Re: Sting FINE ART LIMITED EDITION Released!

3
Interesting: Raised grip vine detail on the e xp ensive one and inlaid vine detail on the other one.

Hmmm..."Peter also makes a Movie Prop Version of the sword using the techniques of 2001, which has been finished using a vinyl transfer for the vine on the grip."

Sure looks like its inlaid into the wood.

Tim
Last edited by timdp on Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Sting FINE ART LIMITED EDITION Released!

5
[QUOTE=Conan;81831]Well here it is folks Sting Master Swordsmith edition has now been released

There are two versions..
1. Fine Art limited (##/25) Silver wrapped handle
2. Movie version

Which will you guys be getting?! :D

Neither...no offense to anyone who is considering it or has ordered it (either version) but it is wrong, wrong , wrong.
I wouldn't even spend $1000 on it (except for re-enactment where I would be wearing it /wielding it).

Sting is a dagger, a dagger . No dagger is 27 inches long.
Yes, I know P Lyon said he is making the movie version sword, but that doesn't justify making a sword that is disproportional to all the other swords used in the movie.

From the pics it looks beautifully made and is probably incredibly light and well balanced, but next to the other MSSC swords it looks jarring, size -wise.
He could have easily made it 22 inches long.

Just my opinion (but strongly held in this matter).
Last edited by Deimos on Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

"Eternity is an awful long time, especially towards the end."

"What you see and what you hear depends a great deal on where you are standing.
It also depends on what sort of person you are.” -- CSL

Re: Sting FINE ART LIMITED EDITION Released!

7
I actually was thinking about this very same topic.. i believe it is actor scale in that if you hold it, it would be as if you were a hobbit. I agree that Lyon should have made it realistic scale (dagger) but as we all know, this is for the movie fans more than anything.

I still think it is a beautiful sword and, if you think about it, could pass for a very long dagger. Remember that elves were supposed to be very tall, so maybe this would pass for a long dagger in the hands of an elf.

Re: Sting FINE ART LIMITED EDITION Released!

8
Glad you know what I mean, Conan. I am not ordering it, as I am neither insane or rich, but if I had the disposable income to invest in the MSSC line, I would not get this sword for that reason alone.

I disagree that this is being made for movie fans though, as on average they do not tend to be the demographic that would spend this kind of money on a collectible of this nature. This kind of e xp ense is the purview of the serious collector, one who is very discerning of accuracy and lore. As such, I think Peter Lyon made a mistake in choosing to make this sword the incorrect scale for Middle-earth. I do agree that Elves are taller, but if the movie establishes that Sting is of a certain length in the hands of a human, then Lyon should have stuck with that. I really find this to be an odd choice on his part. This is exactly what Noble Collection did with their Sting. :huh:
This Space for Rent

Re: Sting FINE ART LIMITED EDITION Released!

9
Had not noticed the length. It is very odd that they made it to movie scale like the Noble Collection Sting (also 27") instead to the "real world" 22" length. Would definitely put me off purchasing one. Very glad I have an MC Sting...

If anyone wants a 27" version of Sting, get the Noble Collection version.. :evil:

Tim


[quote=""Deimos""]

Neither...no offense to anyone who is considering it or has ordered it (either version) but it is wrong, wrong , wrong.
I wouldn't even spend $1000 on it (except for re-enactment where I would be wearing it /wielding it).

Sting is a a dagger, a dagger . No dagger is 27 inches long.
Yes, I know P Lyon said he is making the movie version sword, but that doesn't justify making a sword that is disproportional to all the other swords used in the movie.

[/quote]

Re: Sting FINE ART LIMITED EDITION Released!

10
[quote=""Valkrist""]I hate to bring up this old topic as it tends to confuse the crap out of most people, but I'm sure Deimos will know exactly what I'm talking about:

Are you saying this Sting is being made to actor-scale and not Hobbit-scale? Actor-scale is innacurate. Hobbit-scale is accurate.[/quote]

From the description of the Weta site, they are both 27 inches long, i.e., actor size "daggers" , not hobbit size ones.

Meaning, they are inaccurately sized when placed next to Anduril and Glamdring (and also the Ranger sword if we are talking strictly MSSC)

"Eternity is an awful long time, especially towards the end."

