Re: United Cutlery's - The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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N2darkness wrote: Tue Dec 28, 2021 7:07 am When you say "tooling" is that the molds for the cast metal parts (hilt and pommel)?
...and the blade and grip. Everything is slightly different from the main hero prop, so they would have to make new tooling for every part. They already did that once for the MC version, so they are not going to do it again.
N2darkness wrote: Tue Dec 28, 2021 7:07 am Also, are all the UC blades CNC made? cut, milled or ground? You had mentioned that Anduril's fuller couldn't be made longer due to the capabilities of the machine, which I assume is a mill. If things were done by hand there wouldn't be a limitation, but price of labor would be very expensive. I ask because of the bevels on the Sting blade could go down to the hilt further, but if that is also a limitation it is understandable.
Fullers are milled, but the blades are blanked out of sheet stock. Picture a large steel cookie cutter attached to a 200 ton hammer press, but instead of a flat sheet of cookie dough being blanked out, it's 5 or 6mm thick sheet of steel.

Those blanks are run though a computer controlled grinder that cuts the hollow grinds into the steel. Those grinders have limitations in the grind paths that can be programmed into them, especially how small a radius can be at the end of a hollow grind. That's why they cannot exactly match the radius of the Sting movie prop grinds near the hilt.

The fullers are cut into the blade blanks with CNC milling machines. Those have a limit on the length of blade that can be fit into the machine, but UC can do longer fullers with the machines they have now. After this stage the basic blade shape is there, but the surface needs a lot of work.

The surface polish for the whole blade is done hand-held on a series of different types of belt grinders. Same with the cutting edge grinds. Some minor blade shaping is done in this stage as well, but its mostly the final surface finish that is done by hand like that.

That's basically how most of the LOTR blades are made. The new MC Anduril will be slightly different because those blades will be made in UC's forging factory, but there is still a lot of machine grinding done.
KRDS

Re: United Cutlery's - The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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Nasnandos wrote: Tue Dec 28, 2021 7:55 am Fullers are milled, but the blades are blanked out of sheet stock. Picture a large steel cookie cutter attached to a 200 ton hammer press, but instead of a flat sheet of cookie dough being blanked out, it's 5 or 6mm thick sheet of steel.

Those blanks are run though a computer controlled grinder that cuts the hollow grinds into the steel. Those grinders have limitations in the grind paths that can be programmed into them, especially how small a radius can be at the end of a hollow grind. That's why they cannot exactly match the radius of the Sting movie prop grinds near the hilt.

The fullers are cut into the blade blanks with CNC milling machines. Those have a limit on the length of blade that can be fit into the machine, but UC can do longer fullers with the machines they have now. After this stage the basic blade shape is there, but the surface needs a lot of work.

The surface polish for the whole blade is done hand-held on a series of different types of belt grinders. Same with the cutting edge grinds. Some minor blade shaping is done in this stage as well, but its mostly the final surface finish that is done by hand like that.

That's basically how most of the LOTR blades are made. The new MC Anduril will be slightly different because those blades will be made in UC's forging factory, but there is still a lot of machine grinding done.
Wow, thanks for the manufacturing process info. I would have never have guessed that the blades were die stamped and just assumed they were CNC plasma cut. But probably much cheaper to stamp them when making hundreds at a time.

Then knowing all of the machine limitations when designing each new piece has to be a lot to consider and still get to as close as the original prop as you can. Totally explains why it takes so long to design, tool, machine and produce an item as well as the upfront costs to do so.

I'm sure a lot of these manufacturing processes are proprietary, but it would be really awesome to see a video of a sword being produced in the factory. I'm sure a lot of customers would appreciate all the work that goes into making one of our replicas.

Re: United Cutlery's - The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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That's an awesome idea, if UC ever considered doing one of those "How it's made" documentaries on a LOTR collectible blade.

Probably not something they would be interested in, and you have to wonder if there is something in there they'd rather not show for some reason, but it would be a fascinating look at the process that I think would delight hundreds, if not thousands of their customers. I would start with Kit at his computer and the actual prop next to him, and end with a happy collector unboxing a replica of that same sword in their home. How cool would that be? :)

Now comes the part where Kit tells me he's done it before. :lol:
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Re: United Cutlery's - The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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I have probably posted pictures before, but I don't think I have ever posted any video anywhere. Honestly, it would be kind of boring. The casting factory making the hilt parts is kind of interesting, but once a blade is mounted in the hollow grinder, you can't really even see what is happening in those machines. The machine housing covers up the grinding wheels running and the cooling water jets cover everything where you can see inside the open machines, so you don't really see the actual grinding happening.

Some of the smaller blades, like the Legolas knives, are hand-held in a grinder like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F58c5-fbF1w

But the larger sword blade are done in a machine similar to this, but much larger.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgFNnNX0xY0

The hand finishing part is an assembly line where one person does the flat blade parts, another does the hollow grinds, another the spines, et cetera. It's putting me sleep just typing about it.

