Re: LOTR TV adaptation

151
Olorin wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:08 am Answering my own question, the Estate (and there are a few configurations of that) is, in essence, CJRT's widow, eldest son, sister, nephew, and an attorney. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolkien_Estate
Something tells me they don't care nearly as much...

The comment about being thrilled could have the unspoken addendum that it refers to the number of zeros after the first digit on what they are getting out of this. Sad, but likely true. Yes, I'm cynical that way. ;)
This Space for Rent

Re: LOTR TV adaptation

152
CJRT was the sole literary executor and AFAIK no one took that role when he retired. He was the only person who ever played a role in working with JRRT when the latter was alive and writing the books. CJRT cared passionately about his father's literary legacy. So yeah, it's not likely that any of the people in charge now are going to care as much as he did. But they are his wife, his sister, his son, and so forth, and although they're not going to care quite as much, I'd hope that they would not go along with anything that would make CJRT spin in his grave.

But if they do, remember this. Even JRRT, back in the 1960s when he was negotiating the sale of the movie rights, said they if he couldn't get kudos, he'd take cash. Artistic integrity was important to him (and he had a IMHO pretty unrealistic set of rules for any proposed adaptation) but at the end of the day, he was willing to let go of that if he got a big enough payday. He really only had one ultimate rule: Disney must never touch it.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: LOTR TV adaptation

153
What I'm going to say has been said at different times and in different places (even here) so please bear with the repetition (if anyone even remembers the original posts/articles/links).
1)Tolkien sold the rights to his works for (what would come to be known as ) a pittance because he feared falling into penury in his later years, or feared the same for his wife if he predeceased her.
He was paid a goodly amount of money but was hardly made extremely wealthy by it.
2) I can't say for certain what CJRT's widow has thought about it, but we do know that those other relations wanted control of the estate to be able to fund such cash cow projects like a *shudder* theme park.
It is this knowledge (2) that causes in me a sense of foreboding when I hear that those now in control of the estate are happy with the way things are going.
That is, like Val, I am very cynical as to the reason for their approval of the series' progress.
mega $$$$ potentially realized = mega approval


"Unless you're prepared to surrender everything, don't surrender anything."

When seconds matter, it's reassuring to know that the police are only minutes away.

"Only the paranoid survive."

Re: LOTR TV adaptation

157
I only [sort of ] see one Tree (amidst the [kind of] mushroom cloud) .... What am I missing?
(And please don't reply, "The other Tree." :rolleye: )


"Unless you're prepared to surrender everything, don't surrender anything."

When seconds matter, it's reassuring to know that the police are only minutes away.

"Only the paranoid survive."

Re: LOTR TV adaptation

158
Deimos wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:43 pm I only [sort of ] see one Tree (amidst the [kind of] mushroom cloud) .... What am I missing?
(And please don't reply, "The other Tree." :rolleye: )
Above the Wells of Varda (the lake) you should see a dark tree trunk on the left, and the luminous canopy above. Just to the right of that is a second, bright tree trunk with a second canopy above. Not sure which is Laurelin or Telperion, but I'd hazard a guess that the dark trunk is Telperion. All this can only mean the city is Tirion, though I always pictured the pass of the Calacyria to be narrower and the Pelori to either side more prominent.
This Space for Rent

Re: LOTR TV adaptation

159
OK...I see them both....no way would I have spotted the bright one without your help.
Dang... I really have to read the Sil, and sooner rather than later. :rolleye:


"Unless you're prepared to surrender everything, don't surrender anything."

When seconds matter, it's reassuring to know that the police are only minutes away.

"Only the paranoid survive."

Re: LOTR TV adaptation

160
Last night the one ring.net devoted a two hour live stream in analyzing this image. A great deal, perhaps most, of the two hours was debating who the figure in the foreground is. The favorite candidate was Galadriel but one presented said it could be Earendil. If you look closely at the trees, it appears the light is actually the sun. The tree directly in front of it is dark because it is in silhouette and the other one appears bright as it is illuminated by reflected light from the sunward side of the other tree. Another presenter also showed a version of the picture where he had turned the brightness way down, and this was more apparent. So it could well be that this is at the end of the First Age, not pre-First Age, as living trees would imply.

It was generally agreed that this scene is most likely from a prologue. TORN staff also stated that this was definitely from a scene and not just concept art, though they would not reveal how they knew that. They also pointed out that advance images and trailers often contain material that do not make the final cut, so we may not necessarily see this when the show debuts.

One of the guest YouTubers on the live stream had acquired the image at 8K resolution.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: LOTR TV adaptation

161
How can it be the Sun with the Trees present? The two things are not contemporary, unless my memory is falling me badly here. Unless those are the destroyed stumps after Morgoth's attack, there is no period in ME history at which the Sun is in the sky and the Two Trees exist as living, light-shedding entities.

