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No, you'll have to tell me what that moment was as I've been wondering about it.

The one that threw me off was the lingering look that Jessica gave Paul as he was stripping down to put on his stillsuit. This was followed by a return glance that Paul gave back at Jessica once she turned away and began to undress as well. It was awkward and not a little uncomfortable, prompting my wife to ask me after if there was some kind of incestuous undertone to their relationship. I don't recall anything of the sort in the book, so I said no. I thought it was more to do with her realization that he seemed vulnerable still, but he was no longer a boy now, but a man?

I'm rather curious as to what DV was trying to convey there because, of course, the internet tongues are a'wagging already over it.
This Space for Rent

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I’ve got my tickets for Dune later today. I’ll let you know my thoughts after I’ve had time to process it. It’s been a long time since I was at the cinema, I think the last time was when I saw The Rise of Skywalker in January 2020.
"All those moments will be lost, in time... like tears, in the rain..."

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Lindir wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 7:41 pm Out of curiosity, does UC have plans for any other Dune replicas?
Duncan's long sword is next, and hopefully his short sword after that. I want to do another version of the Crysknife Paul used at the end, but with the sheath instead of the display this time, but that may have to wait for part 2, if UC wants to do it. I wanted to do the sheath originally, but we could not get any images or props of the sheath until it was too late. Had we known the movie would get bumped back a year, we would have waited.

I would love to do that Sardaukar sword too, but that depends how Duncan's swords sell.
KRDS

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I’m down for Duncan’s swords. I want to get the crysknife too - not sure when it’ll be available here in the UK.

Are you allowed to share any of your product shots Kit and any teases for the Duncan sword?

I keep thinking about Dune today. I need to see it again. I really enjoyed it and seeing it on the big screen was an amazing experience. The soundtrack was amazing and deafening in parts but it added to the experience for me.

I’m blown away and don’t quite know how to process it haha
"All those moments will be lost, in time... like tears, in the rain..."

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Lindir wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:07 am I’m down for Duncan’s swords. I want to get the crysknife too - not sure when it’ll be available here in the UK.

Are you allowed to share any of your product shots Kit and any teases for the Duncan sword?
The first run of Paul's Crysknives are all sold, so it probably won't be until early next year when more start shipping. I did not even get one.

I have had the CAD drawings for Duncan's sword done for nearly a year now, but UC did not even approve it until the day before Dune Part II was given the green light, so they don't have a prototype made yet. The good news is that Duncan's swords, and the Atreides swords in general, are all simple and inexpensive to make, so the price should be reasonable compared to LOTR.

I can see UC making more Crysknives later too, like Stilgar's, but that will probably be when part II is released. They are all similar in shape, but the engraved designs and lettering engraved in the hilts is different on each.
KRDS

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Saw it again and loved it more. It’s definitely something to be enjoyed at the cinema, I really love the cast, the story, the world building and of course the music. Im excited for part 2.

Also it reaffirms me being 100% down for Duncan’s swords. Hopefully the Dune line will do well and we can have a few different items from movies. Would UC ever be allowed to do helmets? There’s a couple of helmets in the movie that I’d love to get replicas of.
"All those moments will be lost, in time... like tears, in the rain..."

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Olorin wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 6:04 pm The press release about the Dune Blu-ray release is being reported in various places today. This will include a bunch of featurettes, but notably absent from any of the articles is any mention of a gallery of deleted scenes.
Of course. :rolleye:

I honestly don't know what some directors have against deleted scenes. Or maybe this is a prelude and ploy to the ol' double dip game. Gotta say though, now that streaming has taken root, the days of 15 different releases/versions/editions/etc on physical media of each movie are long over... unless you're LOTR, of course.
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I immediately thought of the double dip. And I have no doubt there will be a double dip or triple dip. Once the second movie comes out (or the third, if he goes ahead with Dune Messiah), there will undoubtedly be a box set. I think Warner (the releasing studio for Dune) did a box set every time there was a new Harry Potter movie, LOL. I know they also did at least one box set before all seasons of Game of Thrones were out. So we may get a box after Part 2 and another one after Messiah. So, plenty of opportunities for deleted scenes.

Unless of course Villeneuve has embargoed them. He's famously against director's cuts but I have not heard the same about deleted scenes. Considering how he said it pained him to cut the scene with Gurney and his baliset, I'd think he'd want to get these out there. But who knows?