"What you see and what you hear depends a great deal on where you are standing.
It also depends on what sort of person you are.” -- CSL

Re: Sting FINE ART LIMITED EDITION Released!

12
Now we speaking about Sting made by Noble Collection,i love to get my hands on a sting from NC but there is one big problem,meaning i wanted registreted on the site but i can't cause it seems only for people in the USA and people from Canada,it's not fair that other people like me from overseas have no right to buy something from NC itself.
Does anyone of you can think of a solution for me,many thanks for the help.

Re: Sting FINE ART LIMITED EDITION Released!

14
[quote=""Dark Shadow""]Now we speaking about Sting made by Noble Collection,i love to get my hands on a sting from NC but there is one big problem,meaning i wanted registreted on the site but i can't cause it seems only for people in the USA and people from Canada,it's not fair that other people like me from overseas have no right to buy something from NC itself.
Does anyone of you can think of a solution for me,many thanks for the help.[/quote]

I want to ask that you please stay on topic, and also probably check ebay.

Re: Sting FINE ART LIMITED EDITION Released!

16
[quote=""Conan""]hold on. now i am confused. I assumed the scale was the same as the MC united Cutlery sting? am i wrong?[/quote]

Ummm...Yes. But don't feel too bad about it. We went 'round and 'round with this a while back.

All United Cutlery versions of Sting -- Museum Collection [MC], and unlimited version -- are 22 inches, scaled to a hobbit that is 36-42" tall.
And therefore are correctly proportioned to Anduril, Glamdring and Strider's sword in all their UC and MSSC versions.

Peter Lyon's MSSC Sting and the Noble Collection [NC] Sting are 27" and scaled to actors who are 66" tall, give or take an inch, and so look wrongly proportioned when hanging next to any of the other UC or MSSC swords (I can't speak for any other NC swords).
Last edited by Deimos on Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:26 am, edited 3 times in total.

"Eternity is an awful long time, especially towards the end."

"What you see and what you hear depends a great deal on where you are standing.
It also depends on what sort of person you are.” -- CSL

Re: Sting FINE ART LIMITED EDITION Released!

17
I guess I'm surprised none of you knew this. Seems to me it was mentioned some where (probably ed 209) that the MSSC Sting was the actor size.
It's not news to me.

Anyway, like the rest of you, I'd rather buy half of all UC replicas than spend this much on one item.
"and I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with skill, ability and knowledge in all kinds of crafts- to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver and bronze, to cut stones, to work in wood, and engage in all kinds of craftsmanship"

Re: Sting FINE ART LIMITED EDITION Released!

19
Was discussed in this thread:
http://www.ucforums.com/showthread.php?t=5046

Completely forgot about having posted in the thread...

Tim


[quote=""Thranduil""]I guess I'm surprised none of you knew this. Seems to me it was mentioned some where (probably ed 209) that the MSSC Sting was the actor size.
It's not news to me.

Anyway, like the rest of you, I'd rather buy half of all UC replicas than spend this much on one item.[/quote]

Re: Sting FINE ART LIMITED EDITION Released!

20
Myapologies for my ignorance of this fact. I had assumed that no one would ever make the same mistake that Noble Collection had made. I will admit that i actually opted in for this sting, however i am now considering a last minute cancel solely based ont his fact alone.

Its not that i think it is any less of a sword because of the size increase. In fact i would be incredibly excited to have a Gladius type sword with an elvish theme to it. However at this price, i e xp ected to have the most faithful realization of Tolkien version of sting, and with it sized as a short sword, it can never be.

Looking at my MC UC sting i get that sense of wonder, knowing how small a hobbit would have to be to use this as a sword. And i know that i can never achieve that same feeling looking at this 27" inch replica. A sad day indeed for this collector.

Re: Sting FINE ART LIMITED EDITION Released!

21
No problem... looks like many of us also forgot this detail.

You could achieve that same feeling if you are around 5'-6" tall because the 27" sword is in scale with a a hobbit that is 5'-6" tall... :)

I am about that height so the idea is intriguing... What is the blade of the NC Sting made of?