I don't see them making so egregious a mistake, so it's either not the Sun, or those trees are in far worse shape than they appear, and I'll admit it's too far away to tell. What makes it even more complicated is that the Wells of Varda are clearly visible in the shot as well, and we know those were drained dry by Ungoliant during the attack. All these visual cues to me say that Earendil's presence would be a virtual chronological impossibility.
This Space for Rent

Re: LOTR TV adaptation

163
Val, I think what you’re referring to as the wells of Varda is just part of the same river that can be seen closer to the foreground to the left of the hill where the figure is standing. As for the trees, yes they are very far away, and within those limitations, they could easily just be the dead bodies of the trees with the sun shining behind them.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: LOTR TV adaptation

164
A few years ago, I would not have believed that we would be interpreting a screen grab from a Middle-earth series, wherein said screen grab depicted Valinor.

During the live stream last night, one of the TORN guys commented that had CJRT been alive, we would never ever ever ever ever ever had this image to pore over and debate.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: LOTR TV adaptation

165
You're probably right about the river thing, though I don't recall one ever being described as passing from the interior of Valinor and emptying out on the shores of Aman. Creative interpretation of geography, I guess. I'm ok with that, just not with the Trees and the Sun being there at the same time, so if this is a shot looking out in the direction of the Doors of Night at sunset, those Trees better not be shedding their own light.

I also read a couple of posts talking about the Teleri ships in the foreground, which made me go "Huh? What ships?!?" Is there a second picture out there that I missed?
This Space for Rent

Re: LOTR TV adaptation

166
I’m going to wax a bit philosophical , accompanied by some melancholia….
That picture (and it is pretty stunning) saddens me a little.
Forgetting, for the moment, that it is from a television series, it is like looking though a portal of the space-time continuum.

When I first saw it, my visceral reaction was one of longing, an immediate and profound desire to go to that place and time of the picture.
This from a person who, tho’ I haven’t read the Sil, is still familiar enough with the History of ME.
I cannot think that those of you that have read the Sil and the other ME historical works are not similarly if not more deeply moved by seeing it.
It is, in a word, haunting.


"Unless you're prepared to surrender everything, don't surrender anything."

When seconds matter, it's reassuring to know that the police are only minutes away.

"Only the paranoid survive."

Re: LOTR TV adaptation

167
Yes, I can totally relate. Reading the Silmarilion and immersing myself in the history of Middle-earth invokes a definite melancholia that is mingled with wonder. I feel nostalgic and sad for all those imaginary places and people that are lost throughout the Ages of Middle-earth... so much beauty, wisdom, and love lost. I often find myself wishing to be able to fly over that primordial state that Arda was in at the beginning, and see with my own eyes the wonderful sights that are now lost, like Almaren, the Lamps of Illuin and Ormal, the peaceful and starlit shores of Cuivienen, the eaves of Doriath, the shores of Valinor, the Halls of Mandos on the mournful edge of the Ekkaia, the Outer Ocean, the peak of Armenelos... oh, the list goes on and on. :'(
This Space for Rent

Re: LOTR TV adaptation

168
Wow, just wow.

I had exactly the same reaction when looking at that picture, and honestly teared up just a bit when I read your posts. It is an interpretation of Tolkien's idea of an earthly paradise, where there was beauty, bliss, and nothing to worry about. How different it is from the real world that we live in! And sadly, this is what our world has the potential to be, if people would only decide to get along, money could be spend on medical research instead of weapons, etc.

My reaction so often when reading Tolkien, when the characters are in an idyllic setting, such as Valinor or even Rivendell, is how wonderful it would be to be there, and be sheltered and safe.

We are not the only ones who have felt this way. Check out this song from the band Rush, once semi (?) jokingly referred to by Val as Canada's greatest band.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_G-zanqLD3M

You know, Canada has produced an astonishing amount of wonderful musicians relative to its population.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: LOTR TV adaptation

170
OMG....If only....Hope he's right, hope it's true ....
All my life I have lived and [almost] died on gossamer threads of hope.
Maybe it will happen the way it ought to, the way we want it to...maybe....


"Unless you're prepared to surrender everything, don't surrender anything."

When seconds matter, it's reassuring to know that the police are only minutes away.

"Only the paranoid survive."

Re: LOTR TV adaptation

171
As my typically cynical self, I read way too much fanboyish gushing in that article. The author is not wrong in saying we never thought this could happen, but to speak about this series like it's the Second Coming based off of one picture is a set of pretty bold assertions. Yes, we can dare to hope, but temper that enthusiasm with a healthy dose of caution. I've never been a fan of having my expectations be set so high that the inevitable crash is sure to break every bone in my body. Let's wait for a few more encouraging signs before prematurely trotting out the Emmy nominations and setting up the victory parade. I guess every other negative sign we've been handed during this production just gets to be swept under the rug at the sudden release of a single picture?