I wonder how double-dipping will get translated for the streaming/download era. For those who actually buy downloads (is that a thing?), obviously the studio could keep coming up with souped-up versions of the movie. I have not yet heard about any extra features being made available for streaming or download, however.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

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I do know that not every version of a movie is always available on streaming, or at least not for free. Commonly, it tends to be the original theatrical release that a service has paid the rights for, and that's usually about it.

Take my recent example of wanting to watch the Director's Cut of Troy (the one with Brad Pitt). I have that version on DVD but with on a 75" 4K screen, it's going to suffer. Off I went to find it in one of my three streaming services, and though it is an old movie now and you'd expect to not have to pay for it, Amazon Prime only has the TE for free. The DC is available, but for a premium. I also felt like watching the DC of Black Hawk Down the other day (Scott's movies are famous for being far superior in the DC version) and again, only the TE was available. Luckily the 4K disc was going for fairly cheap on Amazon (oh the irony) so I opted for a permanent copy rather than pay for something impermanent.

Then you have services like Disney+, where when it comes to stuff like Star Wars, only the latest, Lucas-tinkered version, is available for viewing and nothing else.
This Space for Rent

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WB are definitely going to double dip and make other versions available later. Villeneuve is opposed to extended cuts of his films - since the released version are his directors cuts - but he is not opposed to deleted scenes. He has included them on past disks, so those will come out eventually. My guess (including a bit of insider info) is that there will be a deluxe release of Dune Part 1 that includes some of those deleted scenes prior to part 2 being released in cinemas.
KRDS

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Old news now, but Dune was nominated for 10 Oscars this week, including Best Picture...but not Best Director. I'd certainly consider that a snub, but it could stem from the fact that there can be 10 Best Picture nominees, but only 5 Best Directors. So, perhaps if Best Picture were still limited to 5, the movie wouldn't have made the cut, either.

I also saw a bit of an interview with Villeneuve the other day. I don't know if it was a recent interview, or conducted around the time the movie was released. Villeneuve was lamenting cutting a scene of Gurney singing. He said it really broke his heart to cut it, but once he cuts something, it's dead to him. I mean, come on. Full disclosure: I don't work in the movie industry, have any connections in it, or know a bit about it more than another other movie fan does. And I get that directors (at least ones with final cut) make the cuts they do to achieve a final product that works best as a movie, not necessarily one that answers all the questions, includes fan-favorite scenes, or anything else. But if it "breaks your heart" to cut a scene, at least have a deleted scenes section on the Blu-Ray, for crying out loud. That way, you've put it out there so that it still has some kind of life, your actors are happy, and the fans are happy. Win-win-win.

And if you're really savvy, like Peter Jackson, you say that the cuts that were in the theaters were definitely your preferred cuts, but here's a longer cut just for the fans. But I fear it may be long odds even to get deleted scenes, and a longer cut is absolutely not ever going to happen. I don't know that a longer cut of Dune would be a quantum improvement over the theatrical cut, the way the EEs of LOTR were over the TEs. It's still going to be a dour story, even if it breathes a little better. But I just think it would satisfy those instances where something really felt missing.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

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They're showing the first one again, but I'd rather watch at home. I barely ever go to a theatre anymore because I can't stand other moviegoers and I always have the worst luck with people talking, kicking the seat, checking their phones, playing with candy wrappers for two hours, etc, etc.

However, there is still the occasional event that will get me out. There is an IMAX 20 minutes from my place, and that's where I'll be going to see Dune 2. Last time I was there was for Oppenheimer.
This Space for Rent

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Definitely seeing that one in the theater. We have a fake Imax near here. It's not the full sized screen, but at least it is the correct aspect ratio for the way the film was shot, so that is how I will be seeing it.

It's a shame part 1 was not released on Blu Ray in that aspect ratio, because there is much more of the image to be seen in the original format.
KRDS

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I saw part 2 Thursday in an Imax laser theater with the 1.90:1 aspect ratio. Not as big as the true 70mm Imax 1.43:1 screens, but more height in the image than you get in a standard theater, and the 4k detail was incredible. Except for one thing Villeneuve changed, I thought it was really good. Actually there were a couple of plot points he changed that I was a bit disappointed in, and a few characters I though needed more screen time, but I won't spoil anything. If you never read the book it won't matter. It picks up right were the last one left off and throws you right back into that world. The visuals and the sound are even more immersive than part 1, and it looks simply incredible. All the actors are great. Timothy managed to pull off the change to the prophet version of Paul, and he nailed it. The actor who plays Feyd nailed it too. Even better than I could have imagined.