Tim

[quote=""Conan""]

Looking at my MC UC sting i get that sense of wonder, knowing how small a hobbit would have to be to use this as a sword. And i know that i can never achieve that same feeling looking at this 27" inch replica. A sad day indeed for this collector.[/quote]

Re: Sting FINE ART LIMITED EDITION Released!

22
[quote=""timdp""]No problem... looks like many of us also forgot this detail.

You could achieve that same feeling if you are around 5'-6" tall because the 27" sword is in scale with a a hobbit that is 5'-6" tall... :)

I am about that height so the idea is intriguing... What is the blade of the NC Sting made of?

Tim[/quote]

Tim that would be the tallest hobbit ever in fact im sure they would banish such a person on the assumption it could be an imposter hobbit lol,

I didnt mean i wanted to feel like a hobbit holding sting.. which is cool. I wanted to feel like myself finding the real sting and if its not the lore cannon size then it will not feel like the real sting to me. I hope you understand what i mean

Re: Sting FINE ART LIMITED EDITION Released!

23
Guys, you must realize that the MSSC swords are meant to be the "HERO" props.

When a particular prop is called a HERO prop, it means that the prop was used for close up shots in the movie almost always with the actor's face in the shot and hence in this case necessitating that the Hero Sting be 27" when held in Elijah Wood's hands for these closeups.

Hero props were much better made than the stunt versions; they were made with proper spring steel and more finely crafted whereas the stunts were made from aluminium and presumably the attention to detail would not have been as good since they were made to be bashed around and replaced frequently (although insiders say that Peter Lyon's stunt made swords were so durable they had to be replaced less frequently in comparison to the industry standard).

And besides, it was clear from day one that the MSSC Sting would be actor scaled.

It boils down to this: do you want something out of cinema making history or something out of middle earth?
Last edited by Aragorn on Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Sting FINE ART LIMITED EDITION Released!

24
[quote=""Aragorn""]Guys, you must realize that the MSSC swords are meant to be the "HERO" props.

When a particular prop is called a HERO prop, it means that the prop was used for close up shots in the movie almost always with the actor's face in the shot and hence in this case necessitating that the Hero Sting be 27" when held in Elijah Wood's hands for these closeups.

Hero props were much better made than the stunt versions; they were made with proper spring steel and more finely crafted whereas the stunts were made from aluminium and presumably the attention to detail would not have been as good since they were made to be bashed around and replaced frequently (although insiders say that Peter Lyon's stunt made swords were so durable they had to be replaced less frequently in comparison to the industry standard).

And besides, it was clear from day one that the MSSC Sting would be actor scaled.

It boils down to this: do you want something out of cinema making history or something out of middle earth?[/quote]

First off i believe everyone answer here would be something out of Middle earth.

And secondly i doubt that the actors ever actually posed with a spring steel blade there would be no point in that. though i dont know for sure, i just dont see why it would be necessary to spend more when it wouldnt make the sword look any more real.

And thirdly as its been said before, the sword was made 27 inches because the Actor was a normal sized man and when they shrunk him down digitally they needed to shrink down his sword as well thus the need to make it 27 inches. Seeing as none of us collectors will be shrunk down there is hardly any point in holding a 27 inch sting as if it were a dagger. Basically it boils down to would you like a short sword that looks like sting from lord of the rings? and pay a premium for it as if it were made to exact cannon standards?

Re: Sting FINE ART LIMITED EDITION Released!

25
[quote=""Conan""]Tim that would be the tallest hobbit ever in fact im sure they would banish such a person on the assumption it could be an imposter hobbit lol,

I didnt mean i wanted to feel like a hobbit holding sting.. which is cool. I wanted to feel like myself finding the real sting and if its not the lore cannon size then it will not feel like the real sting to me. I hope you understand what i mean[/quote]

Understood... :D

Re: Sting FINE ART LIMITED EDITION Released!

26
Yeah, Tim, I must confess that your statement confused me as all hobbits are about 3-foot-nothing, unless you count Merry and Pippin growing a wee bit taller due to consuming the entdraughts.

Like Conan said, if I pick up Sting, I'm not imagining myself as a hobbit holding it, I'm e xp eriencing what it would be like for a human (myself) to hold a properly scaled elven dagger, which is what Sting is supposed to be.

