Different versions of Thror's Map

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I asked this question on the Flame but I know that many of you not only have one of these but are also knowledgeable on the various versions of the map, though I can't find the discussions that I seem to recall on it.

There are SO many versions of Thror's map out there. I wondered what everyone's opinions were on the various options. I know Noble Collection makes one, Indy Makes one (or two?), Weta makes two versions, and several individual prop makers make them. Is there a "most accurate" version out there? I would assume that Weta's is screen accurate, but I seem to remember some talk about how the map in the film was different from the map seen in the book, which (if I remember correctly) was itself different from the map seen on Bilbo's desk in The Fellowship of the Ring movie. Am I crazy, or was that a thing? Anyone happen to know which versions for sale represent a replica of the Hobbit movie version vs the Fellowship version vs the book version?


And while we're on the subject of different versions of the same prop, does anyone have a preference for Indy's Isildur scroll versus deMiguel's version? The latter is a hard man to locate these days so that might push me to buy Indy's regardless; just curious if anyone thought one was of better make over the other.
"Remember, the force will be with you, always."

Re: Different versions of Thror's Map

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I'll try to offer what insights I can as to the differences between the maps, though my memory is spotty. Hopefully Kit can correct me where I go wrong because he's far more familiar with the movie props used.

The map first seen in FOTR is, I believe, the closest to the original one in the book. I don't recall what the differences are, if any, except perhaps for Smaug's depiction on the map. The version that Indy makes is based on the FOTR version, not the one seen in the new trilogy. He also offers (or did at any rate,) a version that was exactly like the one in the book.

The map seen in the Hobbit is different from the FOTR one and the book one in several ways. One is that the name on the map is changed from Thror to Thrain. Also, the orientation of the secret door is changed, some of the writing has been removed, like "there are spiders", and Smaug is changed yet again. There are no explanations that I can think of for these changes, and they seem very odd to me because they make the map far more innacurate to the original, which is the one drawn by Tolkien and found in the book itself.

As for the commercial versions, I think Weta's and Noble's offerings are essentially identical, and they both depict the second map, the one from the Hobbit movies.

I opted to buy Indy's version because it is much more faithful to the book.

On your question about Isildur's Scroll, the deMiguel version is leaps and bounds better than Indy's. I owned both at one point and opted to sell my Indy version once I got deMiguel's. The latter is aged much more convincingly, the script is done better, and it includes the entirety of the text seen in the version that Gandalf holds in the movie. For some strange reason, Indy left out the first paragraph in his version, but deMiguel's restores it.

Hope that helps.
This Space for Rent

Re: Different versions of Thror's Map

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Thanks, that is immensely helpful! I'm sitting here looking at the map in my book and the Weta production photos...it's very odd that they would bother to make minute changes when Tolkien plainly wrote out a copy for them!

Do you have any other Indy props besides the Red Book? I was thinking about placing an order with him.
"Remember, the force will be with you, always."

Re: Different versions of Thror's Map

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Yeah, it puzzles me also. Just one of those things that makes me wonder why they are trying to one-up the authour of the books with changes that don't make sense or add anything to a movie adapatation. The only part that I can conjecture on is that text like "there are spiders" was left out because those are meant to be later additions by Bilbo? One could say Thror likely did not write a comment like that because perhaps in the time when he drew the map the spiders had not gone that far north. Therefore, this would have been a change made to the map between the time we first see it in the Hobbit, and later on when Gandalf sees it in Bag End decades later. Still, this theory does nothing to explain why Thror changes to Thrain, or why the secret door is suddendly in a different place. Even if one reasons these were inaccuracies in the early map that Bilbo later corrected, there would be obvious signs of those corrections. I don't think Wite-out was available in the Shire. Just doesn't make sense.

To answer your question, the only Indy props I own are the Red Book and Thror's map (with frame and glass.) I also had Isildur's Scroll, but as I said, I sold that.
This Space for Rent

Re: Different versions of Thror's Map

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At the time I bought it, which was some years ago now, yes, he did sell it with the frame, and also with a glass cover if you wanted to hang or protect the map. It does include the moon runes but he no longer offers the UV pen. There were also two sizes on offer at the time, and I opted for the smaller version, which he said was the movie-accurate one.
This Space for Rent

Re: Different versions of Thror's Map

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Fingolfin wrote:Awesome, I might email him about it then. I don't see it on his "for sale" website, but it's on the Indy Props page so hopefully he's still making them!
Going to add my 2 cents....
I think the reason for the door mark change is that PJ and comapny decided that the pointing finger should actually point to EXACTLY where the secret door was. Never mind that this a secret map and info should not be in your face obvious (moon runes, remember?) It is as if, once again, they have decided that Tolkien saturated veiwers are too dense to figure out the finger is still pointing to a marker on the map.

I have Indy's smaller version also, unframed.
Val, don't you have Indy's Smaug hoard gold coins?

"Eternity is an awful long time, especially towards the end."

"What you see and what you hear depends a great deal on where you are standing.
It also depends on what sort of person you are.” -- CSL

Re: Different versions of Thror's Map

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Fingolfin wrote:Wow, that etsy one looks very accurate for what is probably half the cost of Indy's. :huh: Now I have to make decisions! :O
Fin, it's half the cost because YOU do half the work...just didn't want you to forget that part of the equation ;)

"Eternity is an awful long time, especially towards the end."

"What you see and what you hear depends a great deal on where you are standing.
It also depends on what sort of person you are.” -- CSL
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