As a whole, part 1 and 2 are really just one long film. As a book fan, there is so much missing that I really would have loved it if it were done as three films instead of two. Each film could have been broken up into each of the three "books" within the Dune novel. That was never going to happen though. Considering everything that had to be condensed or changed to work in the 5 hour run time, I don't see how anyone could have done it better than this.

See it in Imax if you can. This movie really needs to be seen in that aspect ratio, on the largest screen possible, with a good sound system. If you can suffer through the 40+ minutes (not joking) of ads and trailers before the film starts, it is worth it.
Last edited by Nasnandos on Sun Mar 03, 2024 6:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
KRDS

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I can't wait to go see it, making plans to go in the next week or so. I tend to avoid premiere weekends/week because I despise movie-going crowds.

It's disappointing to hear about changes that, if I'm hearing you right, detract from the source material rather than add to it. As we've gone through LOTR ad nauseum, we fully understand how and why some things have to be adapted for the change in medium and run time. However, it's when the changes made come off as nothing more than puzzling and unnecessary, and don't improve the original in any appreciable way that I take issue with. I've already heard about a couple of things in Part 2 that might bother me a bit, but I'll reserve final judgment until after seeing it. Regardless of any minor misgivings, I'm quite confident I'm going to love it.

Only things that really bothered me about Part 1 was the complete lack of world-building and any kind of explanation as to the politics between the Emperor, Great Houses, Bene Gesserit, Spacing Guild, and CHOAM. Heck, I don't think they even explain why the Spice is important, which is utterly baffling, and if they do, it's a throwaway line. These are at the heart of what drives this story forward and incites all of the events within it, but any information is practically non-existent. I wasn't expecting to sit through two hours of exposition, but seriously, they could have added a couple of lines of dialogue here and there to inform people a little better as to why things matter to these characters. I wasn't keen on the gender-swap of Liet Kynes either as I view that as a lazy DEI tactic that is beyond overused now, but at least it makes visual sense considering the actress they chose to portray Chani.
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Valkrist wrote: Sat Mar 02, 2024 8:53 am It's disappointing to hear about changes that, if I'm hearing you right, detract from the source material rather than add to it. As we've gone through LOTR ad nauseum, we fully understand how and why some things have to be adapted for the change in medium and run time. However, it's when the changes made come off as nothing more than puzzling and unnecessary, and don't improve the original in any appreciable way that I take issue with.
It was a change to one key character that I did not care for. I completely get why it was done, as I know how they will play that out in the next film, but I just don't care for it. Judging by the reaction some people behind me had when one specific scene with that character played out at the end of the film, it was not just me.

The other issue I was referring to was just about a big chunk of Paul's life with the Fremen, Chani, and Alia that is simply missing. Events that help to justify more why Paul does what he does in the third act. You can only fit in so much in a 2 1/2 hour film though. I get that Denis was focused on telling the main story, I just thought there was a way to keep some of that plot in and not have to change so much to make it work without it. Another 4-5 minutes is all it would have taken, but I think Denis is planning on working those same story elements into Dune Messiah.
KRDS

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This is all intriguing and I am glad to be able to read it spoiler free. I haven't heard any real spoilers for part two except for one that isn't really for certain. it's somebody's supposition that I saw on a video, but it may be what you are alluding to, Kit. But in any case, comments about feeling like things were left out, that's kind of how I felt about part one. It's amazing to think that they've taken one book and adapted it into essentially a five hour movie, and yet things still feel left out. I would say that that demonstrates that the appropriate format for this would've been a multi part streaming series, but then again, we see how even in that format, creators feel like they have carte blanche to change the story around any old way they wish. So I guess maybe if we're getting about five hours worth of dune with relatively few changes and yet grand visuals, it's probably the best we've apt to get. If only Villeneuve weren't so averse to extended cuts or deleted scenes galleries. I'm sure there was more filmed that would've helped the movie breathe. Oh and Val, I do think they covered the significance of the spice in part one, but as you suggest it was a throwaway line, it was on that educational movie that Paul was watching about Arrakis. I think so, anyway. I never bought Part One on Blu-ray because I know eventually there will be a box set of both movies or all three movies, and it's been quite a while since I watched it on Max. I thought about watching it again recently, but since I won't be able to see the new one until it comes out on Blu-ray or on Max, I didn't want to get myself hyped up now.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