Having said all that, Aragorn, I must respectfully disagree with your sentiment as to what this line of swords should represent. Yes, this is a piece of movie-making history, but at the same time I see nothing wrong with holding respect for the source material to which it owes its existence and correctly reproducing this sword in the only scale it would exist in Middle-earth: as a 22" long elven dagger that looks like a short sword in the hands of a hobbit. I don't care how good they had to make the sword to have it look right in Elijah Wood's hands; at the end of the day, he was playing a hobbit, not a human, and I want a replica that reflects the illusion of a sword from the world of Middle-earth, not that of a movie prop. There is a difference and it is one that is very crucial for collectors that care about those details, this guy included.
This Space for Rent

Re: Sting FINE ART LIMITED EDITION Released!

27
I'm sorry Conan but your post is a little inaccurate particularly the second and third points that you make.

Point 2: It has been well documented that Weta went to great lengths to create fantastically authentic props that were often the real deal (e.g. The hero swords) or at the very least very close to it (e.g. The PVC pipe chain Mail).

The rationale behind this was that Weta wanted to create an authentic environment for the actors and given the way Viggo Mortensen was reportedly so attached to his Strider sword (& the way he got into character so well as did the others) I daresay it was not a wasted e xp ense.

Weta certainly could have pumped out their swords in resin and given it a realistic metallic paint job but that wasn't the road that was taken. If they did that than all they needed was a sculptor to mold a sword in some molding medium and pull out a few resin pieces from the mold. But instead they got in a real e xp ert in Peter Lyon to forge these blades. This guy is the real deal. If you have the chance, you can look up some of his posts at sword forum international where you can see him discussing and studying some of the finer and intricate points of the smithing craft.

Some of the sword designs are a bit fantastical and a case in point would be Glamdring. From a functional perspective leaf shape blades do not lend themselves well to being constructed as a long blade. The problem is that they become unwieldy and top heavy with uneven flex (I.e. blade flex only at the thin part of the blade and not consistently through the blade and this is not ideal). But what Peter Lyon has done is he has tinkered with the design and made it into a workable design that can be translated to an actual functional sword.

I own a Weta Glamdring and while the handling is not as good as the very best traditional custom made bastard swords, the Weta Glamdring has very competent handling and is within the range of what most would consider as a functional sword. The blade flex is consistent and it does not feel unwieldy (much to my surprise). Bottom line is Peter Lyon knows how to make beautiful and functional swords. If there ever was a tricky fantasy sword that was physically impossible to translate from paper to functional steel, if anyone can do it is this guy.

Third point: They did not shrink Elijah wood using CGI. They played around with camera depth to create the effects. Simple e xp lanation: They got Elijah wood to stand in the background and gandalf to stand in the foreground and with quite a bit of tinkering of the set and cameras, they could create the illusion that the two are standing side by side.




[quote=""Conan""]First off i believe everyone answer here would be something out of Middle earth.

And secondly i doubt that the actors ever actually posed with a spring steel blade there would be no point in that. though i dont know for sure, i just dont see why it would be necessary to spend more when it wouldnt make the sword look any more real.

And thirdly as its been said before, the sword was made 27 inches because the Actor was a normal sized man and when they shrunk him down digitally they needed to shrink down his sword as well thus the need to make it 27 inches. Seeing as none of us collectors will be shrunk down there is hardly any point in holding a 27 inch sting as if it were a dagger. Basically it boils down to would you like a short sword that looks like sting from lord of the rings? and pay a premium for it as if it were made to exact cannon standards?[/quote]
Last edited by Aragorn on Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:18 pm, edited 5 times in total.

Re: Sting FINE ART LIMITED EDITION Released!

28
Aragorn, I will be the first to not dispute the veracity of what you are saying. I think we all get it. What you seem to not be understanding is the main point most of us are trying to get across:

We do not want the version of Sting that was scaled for the actor. What we care about and would like to see is the 'realistic' version of Sting as if it were to exist in Middle-earth, meaning its 'true' size in the hand of a human.

