war axe, but at some point there was an idea that he was to be involved in some combat in his 'man' form either in Dol Guldur or BOFA. I can't imagine how that would have worked, but that may be why that idea was dropped. The palantir scene was apparently never completed because they came up with a different idea to convey that element of the story (Smaug joining up with Sauron).

Would UC ever consider making Legolas' sword?

Probably not before making some of the other weapons that were in the movies

That Legolas sword is a beautiful thing. It is on display at Weta. I so wish it was available.

Thanks for your insights as always, Kit.

I have a weird personal hangup regarding collecting replicas of things that were discarded along the way and ultimately not used. It's as if since they don't appear onscreen, they are not part of the visual continuity or setting 'reality.' The sword of Sauron from LOTR falls into that category and I guess I would feel the same way about this Legolas sword. PJ decided such a sword essentially was not needed, therefore under what context are we collecting it? It does not exist, in a sense, because it was an unused concept, much like Smaug having only four limbs instead of six, which was how he was originally designed. It's the final product that I accept as definitive and canon.

I know, it's strange. Also, I am willing and ready to buy the Mirkwood polearm and that ultimately did not appear in the movies either, though I believe UC and Kit were initially led to believe it was in the first cut of TDOS or some such?