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Olorin wrote: Sun Mar 03, 2024 5:06 pm Oh and Val, I do think they covered the significance of the spice in part one, but as you suggest it was a throwaway line, it was on that educational movie that Paul was watching about Arrakis. I think so, anyway.
Yes. that's exactly what I was remembering. I do have the movie, seen it a total of three times, but the fact that I had to search my memory for that throwaway line about what is arguably *the* single most important thing in the entire Dune saga, well... I think it speaks for itself. Honestly, as presented, it's barely comprehensible why, if the spice is mentioned only in passing, Arrakis is so damn important, and it makes the dynamic and politics between the Emperor, House Atreides, and House Harkonnen barely comprehensible in the movie. There's also zero mention of the Spacing Guild's involvement and stakes in all this. To me, as a reader, what made this book so interesting was all that intrigue, and the whole plots within plots concept. Nearly all of that is either dropped or completely glossed over, and Villeneuve himself confessed to neglecting most of it to focus on the Bene Gesserit most out of all the power groups, and make the Prophecy the central theme, which it should be, but not to the exclusion of nearly all else. Ah well.
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I think it's possible, when you know the story inside and out, to fail to accurately track how much essential detail you are getting in or leaving out when you're trying to adapt it into a film. Also, he may have gone back and watched the 1984 version with all of its interior monologues voiced over, and recoiled against trying to include too much texture like that. at the end, maybe we get a movie that works for people who know the story, though they may regret omissions, but leaves non-readers clueless to the greater depth. Is that enough? I don't know. For some people it would be. I think Peter Jackson's Lord of the rings movies captured that world better in terms of the world building, but who knows.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

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PJ definitely had loads more exposition in those movies, and that's true even if you leave out the prologue. Granted he had an additional movie to fit stuff in, but I think he did a great job explaining a lot of background stuff through dialogue that both delighted the book fans through its inclusion, and helped non-book readers to perhaps understand some things a little better. I find Villeneuve's approach overly threadbare in that respect. An interesting article here that explains a lot of why he directs the way he does: https://www.darkhorizons.com/denis-vill ... -dialogue/

While I agree with a lot of what he says, I think it's important to remember that visuals can't always explain everything. Sometimes, you just have to put up with people talking and explaining things, and not assume your entire audience has read the books so that the lore can go and get stuffed.
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I thought the opening montage and VO from Chani right at the beginning of Part 1 explained the spice and its importance quite well. It was touched on a few more times later in the film, but not as directly as the way Chani stated at the beginning.

One area I thought could have used more explanation, or at least made the point a few more times, was the shield+lasgun issue. I have had to explain that to a few non-book fans I know. One friend went on and on about this big plot hole. No one would ever use swords and knives when they had shields and those 'laser guns' that cut through everything. I'm pretty sure it was explained in film 1, but barely. I don't recall it mentioned at all in part 2. There is a line in 2 when someone says "no shields, no shields" in the middle of a battle. A woman behind me in the theater asked the person she was with why? There were a few chuckles at that.

It's a fine line between too much world building exposition and not enough. I thought Dune was a bit light in that area, but I also know two people who fell asleep watching part 1 because they were bored!
KRDS

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Ah yes, Chani's opening narration. Very good point. Still, I do wonder how many viewers have already forgotten that ten minutes into the film? I think it probably sticks more in our minds because the words have meaning to book readers, but the full relevance may be lost on the average moviegoer, and that information stands a low chance of being retrieved when you're deeper into the movie and wondering what's going on. This is why a few more reminders are needed, interspersed throughout. The worm attack on the harvester (or its aftermath), is a good example of where the spice's critical importance could be stressed again for the viewer.