We get that these are movie replicas, and as such, completely within Peter Lyon's and WETA's prerogative to make the decision to reproduce these faithfully to movie prop (actor) scale. However, we, as collectors, are merely stating that this is NOT our preference and that we would rather see Sting as the small elven dagger it is supposed to be. That is certainly our right, or do you disagree with that also? I shouldn't think this is too hard to understand...?
This Space for Rent

Re: Sting FINE ART LIMITED EDITION Released!

29
[quote=""Aragorn""]I'm sorry Conan but your post is a little inaccurate particularly the second and third points that you make.

Point 2: It has been well documented that Weta went to great lengths to create fantastically authentic props that were often the real deal (e.g. The hero swords) or at the very least very close to it (e.g. The PVC pipe chain Mail).

The rationale behind this was that Weta wanted to create an authentic environment for the actors and given the way Viggo Mortensen was reportedly so attached to his Strider sword (& the way he got into character so well as did the others) I daresay it was not a wasted e xp ense.

Weta certainly could have pumped out their swords in resin and given it a realistic metallic paint job but that wasn't the road that was taken. If they did that than all they needed was a sculptor to mold a sword in some molding medium and pull out a few resin pieces from the mold. But instead they got in a real e xp ert in Peter Lyon to forge these blades. This guy is the real deal. If you have the chance, you can look up some of his posts at sword forum international where you can see him discussing and studying some of the finer and intricate points of the smithing craft.

Some of the sword designs are a bit fantastical and a case in point would be Glamdring. From a functional perspective leaf shape blades do not lend themselves well to being constructed as a long blade. The problem is that they become unwieldy and top heavy with uneven flex (I.e. blade flex only at the thin part of the blade and not consistently through the blade and this is not ideal). But what Peter Lyon has done is he has tinkered with the design and made it into a workable design that can be translated to an actual functional sword.

I own a Weta Glamdring and while the handling is not as good as the very best traditional custom made bastard swords, the Weta Glamdring has very competent handling and is within the range of what most would consider as a functional sword. The blade flex is consistent and it does not feel unwieldy (much to my surprise). Bottom line is Peter Lyon knows how to make beautiful and functional swords. If there ever was a tricky fantasy sword that was physically impossible to translate from paper to functional steel, if anyone can do it is this guy.

Third point: They did not shrink Elijah wood using CGI. They played around with camera depth to create the effects. Simple e xp lanation: They got Elijah wood to stand in the background and gandalf to stand in the foreground and with quite a bit of tinkering of the set and cameras, they could create the illusion that the two are standing side by side.[/quote]

I respectfuly disagree with you and would also like to site evidense to the contrary. They did in fact use multiple techniques to make the hobbit actors look smaller. ...


Here's a quote from Peter Jackson on another site: Quote:~

'The actors that play hobbits in our movies are all being made to look small, so we certainly agree that absolutely hobbits are smaller than normal people, and even though we've cast actors like Elijah and Sean, they are being made to look small. We're doing this through a variety of techniques, like we're doing a lot of bluescreen work where we can composite them onto scenes at a smaller size. We're also using a lot of old fashioned techniques like forced perspective, which is a technique that you simply put the hobbit actor a bit further away from the camera than the human-sized actor, and therefore the hobbits appear to be smaller, which is a very well used and simple technique - but we've also made that more complex by being able to move the camera with forced perspective shots, which people have traditionally not been able to do, and we're using computers and motion control platforms and various other things to be able to push that technique to another level.'

As you can see they used "blue screens" to technically shrink them into smaller sizes.

And concerning resin swords.. i never said they would do such a thing. They usually use aluminum as it can withstand some impact in sword reenactment yet it is cheap and very easy to make many of them.

Re: Sting FINE ART LIMITED EDITION Released!

30
I agree that Sting should be Middle Earth Hobbit sized. Even the 22" version strikes me more of a short sword than a dagger.

Concerning the use of blue screen and "shrinking them down", they didn't shrink them. Those blue screen shots were used where forced perspective wouldn't work. Like Bilbo or Frodo standing in front of Gandalf in Bag End; Frodo & Bilbo were flimed in the "big" Bag End (blue screen- no real Bag End), Gandalf shot in the hobbit sized Bag End. I guess if you think of that as shrinking them, I understand. The point here is the size of the Sting in relation to Elijah Wood is NOT the Sting of Frodo.