Now the forging factory making forged blades - that's where the fun stuff to watch happens.
KRDS

Re: United Cutlery's - The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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Nasnandos wrote: Tue Dec 28, 2021 12:22 pm I have probably posted pictures before, but I don't think I have ever posted any video anywhere. Honestly, it would be kind of boring. The casting factory making the hilt parts is kind of interesting, but once a blade is mounted in the hollow grinder, you can't really even see what is happening in those machines. The machine housing covers up the grinding wheels running and the cooling water jets cover everything where you can see inside the open machines, so you don't really see the actual grinding happening.

Some of the smaller blades, like the Legolas knives, are hand-held in a grinder like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F58c5-fbF1w

But the larger sword blade are done in a machine similar to this, but much larger.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgFNnNX0xY0

The hand finishing part is an assembly line where one person does the flat blade parts, another does the hollow grinds, another the spines, et cetera. It's putting me sleep just typing about it.

Now the forging factory making forged blades - that's where the fun stuff to watch happens.
I was a QC technician at a small machine shop where they ran CNC screw machine lathes (a lot like the video you linked to) and yes it gets boring real quick to watch as they are behind plastic doors and coolant. They also did injection molding of plastic which is more interesting to see, and probably close to metal casting.

But I can imaging that forging blades is a lot cooler to see.

I've watched this Weta video with Peter Lyon about a dozen times, but it shows some of the processes he goes into a stock removal blade. A very time consuming process and impossible to do for a manufactured sword.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oVNnKkSC7I

Re: United Cutlery's - The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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Nasnandos wrote: Tue Dec 28, 2021 7:32 am I did ask that they use the correct one for the standard version going forward, but I don't know when that will happen.
Thanks :D Hopefully it happens in the near future.
Nasnandos wrote: Tue Dec 28, 2021 7:55 am Fullers are milled, but the blades are blanked out of sheet stock. Picture a large steel cookie cutter attached to a 200 ton hammer press, but instead of a flat sheet of cookie dough being blanked out, it's 5 or 6mm thick sheet of steel.
Yes. I also thought that the shape was made by plasma or CNC cutting. I did not imagine that it was by stamping, I did not even imagine that stamping was possible in those thicknesses of steel.
N2darkness wrote: Tue Dec 28, 2021 12:47 pm But I can imaging that forging blades is a lot cooler to see.

I've watched this Weta video with Peter Lyon about a dozen times, but it shows some of the processes he goes into a stock removal blade. A very time consuming process and impossible to do for a manufactured sword.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oVNnKkSC7I
Yes, I have long time liked to watch videos of sword forging ...it has something immotic. There is quite a bit of interesting content on YouTube about it.

Thanks for the video. I haven't seen it in a long time, didn't even remember it. I've seen it again now. :)

Re: United Cutlery's - The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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N2darkness wrote: Tue Dec 28, 2021 12:47 pm I've watched this Weta video with Peter Lyon about a dozen times, but it shows some of the processes he goes into a stock removal blade. A very time consuming process and impossible to do for a manufactured sword.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oVNnKkSC7I
That reminds me of this video of Peter Lyon showing Adam Savage how to grind a Strider sword blade to fit a United Cutlery hilt. He explains a lot to Adam about making a proper, functional sword blade with a distal taper, vs a factory made blade. It's fun watching them look over my version of the hilt construction and trying to get a hand made blade to fit it and make the threaded tang fit the existing pommel tap.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCi5usulDIo

I cringed when Adam started polishing the United parts with a scotchbrite pad trying to get them more shiny looking. I don't think either of them realized that zinc is always plated to look like steel. I think Adam polished through the clear coating into the plating and messed it up, because later he takes all the parts on a belt sander and strips all the plating off. I don't think either of them realize that the raw zinc will oxidize without a coating.
KRDS

Re: United Cutlery's - The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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Nasnandos wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 6:11 am That reminds me of this video of Peter Lyon showing Adam Savage how to grind a Strider sword blade to fit a United Cutlery hilt. He explains a lot to Adam about making a proper, functional sword blade with a distal taper, vs a factory made blade. It's fun watching them look over my version of the hilt construction and trying to get a hand made blade to fit it and make the threaded tang fit the existing pommel tap.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCi5usulDIo

I cringed when Adam started polishing the United parts with a scotchbrite pad trying to get them more shiny looking. I don't think either of them realized that zinc is always plated to look like steel. I think Adam polished through the clear coating into the plating and messed it up, because later he takes all the parts on a belt sander and strips all the plating off. I don't think either of them realize that the raw zinc will oxidize without a coating.
I've watched that video many times as well as Adam's Excalibur replica build and his other trip to Weta to produce a short film and makes a dagger with Peter Lyon.

I've been going down a rabbit hole investigating different linishers and belt grinders, contact wheel sizes and fuller attachments to possibly try my hand at stock removal sword replicas. The equipment isn't cheap so I want to know what to get to try and recreate Peter's style of deep hollow grinds and all of these videos have been very helpful.