It's an interesting topic, to be sure. Whenever I watch an adaptation of something I've read and really liked, I often watch the movie with that critical eye that asks: is this making any sense to someone who hasn't read the books? I think there's definitely both kinds out there, and Dune Part 1 borders close to leaving out just enough that it might leave people confused. Still, there's a way to overcompensate in other departments, like casting, visuals, action, etc, that this shortfall can be easily ignored by most. It's only folks like us that lament what we didn't get, but for those who are none the wiser, it doesn't really matter if what's up on screen is more than good enough otherwise.
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All this discussion caused me to pull up the movie on my Max app and watch the opening part of it. Chani's prologue does stress that the spice is important, but not really why. That's in the book film that Paul watches. In any case, watching the first 10 minutes or whatever, even on my iPhone, reminded me how visually stunning this movie is. Even though Denis felt behooved to desaturate the color, like pretty much any other movie made in the last 25 years and not named Barbie.

I've also been analyzing my own relationship to Dune, or more specifically the DV movies. As I think I have stated before, Dune is actually rather depressing when you get right down to it, and the many sequels even more so. I appreciate it for the depth of its world building. I think that with my overall impression of depression, and knowing that a lot of the world building will not appear on screen, explains why I am a bit cool to these movies while at the same time admiring them.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

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A quick tale about using enough exposition to establish points, and repeating as necessary to make sure they're driven in. One time many years ago I sat down with friends to watch the return of the king. It gets to the end of the movie and the one guy says, why does he get to be king? He had seen all three movies by this point, so he should full well have known. But he had never read the books, and I guess seeing the movies, for some reason although it was repeatedly established that Aragorn was the descendent of this bloodline, it didn't click for him.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

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I saw this the day it opened here in the UK.

I had one of the worst experiences in a theatre I’ve had. Usually I love seeing movies on the big screen but I’d had a bad day at work, I was tired and really my mind wasn’t ready for Dune.

Throughout the movie I was kicked repeatedly in the back, people were fidgeting and rustling papers and food packets, talking, etc

So it wasn’t great.

I left the movie feeling meh. I do want to see it again but I feel like Dune part 2 felt more shallow than the first instalment. Also the pacing was weird. The ending felt very very rushed and anti climactic. I haven’t read the book and I could have done with a bit more explanation as to why things were happening.

I understand - just through reading discussions online - that the moral of Dune is really a warning against Messiah figures.

But he’s very hesitant about accepting his path and then at one point he just accepts it and becomes everything he didn’t want to be.

I think the first part handled the visions much better as I really felt like I understood what was being conveyed through those.

I also didn’t feel like there were any real standout moments. Maybe this was because of the pacing. But I remember being blown away by the space visuals in the first movie, the Bene Gesserit landing on Caladan and the entire sequence where we first see a sandworm attack the sand crawler.

The arena battle with Feyd Rautha was cool but the majority of it had been seen in the trailers.

Emperor Shaddam’s scenes were pretty much all in the trailer as were the Princesses. Those were two characters I was looking forward to and who I feel really should have been expanded.

I want to see more about the court politics. I understand in the Dune universe the politics is much more feudalistic but seeing some of it would have been great.

But again, I didn’t have a great overall experience which has probably influenced my feelings on the movie, at least until I see it again. I do want to see it again before it finishes its theatrical run though.
"All those moments will be lost, in time... like tears, in the rain..."

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Lindir wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2024 9:09 pm ... I haven’t read the book and I could have done with a bit more explanation as to why things were happening.

... But again, I didn’t have a great overall experience which has probably influenced my feelings on the movie, at least until I see it again. I do want to see it again before it finishes its theatrical run though.
Read the book. Now. Seriously.

I haven't seen Part one or Part Two. I read Dune only once and that was in 1977.
I decided I'm going to re-read it before I watch the DV movies.
(And I've never seen the David Lynch version, or any other previous dramatization of it.)

"Eternity is an awful long time, especially towards the end."

"What you see and what you hear depends a great deal on where you are standing.
It also depends on what sort of person you are.” -- CSL

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Deimos wrote: Sat Mar 09, 2024 11:31 am
Lindir wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2024 9:09 pm ... I haven’t read the book and I could have done with a bit more explanation as to why things were happening.

... But again, I didn’t have a great overall experience which has probably influenced my feelings on the movie, at least until I see it again. I do want to see it again before it finishes its theatrical run though.
Read the book. Now. Seriously.

I haven't seen Part one or Part Two. I read Dune only once and that was in 1977.
I decided I'm going to re-read it before I watch the DV movies.
(And I've never seen the David Lynch version, or any other previous dramatization of it.)
You should count yourself very fortunate that you never saw the Lynch version. And also the SyFy version, though to a lesser extent than the Lynch version.