I'm collecting for My Middle Earth, and it's characters. I don't want film proportioned pieces. What if there had been a shot where a hobbit had to pick up Glamdring, would you want that Glamdring in your collection?
"and I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with skill, ability and knowledge in all kinds of crafts- to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver and bronze, to cut stones, to work in wood, and engage in all kinds of craftsmanship"

Re: Sting FINE ART LIMITED EDITION Released!

31
[quote=""Conan""]I respectfuly disagree with you and would also like to site evidense to the contrary. They did in fact use multiple techniques to make the hobbit actors look smaller. ...


Here's a quote from Peter Jackson on another site: Quote:~

'The actors that play hobbits in our movies are all being made to look small, so we certainly agree that absolutely hobbits are smaller than normal people, and even though we've cast actors like Elijah and Sean, they are being made to look small. We're doing this through a variety of techniques, like we're doing a lot of bluescreen work where we can composite them onto scenes at a smaller size. We're also using a lot of old fashioned techniques like forced perspective, which is a technique that you simply put the hobbit actor a bit further away from the camera than the human-sized actor, and therefore the hobbits appear to be smaller, which is a very well used and simple technique - but we've also made that more complex by being able to move the camera with forced perspective shots, which people have traditionally not been able to do, and we're using computers and motion control platforms and various other things to be able to push that technique to another level.'

As you can see they used "blue screens" to technically shrink them into smaller sizes.

And concerning resin swords.. i never said they would do such a thing. They usually use aluminum as it can withstand some impact in sword reenactment yet it is cheap and very easy to make many of them.[/quote]

You are right Conan. They did use a number of techniques including CGI techniques.. But at the time, there were some technical limitations with using CGI to "shrink" the actor that would result in a choppy picture on the cinema screen. Peter Jackson preferred using "forced perspective"/play with camera depth because it was easier to create a smoother picture quality. In many of the crucial scenes where picture quality would be under the highest scrutiny, Peter Jackson stuck with good old "forced perspective". Two examples of this was the scene where Frodo rode on the Cart with Gandalf and the Hobbit hole scene where Frodo was sitting with Gandalf.

Forced perspective was certainly more inconvenient because they had to alter the props on the set to make the characters look like they were sitting in front of each other when in fact the table was split in half with one half in the background and the other in the foreground with both characters appearing to look at each other when in fact they were staring into space.

And apparently when they wanted to have a bit of camera movement around the room, they had to built revolving stages to rotate tables, chairs etc to move in tandem with the camera movement.

It was all a bit elaborate and certainly less convenient than a blue screen. But apparently back then it was the better option in Peter Jackson's opinion.

[quote=""Valkrist""]Aragorn, I will be the first to not dispute the veracity of what you are saying. I think we all get it. What you seem to not be understanding is the main point most of us are trying to get across:

We do not want the version of Sting that was scaled for the actor. What we care about and would like to see is the 'realistic' version of Sting as if it were to exist in Middle-earth, meaning its 'true' size in the hand of a human.

We get that these are movie replicas, and as such, completely within Peter Lyon's and WETA's prerogative to make the decision to reproduce these faithfully to movie prop (actor) scale. However, we, as collectors, are merely stating that this is NOT our preference and that we would rather see Sting as the small elven dagger it is supposed to be. That is certainly our right, or do you disagree with that also? I shouldn't think this is too hard to understand...?[/quote]

Valkrist. I have no idea what you are on about.

I pointed out that when we collect LOTR/Hobbit weapons, we can either look at it as creating a movie prop collection OR as a consistent collection of middle earth relics.

In response to this, Conan in the first point of his post takes the opinion that most people on these boards would prefer the later option.

I do not dispute what he has said in relation to this and therefore did not see the need to address this first point but only went on to talk about the 2nd and 3rd points.

But since you wish to talk about this issue, my personal position is that I am actually fine with a 27" Hero Sting or 22".
Having an authentic Elijah wood sized sting is just as cool as a true to middle earth scaled sting. One has the movie prop nerd factor while the other has the Tolkien lore nerd factor.
Last edited by Aragorn on Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:04 am, edited 10 times in total.