Re: United Cutlery's - The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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Just a note, we have Eomer's spear up for pre-order finally!

https://castlekon.com/product/eomerspear

Small website update. I am trying very hard to update all the shipping tables for 2022. I have talked with multiple people at UC and no one has shipping dimensions yet. As such, we have estimated the shipping and have updated everything we can to be accurate. However, note as we learn more extra shipping may be required, or if shipping costs end up less, as ALWAYS we refund you the difference.

We also got a big order from UC in this weekend. We are still working on sorting inventory and shipping orders that were placed in the past three weeks. Please be patient. Again, I am only one person and this is not my full time job in the slightest.
"As the light upon the leaves of trees, as the voice of clear waters, as the stars above the mists of the world, such was her glory and her loveliness; and in her face was a shining light."

Re: United Cutlery's - The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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Kit, I know you typically only receive these at the same time as the general public, but were you able to test a prototype with the plaque on wall? I know this seems like an odd question, and though the spear head is resin and not metal, replicas like this tend to be top-heavy, so I'm curious at to whether the spear will lean forward. What I mean by this is, the head will act as a counter-weight to the lighter end, causing the spear to lean, and the butt of the spear to rest against the wall. Of course, this will only happen if the spear is actually hanging above the floor rather than on top of it. This is the reason I measure all my UC and Weta staves carefully before mounting the plaque, and all of them are supported by the floor as well as the plaque. Thoughts?
This Space for Rent

Re: United Cutlery's - The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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Valkrist wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:44 am I'm curious at to whether the spear will lean forward.
I almost never use them for display myself, but I always test the factory prototype and production displays of everything that I design or work on.

The spears were all evenly balanced and rested nearly parallel to the wall on the two prototype stands I tested. Polyresin castings vary though, so I'm sure some may tilt more than others depending on the tolerance for the two arms that hold it. Even on the high side, I doubt any casting deflection would be enough for the bottom of the shaft to touch the wall.
KRDS

Re: United Cutlery's - LOTR & The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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Just finished watching the LOTR Trilogy a couple days ago (it's been over a year since i've seen them last... and that's just not right :O ). So it got me excited again for the upcoming pieces!

MC Anduril - I commented on it's thread.

Blue Sting - i did not know the newer Stings have replaced the wooden handles for plastic ones?? If that's the case, i may second guess the Blue Blade Sting. Could anyone with a Newer Sting please let me know if they're still made in Taiwan, or now China? I'm just wondering if the change from wood to plastic coincided if the production moved countries?

Eomer's Spear - probably pass... I try to avoid PolyResin as much as possible (it's just not my cup of tea). I still need to pick up an UC Guthwine.... 2021 was not a very good collecting year.

I was very disappointed to hear about the Sauron Mace, and UC making more of a Sold Out Limited Edition. Val covered my thoughts on the matter a page or two back, so I won't drag it out again. I'm just worried what this might mean for other LE pieces once sold out? That being said, i fully agree with UC's decision to no longer make Limited Editions going forward.

While watching the movie - I would REALLY like replicas of the Fountain Guard Helm & Pole Arm (if they're metal lol). Completely forgot how beautiful that pole arm is.
"Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum!"

Re: United Cutlery's - LOTR & The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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Ugh... Sting has a plastic handle now?!?

I read elsewhere that someone noticed on the BudK page for Legolas Knives that the handles for those are now resin and not wood anymore. Is this true? I get the need to reduce costs but it's getting to the point that replicas are becoming so far removed from their 'real world' materials construction that they're becoming almost like pointless toys at this point. Very disappointing.
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Re: United Cutlery's - LOTR & The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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Valkrist wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:36 pm Ugh... Sting has a plastic handle now?!?

I read elsewhere that someone noticed on the BudK page for Legolas Knives that the handles for those are now resin and not wood anymore. Is this true? I get the need to reduce costs but it's getting to the point that replicas are becoming so far removed from their 'real world' materials construction that they're becoming almost like pointless toys at this point. Very disappointing.
Sting - it's not listed on BudK (either the LOTR or Hobbit versions), nor the Hobbit version on UC's website. But, on UC's LOTR Sting, "Plastic handle".

Wait... Legolas Knives are polyresin now?! I did not know that! And, just checked, they are now listed as, "Handcrafted polyresin handles".
"Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum!"

Re: United Cutlery's - LOTR & The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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Jash wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:52 pm
Sting - it's not listed on BudK (either the LOTR or Hobbit versions), nor the Hobbit version on UC's website. But, on UC's LOTR Sting, "Plastic handle".

Wait... Legolas Knives are polyresin now?! I did not know that! And, just checked, they are now listed as, "Handcrafted polyresin handles".
That's just terrible, on both counts. What's next? Foam blades?!?