I won't be able to see Part 2 till it hits streaming (or disc) but I will say based on Part 1 that the DV version of Dune comes as close as could reasonably be imagined to successfully translating a book as complex as Dune into a movie. Even at 5 hours (for the 2 parts combined), a lot is left out, but what it puts in, works.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

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Olorin wrote: Sat Mar 09, 2024 6:52 pm
You should count yourself very fortunate that you never saw the Lynch version. And also the SyFy version, though to a lesser extent than the Lynch version.
Oh I wouldn't be quite so harsh, personally. Yes there's a lot of wacky stuff in the '84 movie, and it is clearly a product of its time, but there is a certain beauty and majesty to its grandiose aesthetic, it didn't shy away from tackling some of the weirder aspects of the novel (third stage guild navigators comes to mind), and it actually cleaves a lot closer to the book in a couple of spots than the new one (mainly because the new one omits so much). That goes double for the SyFy version: it clearly suffered from a threadbare budget, but I found lots to like, and it was more faithful to the source material than Lynch, or (I know I'll get crucified for this) even the new one, if only because they had more time to include more.

Obviously, and overall, I prefer DV's version as the definitive cinematic interpretation, but it is not perfect, and there's lots to like about the two previous attempts. At least for me. ;)
This Space for Rent

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Lindir wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2024 9:09 pm I saw this the day it opened here in the UK.

I had one of the worst experiences in a theatre I’ve had. Usually I love seeing movies on the big screen but I’d had a bad day at work, I was tired and really my mind wasn’t ready for Dune.

Throughout the movie I was kicked repeatedly in the back, people were fidgeting and rustling papers and food packets, talking, etc

So it wasn’t great.

I left the movie feeling meh. I do want to see it again but I feel like Dune part 2 felt more shallow than the first instalment. Also the pacing was weird. The ending felt very very rushed and anti climactic. I haven’t read the book and I could have done with a bit more explanation as to why things were happening.

I understand - just through reading discussions online - that the moral of Dune is really a warning against Messiah figures.

But he’s very hesitant about accepting his path and then at one point he just accepts it and becomes everything he didn’t want to be.

I think the first part handled the visions much better as I really felt like I understood what was being conveyed through those.

I also didn’t feel like there were any real standout moments. Maybe this was because of the pacing. But I remember being blown away by the space visuals in the first movie, the Bene Gesserit landing on Caladan and the entire sequence where we first see a sandworm attack the sand crawler.

The arena battle with Feyd Rautha was cool but the majority of it had been seen in the trailers.

Emperor Shaddam’s scenes were pretty much all in the trailer as were the Princesses. Those were two characters I was looking forward to and who I feel really should have been expanded.

I want to see more about the court politics. I understand in the Dune universe the politics is much more feudalistic but seeing some of it would have been great.

But again, I didn’t have a great overall experience which has probably influenced my feelings on the movie, at least until I see it again. I do want to see it again before it finishes its theatrical run though.
I didn't read your post after you got into movie detail territory because I don't want it spoiled for me but I can respond to the earlier portion of your post. What disappointment! It probably isn't great to go into a movie tired and crabby but I imagine you thought this would turn you around. It's too bad that the other people in the theater were such self-absorbed cads. I'm guessing the one kicking the back of your seat was a kid? Bad as that would be, it'd be inexcusable if it were an adult. I once sat through a concert with the kid behind me kicking my seat. I don't recall if it was continuous...it was many years ago...but there was a lot of it. I wanted to turn around and say something but any more you run the risk of triggering mother bear syndrome if you suggest that their little angel is not a little angel. And as for paper rustling, talking, etc., yeah people can be jerks. I sat through a movie once where a guy took not one but two phone calls and talked loudly just like he was in his own living room. Where the hell were the ushers? Of course, the underpaid high school kids who are ushers these days probably would've been afraid to do anything. Another time, my cousin and I were seeing one of those Paranormal Activity movies and some kid in the next row was surfing his phone, which was distracting. My cousin slapped the back of the kid's seat loudly and asked him to put it away...scared the bejibbers out of him! But my most recent movie aggravation was seeing a movie with a friend who felt compelled to eat an entire bag of candy, one piece at a time, rustling the bag each time, over a span of about an hour. It turned out to be a crappy movie anyway, but that did not make it any better. I didn't say anything to her because it would either have made her very defensive or very guilty feeling...no middle ground.