Re: Sting FINE ART LIMITED EDITION Released!

32
Very heated subjected matter on the size of Sting. Although I have no interest in buying one of the MSSC editions (realistic interests, I'd love to own the entire series) but I have to side with the smaller version.

I want the sword to be what a real life hobbit would have held, the one the elves made, not the size that a regular human had to hold in order to make the sword look bigger to a hobbit (as in the one Elijah Wood would have held). Its almost the same as if they made a giant version of Anduril for Elijah Wood to stand next to, its not the "REAL" version.

Re: Sting FINE ART LIMITED EDITION Released!

33
Aragorn, I find it a little strange and even somewhat insulting that you claim you don't know what I "am on about."

It was pretty clear to myself from your initial post that you were defending WETA's decision to release Sting in actor-scale, and you did so with a great amount of vehemence in your tone. My replies were aimed at countering that argument by presenting to you what was clearly the majority opinion in this thread, which is that we did not agree with such a decision.

My problem was not with filming techniques, which is what your debate with Conan centered on, but with the difference of opinions on the size of the blade and the reasons behind that. You are ok with it; most of us are not. Still not sure what I "am on about"?

Lastly, I do wish to "talk about this issue" since it was the central discussion topic when you jumped in and commented on it. Why is that so strange to you?
Last edited by Valkrist on Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
This Space for Rent

Re: Sting FINE ART LIMITED EDITION Released!

34
I myself wouldn't mind owning the larger version. But it would be the fine art edition that I would buy if any of them. A sword with that beautiful silver inlayed hilt would have to be a bigger size for me so I could appreciate it even more.

In the end I'll go for UC's version. Can't afford either of the weta versions :(
"All those moments will be lost, in time... like tears, in the rain..."

Re: Sting FINE ART LIMITED EDITION Released!

35
[quote=""Valkrist""]Aragorn, I find it a little strange and even somewhat insulting that you claim you don't know what I "am on about."

It was pretty clear to myself from your initial post that you were defending WETA's decision to release Sting in actor-scale, and you did so with a great amount of vehemence in your tone. My replies were aimed at countering that argument by presenting to you what was clearly the majority opinion in this thread, which is that we did not agree with such a decision.

My problem was not with filming techniques, which is what your debate with Conan centered on, but with the difference of opinions on the size of the blade and the reasons behind that. You are ok with it; most of us are not. Still not sure what I "am on about"?

Lastly, I do wish to "talk about this issue" since it was the central discussion topic when you jumped in and commented on it. Why is that so strange to you?[/quote]

Firstly, I do not intend to offend you in my earlier reply to you. If I did, then I apologise. I do not wish to sour the discussion and make it unpleasant for everyone.

As for my initial post about defending Weta's decision to go with the 27" scale, I am not really defending them. I thought it would be good to just offer an alternative perspective: Movie props vs middle earth relics.

In relation to this discussion on scale, my understanding is that the MSSC was always intended to be a reproduced line of hero sword movie props...i.e. an opportunity for the public to purchase a piece of Weta's craftwork as opposed to purchasing a LOTR sword. A big part of the intrinsic value of purchasing an MSSC sword is that it is made by Peter Lyon at the Weta Workshop. You certainly pay a big premium to own one of these that's for sure, but for those willing to pay, there is that collectible X-Factor: that collectibility heritage; that history and real life cinematic backstory behind the particular piece you have hanging on your wall.

Weta never did make a 22" Hero Sting and to suddenly offer one as part of the MSSC line would create a disconnect with this intangible value of collectibility that you are paying a premium for. And IMO the purchaser would be better off just sticking with United Cutlery because a 22" option would simply detract from this collectibility X-Factor.

And on that topic, it is interesting to note that the silver inlay option does also create a bit of a disconnect, but at least it is easily rationalised by the obssessed nerd on the basis that the Silver Inlay was always part of the artistic vision of the Daniel Falconer when he first designed Sting but was cost prohibitive to implement at the time.

But of course this is just my opinion. I can appreciate why collectors would want a consistent scale for display purposes.
Last edited by Aragorn on Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:24 am, edited 7 times in total.

Re: Sting FINE ART LIMITED EDITION Released!