Will just make me treasure my original Sting and Legolas Knives... before Kit pops in and bursts my bubble to say those were never wood either. xP
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Re: United Cutlery's - LOTR & The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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I'm pretty sure this has already been discussed here, several times over the last 10 years. The Sting wood handles were changed to injection molded parts with wood grain overlays to keep the cost from going up. I don't recall the exact material used, but it was some type of polycarbonate, not resin. This was done way back in 2012 when The Hobbit version was made. I think posted this photo of the test handles here at the time.

Image


It has not been possible to make them in wood and keep the cost anywhere near reasonable for many years now, but there were also other issues that drove the change, like keeping a reliable source of stabilized wood that would not crack over time. The Legolas knife handles were the last holdout, but those were changed about 5 years ago. An injection mold for the Strider Elven knife handle is currently being retooled for a possible reissue of that knife too.

The only one that has not been changed yet is the Arwen sword, because they had a large stock of rosewood handles that lasted several production runs. The originals were beech wood or tung oil wood, but the cost skrocketed and the quality became too unreliable. I had them test a heavy bamboo wood that is relatively stable inexpensive, but it did not look good.
KRDS

Re: United Cutlery's - LOTR & The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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Oh, my apologies. I don't recall that conversation at all. This forum is such a wealth of knowledge... and my aging brain can only hold so much lol. I shall cherish my older replicas all that much more now.

I just purchased an older LOTR Sting from a seller via only 3 bad quality pictures. Fingers crossed it's an older wood version. But knowing me, I might not be able to tell regardless haha
"Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum!"

Re: United Cutlery's - LOTR & The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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Jash wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:52 pm
Valkrist wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 3:36 pm Ugh... Sting has a plastic handle now?!?

I read elsewhere that someone noticed on the BudK page for Legolas Knives that the handles for those are now resin and not wood anymore. Is this true? I get the need to reduce costs but it's getting to the point that replicas are becoming so far removed from their 'real world' materials construction that they're becoming almost like pointless toys at this point. Very disappointing.
Sting - it's not listed on BudK (either the LOTR or Hobbit versions), nor the Hobbit version on UC's website. But, on UC's LOTR Sting, "Plastic handle".

Wait... Legolas Knives are polyresin now?! I did not know that! And, just checked, they are now listed as, "Handcrafted polyresin handles".
Yes, I suspected it from the moment I took my new reissues out of the box. Despite the fact that at that time the UC website still listed hard wood and just like what it says in the description of the boxes, it was evident that it was not wood.

Post some photos from Legolas knifes handle in the facebook group on your day:

Image


In the photos you can see a little of the seam of the mold, which is especially noticeable to the touch. It also has quite a hole in the joint with the pommel.
Nasnandos wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:18 am I'm pretty sure this has already been discussed here, several times over the last 10 years. The Sting wood handles were changed to injection molded parts with wood grain overlays to keep the cost from going up. I don't recall the exact material used, but it was some type of polycarbonate, not resin. This was done way back in 2012 when The Hobbit version was made. I think posted this photo of the test handles here at the time.

Image


It has not been possible to make them in wood and keep the cost anywhere near reasonable for many years now, but there were also other issues that drove the change, like keeping a reliable source of stabilized wood that would not crack over time. The Legolas knife handles were the last holdout, but those were changed about 5 years ago. An injection mold for the Strider Elven knife handle is currently being retooled for a possible reissue of that knife too.

The only one that has not been changed yet is the Arwen sword, because they had a large stock of rosewood handles that lasted several production runs. The originals were beech wood or tung oil wood, but the cost skrocketed and the quality became too unreliable. I had them test a heavy bamboo wood that is relatively stable inexpensive, but it did not look good.
Thanks for confirming it Kit, you are the only one who has confirmed that it really is not wood. Now it already puts it on the web, but when I bought and ask on social media, nobody confirmed it.

I also have the two stings with plastic handles and I will buy the Strider Elven Knife when they reissue it because I don't have it yet, so the only one with a wooden handle that I will finally have will be Hadhafang.

Too bad I couldn't start collecting at the time when all the handles were made of wood.

I try to look on the bright side, these plastic handles will outlast me, without any care and will never crack, as i have seen it happen especially with some Strider Knives, as Kit comments.

In a certain way, It is quite successful because makes you doubt... It makes you suspect that it is not wood only when you touch it or look at it very closely.

Maybe one day if I get crazy, and if with personal projects I gain the necessary skills, I would do make them wooden handles myself with the vines inlay in real metal...although I don't think I'd dare to ruin them by taking them apart, the pommels seem firmly glued.

Re: United Cutlery's - LOTR & The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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So ( I am wondering half aloud) will my wood handled Strider knife be worth more (or less) when I go to sell it? The handle has cracked....I will probably fill the crack with a dark resin.
Years ago (at least 10) I decided I was going to sell it because I've never really cared for it.
Late in 2004 I discovered the collecting world of LOTR (Heck I discovered the collecting world in general) and went through a kind of LOTR "complete-est" frenzy for all the available [good-guy] weapons.
Strider's knife was available but I can recall myself thinking even then, "I don't know that I really care for it...should I buy it?"
I decided to take the leap, thinking I could always sell it later if/when I got tired of it.
I paid around $130 for it ....It's probably my least favorite LOTR weapon of that original "complete-est" purchase.