In any case, whenever I may feel inclined to regret all I'm missing out on now because Covid has probably permanently banned me from public events, I just need to remind myself of things like this to feel better about waiting till I can see it at home.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

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Valkrist wrote: Sat Mar 09, 2024 7:05 pm
Olorin wrote: Sat Mar 09, 2024 6:52 pm
You should count yourself very fortunate that you never saw the Lynch version. And also the SyFy version, though to a lesser extent than the Lynch version.
Oh I wouldn't be quite so harsh, personally. Yes there's a lot of wacky stuff in the '84 movie, and it is clearly a product of its time, but there is a certain beauty and majesty to its grandiose aesthetic, it didn't shy away from tackling some of the weirder aspects of the novel (third stage guild navigators comes to mind), and it actually cleaves a lot closer to the book in a couple of spots than the new one (mainly because the new one omits so much). That goes double for the SyFy version: it clearly suffered from a threadbare budget, but I found lots to like, and it was more faithful to the source material than Lynch, or (I know I'll get crucified for this) even the new one, if only because they had more time to include more.

Obviously, and overall, I prefer DV's version as the definitive cinematic interpretation, but it is not perfect, and there's lots to like about the two previous attempts. At least for me. ;)
I was pretty sure you'd leap to the defense of the other two adaptations; I just didn't realized it'd be almost instantaneous, LOL. 8-)

The Lynch version is close to indefensible IMHO. I suppose it does deserve some kudos for trying to provide the inner monologues, though clunkily handled. And the "Prophecy Theme" that Brian Eno did for the soundtrack was a sublime moment. But on the whole, it was close to a train wreck. I know I've told these two stories before but it a) caused the friend I saw it with to coin the phrase "suck like Dune" and b) me to break my foot, most unnecessarily, running across a parking lot because we were running late.

The SyFy version had a decent script, as I recall, but it was lacking in every other way. And I seem to recall the Bene Gesserit all looked like the Flying Nun!

I think one thing every version gets wrong is the still suits. I guess there's no way you're going to hire A-list actors and totally obscure their faces under the costume, but every time I see the suits in one of these adaptations, I know they're not right.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

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Speaking of Dune, I gather that the streaming series has had its name changed from Dune: The Sisterhood to Dune: Prophecy. Supposedly it will premiere late this year but given the development hell it's been in, I'm going to consider it vaporware until I see it appear on my screen.

Is it based on the Brian Herbert/Kevin Anderson book? If so I wonder how closely it will adapt it. Not that I've read it.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

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Valkrist wrote: Sat Mar 09, 2024 7:05 pm Oh I wouldn't be quite so harsh, personally. Yes there's a lot of wacky stuff in the '84 movie, and it is clearly a product of its time, but there is a certain beauty and majesty to its grandiose aesthetic
Definitely. There are parts of that film I love hate. Overall what was released was a complete failure, and Lynch agrees, but it had it's moments of brilliance.

I remember reading back then that it was originally going to be two films, then it was condensed into what would have been a single three hour film. Even if Lynch had been able to finish and release that version, I'm not sure it would have been able to keep enough of the book story to work. What we got in those extended tv cuts that he was not involved with was just a mess.

Even though Lynch has always said Dune was a depressing and sickening experience, a couple of years ago he actually entertained the idea of revisiting Dune and making his true directors cut. No news since then, so I doubt it will ever happen, but I would still love to see what he intended.
KRDS

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Olorin wrote: Sat Mar 09, 2024 7:28 pm Speaking of Dune, I gather that the streaming series has had its name changed from Dune: The Sisterhood to Dune: Prophecy. Supposedly it will premiere late this year but given the development hell it's been in, I'm going to consider it vaporware until I see it appear on my screen.