36
A very well put forth e xp lanation for your reasoning, Aragorn. I can certainly appreciate your position and that of WETA's much better now. It does not change my personal preference, but it is consistent with their previous products in this line from the perspective you present, and that is an important consideration to observe.

Thank you. :thumbs_up
This Space for Rent

Re: Sting FINE ART LIMITED EDITION Released!

37
Well i can see why Weta went with the decision to make the same version that they had done for the movie props. However i still hold strong with my opinion that people wanted to have the actual sword depicted on screen which (no matter what technique was in fact used) the end result was still a sword that was only a sword in the hands of a hobbit and a large knife in the hands of a normal man or elf.

I read a good point earlier. This would almost be like Weta making a huge glamdring based on what it might have looked like in the hands of a hobbit , and no one would like something like that am i right? So your point is valid and as i have said, i would love a short sword that looks like sting. But for that price i wanted what Tolkien Myself and even Peter Jackson envisioned the real sting to be, Which was a long dagger.

Theres a certain feeling one gets when holding one of these swords. When i hold my glamdring for example, i feel like i am holding a relic of the past or perhaps the actual sword that King Turgon wielded in gondalin ages ago. But when i hold this "MC sting" That feeling can not exist as i would know that this is not how sting would look or feel. Maybe if i had the body of a giant and the mind of an average 5"11 man then it could work, but im just not that lucky.

Re: Sting FINE ART LIMITED EDITION Released!

38
[quote=""Elvenguard13""]In the end I'll go for UC's version. Can't afford either of the weta versions [/quote]

Lol, I'm gonna jump in this pond too. Being teenagers, we don't have the MSSC option as a luxury! :crazy:

But as for the scale debate: personally, I'd prefer 22". There's a reason I have only LotR things in one room, and that room is pretty much dedicated to them. I want to be "stepping into" Middle-Earth when I view my collection. So even though I'm a devout Weta fan and would gladly kiss Pete Lyon's feet, I must say I'd rather have a Middle-Earth scale Sting. :thumbs_up

I can honestly see why they'd go actor scale with this though. A majority of the people who can invest in the MSSC line are going to be more hardcore-film lovers who collect high end things like this, and would want the "piece of cinema history". And there's nothing wrong with that, to each their own. Either way, this sword's still gonna be awesome, cause Peter Lyon is a pro at what he does and Weta never disappoints. Daniel Falconer designed a beautiful weapon that will look good with or without inlaid silver and in any scale. ;)
"Remember, the force will be with you, always."

Re: Sting FINE ART LIMITED EDITION Released!

39
[quote=""Fingolfin""] I can honestly see why they'd go actor scale with this though. A majority of the people who can invest in the MSSC line are going to be more hardcore-film lovers who collect high end things like this, and would want the "piece of cinema history". And there's nothing wrong with that, to each their own. Either way, this sword's still gonna be awesome, cause Peter Lyon is a pro at what he does and Weta never disappoints. Daniel Falconer designed a beautiful weapon that will look good with or without inlaid silver and in any scale. ;) [/quote]

Son, are you practicing to be a politician ???? ;)

"Eternity is an awful long time, especially towards the end."

"What you see and what you hear depends a great deal on where you are standing.
It also depends on what sort of person you are.” -- CSL

Re: Sting FINE ART LIMITED EDITION Released!

41
[quote=""Fingolfin""]LOL! You're right, I totally do sound like a politician right there. Its in the blood, my parents are lawyers.
:crazy: [/quote]
Please walk to the beat of a different drummer.

Here's one of the few jokes I know:
A doctor, lawyer, & physicist were playing golf. While playing their game they engaged in a conversation as to which profession was first to come into being.
The doctor made his point that when God created woman, he made her from one of the man ribs, which is a surgical procedure.

The physicist said no, before the woman was made God created the heavens and the earth out of chaos, which was definitely physics.

The lawyer interrupted and said, "Where do you think the chaos came from?"
Last edited by Thranduil on Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"and I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with skill, ability and knowledge in all kinds of crafts- to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver and bronze, to cut stones, to work in wood, and engage in all kinds of craftsmanship"
Post Reply

Return to “Weta Workshop”