"Unless you're prepared to surrender everything, don't surrender anything."

When seconds matter, it's reassuring to know that the police are only minutes away.

"Only the paranoid survive."

Re: United Cutlery's - LOTR & The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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Nasnandos wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:18 am I'm pretty sure this has already been discussed here, several times over the last 10 years. The Sting wood handles were changed to injection molded parts with wood grain overlays to keep the cost from going up. I don't recall the exact material used, but it was some type of polycarbonate, not resin. This was done way back in 2012 when The Hobbit version was made. I think posted this photo of the test handles here at the time.

Image


It has not been possible to make them in wood and keep the cost anywhere near reasonable for many years now, but there were also other issues that drove the change, like keeping a reliable source of stabilized wood that would not crack over time. The Legolas knife handles were the last holdout, but those were changed about 5 years ago. An injection mold for the Strider Elven knife handle is currently being retooled for a possible reissue of that knife too.

The only one that has not been changed yet is the Arwen sword, because they had a large stock of rosewood handles that lasted several production runs. The originals were beech wood or tung oil wood, but the cost skrocketed and the quality became too unreliable. I had them test a heavy bamboo wood that is relatively stable inexpensive, but it did not look good.
How it Sting held together out of curiousity? I expect to see a bolt here. Is the blade just epoxied in? Thanks
20220116_174409.jpg
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Re: United Cutlery's - LOTR & The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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So I guess the new United catalog also came out today with pictures of Eomer's scabbard to be released this year. I somehow didn't think it was this far ahead unless it is just an artist rendering (probably) and also no mention of MC Anduril which is already up for pre-order. Theodred's sword is also mentioned as it should be a fairly quick build.
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Re: United Cutlery's - LOTR & The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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Kit - sorry to change topics... but is there any (newer) interest at all from UC to complete the Barrow Blades? Reason I ask is I may have found someone willing to custom make the 3 for me... but, obviously I'd prefer official replicas to match my Sam's Sword.
Or - any (newer) interest in making anything for Merry & Pippin? lol

I've come across a few pics of the Weta Barrow Blades online. Does anyone know where I could find dimensions? Cheers!
"Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum!"

Re: United Cutlery's - LOTR & The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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Jash wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 4:44 pm Kit - sorry to change topics... but is there any (newer) interest at all from UC to complete the Barrow Blades? Reason I ask is I may have found someone willing to custom make the 3 for me... but, obviously I'd prefer official replicas to match my Sam's Sword.
Or - any (newer) interest in making anything for Merry & Pippin? lol

I've come across a few pics of the Weta Barrow Blades online. Does anyone know where I could find dimensions? Cheers!
I've been looking into the same thing and even wanting to making my own out of steel.

The decent resolution Weta pic has the swords all sized the same and actually not great to go by.
LOTR-FOTR-PRODUCT-WEP-FAN009.jpg
This other one is pretty good as is shows the relative size difference and if you have and measure Sam's sword you should be able to get the overall dimensions of the other 3.
HOBBIT SWORDS.jpg
There was also 2 different scales made for these as well seen here.
wetaworkshop_08_018.jpg
wetaworkshop_08_017.jpg
Here I printed out the fullsize versions next to the UC Sam sword.
2022-01-11 14.31.35.jpg
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Last edited by N2darkness on Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: United Cutlery's - LOTR & The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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Thanks N2darkness for the photos, especially for the size comparison. I would love to see the ones that you have already made in steel, I will look to see if you have posted a photo on instagram.

Jash, I have also thought that if in a few years UC does not release them, I would try to make them myself... and I'd try it on steel... although first I have to finish quite a few projects and above all I have to buy necessary tools (like a good belt sander to make the fullers)

I had saved some photos for reference as well, which although they are not good for taking measurements, they can be used to deduce the depth of the fullers and the thickness of the blades (because of the angle of the photos):

Image
Image
Image


Although these are also custom and I don't know how exact their dimensions will be.
Valkrist wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:52 pm Jash, just for the record: I highly resent you calling these "Barrow blades". They are no such thing. Stop it at once. :club:
Yes, they are not the barrows blades... unless... Aragorn, in the movies, went through the barrows before meeting the hobbits and was keeping for them... :P just kidding, you're right, we not should call them that. It has nothing to do with the description of the books. The barrows I think was the part of the books that I missed the most when I saw the movie, although I understood that they removed it because Tom Bombadil.

Re: United Cutlery's - LOTR & The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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XerachCruz wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:29 am Thanks N2darkness for the photos, especially for the size comparison. I would love to see the ones that you have already made in steel, I will look to see if you have posted a photo on instagram.
Sorry, if I misled you. I have not made them yet and just starting the early planning and gathering supplies and equipment stage. Will post more once I have something worth showing!