Is it based on the Brian Herbert/Kevin Anderson book? If so I wonder how closely it will adapt it. Not that I've read it.
I don't think it is anymore, which is probably a good thing. I have read a few of their Dune books. Uhg. The show does have some of same character names they used in Dune: Sisterhood.
KRDS

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I haven't actually talked to very many people who have either read the Anderson/Brian Herbert books or posted videos about them on YouTube, but the very limited sampling I do have suggest they are not very good. I actually read one of them, the machine crusade, I believe And thought it was OK. I thought the story was interesting, but it was a bit of a drudge to read, and it just never encouraged me to read any of the others.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

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I read Machine Crusade and the other two books in that trilogy, as Herbert and Anderson said it helped to read those books before reading their two Dune sequels that were supposed to take up where Herbert's last book left off, finishing his story. They were not terrible, but they were not particularly good either. I also have doubts that any of what they wrote was based on the supposed "outline" they found of Herbert wrote before his death that explained where the story was going.

After getting through that slog, my brother talked me into reading one of their other expanded Dune books - can't remember which one - and I vowed never again. They seemed to get worse with each new novel.
KRDS

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Nasnandos wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2024 2:55 pm I read Machine Crusade and the other two books in that trilogy, as Herbert and Anderson said it helped to read those books before reading their two Dune sequels that were supposed to take up where Herbert's last book left off, finishing his story. They were not terrible, but they were not particularly good either. I also have doubts that any of what they wrote was based on the supposed "outline" they found of Herbert wrote before his death that explained where the story was going.

After getting through that slog, my brother talked me into reading one of their other expanded Dune books - can't remember which one - and I vowed never again. They seemed to get worse with each new novel.
I often wonder how detailed or developed the "notes" are that authors leave about next novels. The prime example of this in some ways would be George RR Martin and the notes he gave Weiss and Benioff for the wrap-up of Game of Thrones. I guess that's "prime" in the context of the backlash the final seasons generated (and this is certainly not intended to reignite that topic here) but an outlier in the sense that Martin is actually still alive and could have answered any questions that arose.

Asimov supposedly left notes about where he intended his Foundation books to go, and the showrunners for that show have access to those. In that instance, I don't think it makes much difference how detailed any notes Asimov left may be, as the show plays such jazz with the published books that there would be little difference in the show whether his notes were detailed or a just few bullet points.

And lastly, the Duniverse. Whatever notes Frank Herbert left, his son and son's coauthor have certainly managed to parlay into quite the cottage industry. How many books have they written? Like 20? I can imagine that maybe the old man left some notes for the 7th book, but that's about it. Maybe a sidebar also about hmmm, need to give some backstory on the Butlerian Jihad. It's a little sad, I guess, that on such basis, they managed to churn out such a progression of crap cash-ins. But as far as that goes, and here may be heresy, I felt most of the sequels that Frank Herbert wrote were not worth reading, or at least were, on balance, negative, as I found them depressing. Interestingly, just last night I watched a video on YouTube by some guy who reviews and comments on sci fi books and he thumbnailed this video with "do the Dune sequels suck?" The cliffnotes version: in his opinion, they definitely don't suck, but they are not for everyone and there is a principle of diminishing returns at play as the series progresses.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

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Olorin wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2024 12:09 pm Whatever notes Frank Herbert left, his son and son's coauthor have certainly managed to parlay into quite the cottage industry.
I don't think Frank's Dune 7 notes really were much of anything, or if they were, I don't think they were followed. I just can't see Frank coming up with any of those ham fisted plot lines Brian and Kevin came up with, especially the parts that contradict what Frank wrote. Many years ago I was at a con where Kevin was doing a reading. I asked him how much of the plot Frank actually had written down for Dune 7. He said something about there not really being a plot or story notes as such, just an idea of where Frank may have been going with it. Very vague answers, but their second "Dune 7" book had not come out yet, so maybe he just did not want to talk about it. Then a few years later he did an interview where he said they did have Frank's full and complete outline. Of course, that outline has never been released or published anywhere in all this time, so who knows.
Olorin wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2024 12:09 pm I felt most of the sequels that Frank Herbert wrote were not worth reading, or at least were, on balance, negative, as I found them depressing.
I loved them all, but I don't really view anything in Dune as negative or depressing. Well, Dune Messiah was a downer, but it needed to be. The first three books are really all one story to me, and Herbert wrote them simultaneously with Dune. God Emperor of Dune is my favorite in the series. I think I have re-read that one as many times as I have Dune.

The last two Frank wrote were an interesting start to something new, but sadly, we will never know how that trilogy was really supposed to end.
Last edited by Nasnandos on Tue Mar 12, 2024 2:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
KRDS
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