Re: United Cutlery's - LOTR & The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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N2darkness wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:44 am
XerachCruz wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:29 am Thanks N2darkness for the photos, especially for the size comparison. I would love to see the ones that you have already made in steel, I will look to see if you have posted a photo on instagram.
Sorry, if I misled you. I have not made them yet and just starting the early planning and gathering supplies and equipment stage. Will post more once I have something worth showing!
Oh OK!. Sorry. Is my fault, I misunderstood. :oops: When I translating sometimes make a mess if i do it only with my mind, I need re-check with the translator habitually.

Then, I am looking forward to following the process from the beginning. I will follow your posts. :D

Re: United Cutlery's - LOTR & The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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XerachCruz wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:29 am Thanks N2darkness for the photos, especially for the size comparison. I would love to see the ones that you have already made in steel, I will look to see if you have posted a photo on instagram.

Jash, I have also thought that if in a few years UC does not release them, I would try to make them myself... and I'd try it on steel... although first I have to finish quite a few projects and above all I have to buy necessary tools (like a good belt sander to make the fullers)

I had saved some photos for reference as well, which although they are not good for taking measurements, they can be used to deduce the depth of the fullers and the thickness of the blades (because of the angle of the photos):

Image
Image
Image


Although these are also custom and I don't know how exact their dimensions will be.
Valkrist wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:52 pm Jash, just for the record: I highly resent you calling these "Barrow blades". They are no such thing. Stop it at once. :club:
Yes, they are not the barrows blades... unless... Aragorn, in the movies, went through the barrows before meeting the hobbits and was keeping for them... :P just kidding, you're right, we not should call them that. It has nothing to do with the description of the books. The barrows I think was the part of the books that I missed the most when I saw the movie, although I understood that they removed it because Tom Bombadil.
Most people who have been of this forum know where I stand on this.. and once again (@ Val) "I am with you, Gandalf!"
And to add to what Val has already said, "The Barrow Blades were not rusty!" Aaaaarrrrrrggggh!


"Unless you're prepared to surrender everything, don't surrender anything."

When seconds matter, it's reassuring to know that the police are only minutes away.

"Only the paranoid survive."

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Thanks for the backup, Deimos. I know when it's time to roll up some sleeves and get serious,I can always count on you. :thumbs_up

Well, if N2 ever undertakes this project... *AND*... he does a version where the three blades are new and shiny, that would be good enough for me to look the other way .... and buy them! (I know, I know... not red damascus, but it would be a cool mix of book and movies).

Of course, that might force me to have to hunt down the non-MC shiny version of Sam's sword that UC put out years ago, and that's no mean feat.
This Space for Rent

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Valkrist wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:41 pm Thanks for the backup, Deimos. I know when it's time to roll up some sleeves and get serious,I can always count on you. :thumbs_up

Well, if N2 ever undertakes this project... *AND*... he does a version where the three blades are new and shiny, that would be good enough for me to look the other way .... and buy them! (I know, I know... not red damascus, but it would be a cool mix of book and movies).

Of course, that might force me to have to hunt down the non-MC shiny version of Sam's sword that UC put out years ago, and that's no mean feat.
That is the one I bought and then within a month promptly sold to Guardian Wolf for the same price I paid...about $100.
When he asked why I was selling it, I replied, "I thought I wanted it, and then realized that because I knew what those swords really were, I could never see this as a Barrow Blade, shiny or not."
Anyway, what I'm getting at is, maybe ping GW to see if he wants to sell it (if he still has it)


"Unless you're prepared to surrender everything, don't surrender anything."

When seconds matter, it's reassuring to know that the police are only minutes away.

"Only the paranoid survive."

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Deimos wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:50 pm
That is the one I bought and then within a month promptly sold to Guardian Wolf for the same price I paid...about $100.
When he asked why I was selling it, I replied, "I thought I wanted it, and then realized that because I knew what those swords really were, I could never see this as a Barrow Blade, shiny or not."
Anyway, what I'm getting at is, maybe ping GW to see if he wants to sell it (if he still has it)
Thanks for the heads-up. I think he got rid of most of his stuff a few years back, but you never know.

I didn't want anything to do with the shiny one and only bought the MC version because I wanted the weapon as it appeared in the movie, not some version that never existed within the time span of the trilogy. Ironic now, that all after all these years, I would consider hunting it down... but again, only if I had the other three in the same format to go with it.
This Space for Rent

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Valkrist wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:01 pm
Deimos wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:50 pm
That is the one I bought and then within a month promptly sold to Guardian Wolf for the same price I paid...about $100.
When he asked why I was selling it, I replied, "I thought I wanted it, and then realized that because I knew what those swords really were, I could never see this as a Barrow Blade, shiny or not."
Anyway, what I'm getting at is, maybe ping GW to see if he wants to sell it (if he still has it)
Thanks for the heads-up. I think he got rid of most of his stuff a few years back, but you never know.

I didn't want anything to do with the shiny one and only bought the MC version because I wanted the weapon as it appeared in the movie, not some version that never existed within the time span of the trilogy. Ironic now, that all after all these years, I would consider hunting it down... but again, only if I had the other three in the same format to go with it.
Deimos, the Sam's Sword not MC is for sale in stores again. I bought mine in a store in my country just a few months ago, and Castle Kon and BUDk also have them available. :)

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XerachCruz wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:52 am
Valkrist wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:01 pm
Deimos wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:50 pm
That is the one I bought and then within a month promptly sold to Guardian Wolf for the same price I paid...about $100.
When he asked why I was selling it, I replied, "I thought I wanted it, and then realized that because I knew what those swords really were, I could never see this as a Barrow Blade, shiny or not."
Anyway, what I'm getting at is, maybe ping GW to see if he wants to sell it (if he still has it)
Thanks for the heads-up. I think he got rid of most of his stuff a few years back, but you never know.

I didn't want anything to do with the shiny one and only bought the MC version because I wanted the weapon as it appeared in the movie, not some version that never existed within the time span of the trilogy. Ironic now, that all after all these years, I would consider hunting it down... but again, only if I had the other three in the same format to go with it.
Deimos, the Sam's Sword not MC is for sale in stores again. I bought mine in a store in my country just a few months ago, and Castle Kon and BUDk also have them available. :)
I knew one of the Sam swords was being re-issued...just couldn't recall which one. :rolleye:


"Unless you're prepared to surrender everything, don't surrender anything."

When seconds matter, it's reassuring to know that the police are only minutes away.

"Only the paranoid survive."

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XerachCruz wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 1:09 am
Deimos wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:10 pm I knew one of the Sam swords was being re-issued...just couldn't recall which one. :rolleye:
I have been attentive because I have just started my collection recently. :)

I wish they had reissued the MC, it would have been nice to be able to buy it looking the same as it does in the movies. But I'm not complaining, at least I was able to buy the shiny one.
The MC was a limited edition, and as the number was quite small, I'm pretty sure they were all made and sold out. I'm glad it wasn't re-issued because.... well, you already know my feelings on the matter.
This Space for Rent

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Valkrist wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:01 pm
Deimos wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:50 pm
That is the one I bought and then within a month promptly sold to Guardian Wolf for the same price I paid...about $100.
When he asked why I was selling it, I replied, "I thought I wanted it, and then realized that because I knew what those swords really were, I could never see this as a Barrow Blade, shiny or not."
Anyway, what I'm getting at is, maybe ping GW to see if he wants to sell it (if he still has it)
Thanks for the heads-up. I think he got rid of most of his stuff a few years back, but you never know.

I didn't want anything to do with the shiny one and only bought the MC version because I wanted the weapon as it appeared in the movie, not some version that never existed within the time span of the trilogy. Ironic now, that all after all these years, I would consider hunting it down... but again, only if I had the other three in the same format to go with it.
I do still have my Sam Sword, but I'm not looking to unload it, sorry! It's one of the few pieces I display outside my office alongside LOTR Sting. Love the Sam sword, tbh. It's nothing special, but it's Sam's...one of the few things out there that is SAM'S, y'know?

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GuardianWolf wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 10:37 am
Valkrist wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 8:01 pm
Deimos wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 7:50 pm
That is the one I bought and then within a month promptly sold to Guardian Wolf for the same price I paid...about $100.
When he asked why I was selling it, I replied, "I thought I wanted it, and then realized that because I knew what those swords really were, I could never see this as a Barrow Blade, shiny or not."
Anyway, what I'm getting at is, maybe ping GW to see if he wants to sell it (if he still has it)
Thanks for the heads-up. I think he got rid of most of his stuff a few years back, but you never know.

I didn't want anything to do with the shiny one and only bought the MC version because I wanted the weapon as it appeared in the movie, not some version that never existed within the time span of the trilogy. Ironic now, that all after all these years, I would consider hunting it down... but again, only if I had the other three in the same format to go with it.
I do still have my Sam Sword, but I'm not looking to unload it, sorry! It's one of the few pieces I display outside my office alongside LOTR Sting. Love the Sam sword, tbh. It's nothing special, but it's Sam's...one of the few things out there that is SAM'S, y'know?
I know what you mean.
Sam is my absolute-est, favorite-est [human] character in the books and movies.
I have his [book accurate] little box gift from Galadriel, and was making his [hithlain] rope, but that got put on hold.
I'd pay a lot to own his real "Barrow Blade".


"Unless you're prepared to surrender everything, don't surrender anything."

When seconds matter, it's reassuring to know that the police are only minutes away.

"Only the paranoid survive."

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Valkrist wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:42 am The MC was a limited edition, and as the number was quite small, I'm pretty sure they were all made and sold out. I'm glad it wasn't re-issued because.... well, you already know my feelings on the matter.
Well, who knows, maybe in a few years UC will rerelease Sam's Sword like the MC but unlimited. The edition "2nd Breakfast", which includes The Frying Pan. :P

Just kidding. ;) I didn't know that the Sam MCs had a very short run. It must be very difficult to get one now then. One question: Were the blades carbon steel or stainless steel?

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XerachCruz wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:42 pm ...
Yes, Sam is the real hero of the story. :D
It took me a second reading of the entire story to see that.
It hit me, right at the end, when Sam was going into his house.
I remember thinking with sudden surprise: "Why, Sam's the hero! Not Frodo or Aragorn, but Sam!"
Much later when reading "The Letters of JRRT" I learned, when JRRT was asked who the hero of LOTR was --many people arguing for Frodo (mostly) and Aragorn (a close second place)---, had replied flat out, "Sam Gamgee".
(The Gaffer would have been proud :inlove: )


"Unless you're prepared to surrender everything, don't surrender anything."

When seconds matter, it's reassuring to know that the police are only minutes away.

"Only the paranoid survive."

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Thanks for the pictures!

@N2 - Hhmm if i cannot find the actual dimensions, then using Sam's sword and relatively-scaled picture will be a decent Plan B. Greatly appreciate the last picture you shared :) . If you do go ahead and make your own versions, I eagerly await progress pictures! I'm fairly sure the forge I'm looking at will be under the "close enough" category lol.

@Val and Everyone else - I deeply apologize for the words I used and if I offended anyone. I was being "too hasty" in catching up on messages, I just went with the term that came to mind first. But you're correct... I also wouldn't call these "Barrow Blades". Henceforth, I shall try my best-est to call them "Weathertop Blades".

@XerachCruz - I also look forward to your blades if/when you make them! So many talented crafts people on this forum, it's always a pleasure to see your creations. Also, the MC Sam's sword is stainless steel. From what I recall, the only physical difference between the MC and regular versions is the "Battle Worn" finish. I read the leather wrapping on the grip is different, but I do not own both in order to comment on that. It is for that reason I personally don't consider Sam's MC sword a true "Museum Collection" piece (going up against Sting, Glamdring, and now Anduril).

Count me in for a Samwise Battle Worn Frying Pan! Honestly, I was considering picking up a run of the mill Frying Pan to hang alongside Sam's sword when I finalize the display haha.

At first reading of the books I also saw Frodo and Strider as the main heroes. It wasn't until I watched the movies that I changed my mind. The scene near the end where Sam says, "I can't carry it for you, but I can carry you!" hit me hard. It's probably the most powerful part of the entire trilogy for me, so much so that my favourite Sideshow/Weta statue is that exact scene.
"Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum!"

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Jash wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:03 pm Thanks for the pictures!

@N2 - Hhmm if i cannot find the actual dimensions, then using Sam's sword and relatively-scaled picture will be a decent Plan B. Greatly appreciate the last picture you shared :) . If you do go ahead and make your own versions, I eagerly await progress pictures! I'm fairly sure the forge I'm looking at will be under the "close enough" category lol.

@Val and Everyone else - I deeply apologize for the words I used and if I offended anyone. I was being "too hasty" in catching up on messages, I just went with the term that came to mind first. But you're correct... I also wouldn't call these "Barrow Blades". Henceforth, I shall try my best-est to call them "Weathertop Blades".

@XerachCruz - I also look forward to your blades if/when you make them! So many talented crafts people on this forum, it's always a pleasure to see your creations. Also, the MC Sam's sword is stainless steel. From what I recall, the only physical difference between the MC and regular versions is the "Battle Worn" finish. I read the leather wrapping on the grip is different, but I do not own both in order to comment on that. It is for that reason I personally don't consider Sam's MC sword a true "Museum Collection" piece (going up against Sting, Glamdring, and now Anduril).

Count me in for a Samwise Battle Worn Frying Pan! Honestly, I was considering picking up a run of the mill Frying Pan to hang alongside Sam's sword when I finalize the display haha.

At first reading of the books I also saw Frodo and Strider as the main heroes. It wasn't until I watched the movies that I changed my mind. The scene near the end where Sam says, "I can't carry it for you, but I can carry you!" hit me hard. It's probably the most powerful part of the entire trilogy for me, so much so that my favourite Sideshow/Weta statue is that exact scene.
I've been using a program I purchased many years ago called "Big print" and it allows you to scale any image and then measure and print templates. You do need 1 measurement to scale the image though. Here is a link
https://woodgears.ca/bigprint/

I'm still a little ways from starting on any blades, but already purchased a 2x72" grinder and the necessary contact wheels and belts (currently on back order till next month) and now looking for decent material to use. I reached out to Kit for recommendations for prop swords, so hopefully he has some good ideas. As of now I'm only doing stock removal and no forging and not going the route of heat treating or tempering (yet?) as the added equipment involved. Hilts and pommels will be cast pewter and potentially electroplated if needed.

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