Come on. :rolleye:
This Space for Rent

Re: LOTR TV adaptation

172
Here's my reaction to that editorial. Yes, Amazon certainly has the ability, the wherewithal, to put on a quality production, and that picture demonstrates that. However, if they don't have good scripts, it'll all be a waste of time and resources. Not even a great director with a huge budget can spin a bad script into a great finished product. To me, the first requirement for this production to have good scripts is that they have access to materials beyond the very limited Hobbit/LOTR rights that Tolkien sold in the 1960s. If they were stuck with basing it off what could be gleaned from the LOTR appendices, they would have to make up so much to make a show out of this that it would probably go astray, IMHO. A few weeks ago when TORN published the rumor that the production had obtained rights to relevant parts of Unfinished Tales and The Silmarillion, that was very good news. Part of my own personal shell of skepticism started to thaw. And then this picture was released. It very clearly demonstrates one of two things a) rights to at least part of The Silmarillion were obtained or b) the Estate is going to be shutting this production down or at least lodging a frightful legal action against it. I'm guessing it's the former. That being the case, the most necessary piece is in place for this to have a foundation for success: access to the source materials.

The guy who wrote that op-ed, Demosthenes, was a participant in last week's TORN livestream on YouTube (the one where they spent two hours analyzing that picture). If you've got time to kill, check it out; it was entertaining. While it sounds geekish in the extreme to spend two hours on one picture, if you remember how little solid material has been available from this production to date (their secrecy shames that of JJ Abrams), then it's not wonder they had such a feeding frenzy.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: LOTR TV adaptation

173
So, I watched the TORN livestream on YouTube tonight, or most of it. I'm not sure how long it went on after I'd had enough and switched over to HGTV. In any event, they spent about an hour again discussing The Picture. This stream was hosted by Cliff "Quickbeam" Broadway, who is a longtime TORN staffer, and someone named Justin. I'm not sure who he is and what his relationship to TORN is, if any. But between his own musings and his reading from the chatroom, I was wanting to pull out my closely shorn hair.

Now, I don't mean to disparage anyone who's never read The Silmarillion. I know there are folks on our own site here who have not. But I think TORN is, rightly or wrongly, viewed as a pretty authoritative Tolkien source in fandom. Because of that, I feel they have an obligation to have decent knowledge about topics they're going to discuss. Quickbeam seems pretty knowledgeable but this other guy, and again, my apologies to him and others, but at one point I screamed at the TV, "if you haven't read The Silmarillion, don't suppose yourself entitled to have theories about the picture!" I mean, seriously, first he asked when Tirion was destroyed. That was enough of a huh moment for me, and then he came out with something like, when The Two Trees exploded, did it ruin the city or was it already abandoned. That finally impinged on Quickbeam's consciousness...they're doing this by Zoom and if you've ever done that, you know it's easy to talk over each other and not hear the other...and he explained that the trees never exploded, that they were killed by Morgoth and Ungoliant, and withered. Then Justin was obsessed with spiders and spent some time scanning the corners of the picture for spider webs.

After this, I wandered into the kitchen to make myself a smoothie and was only half-listening, as I would soon be switching the channel, so to speak, anyway. But back to my story, they then opened up the Zoom to other callers, whether other YouTubers or just fans in general, I don't know. The biggest takeaway from this part, during the few minutes I experienced, was a strong consensus among them that they want Howard Shore to do the soundtrack. That's a sentiment I strongly share, so I listened for any tidbits that that might be happening. From what I gathered, no one as been announced as composer yet, which at least leaves open the possibility it could be Shore. Quickbeam suggested that even if they were unable to get him fulltime (a series would be a huge commitment), perhaps at least he could allow the use of some of his themes from LOTR. Quickbeam gave the example of Star Trek: The Next Generation using Jerry Goldsmith's theme from The Motion Picture. He couldn't remember which movie, so he just said one of the movies. One of the new attendees on the Zoom, whose opinion he seemed to value, asked about theme, so Quickbeam hummed it. She said, oh that's the theme from the Next Generation. Again, a huh moment. He was like, yeah that's what I said, but it was from one of the movies. I suppose I shouldn't fault someone on a Tolkien-related stream for not being an expert on Star Trek, but at least pay attention. So it was another frustration. As was nearly everyone's tendency to pronounce "Tolkien" with three syllables....

I think next week I will not be watching the livestream unless they have new news to discuss....
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: LOTR TV adaptation

174
This is why I don't listen to any of these people. Not to sound like a snob but yeah, keep your mouth shut and do your dignity a favour rather than speaki about things that you clearly have no knowledge of yet somehow know is important to others.

This also demonstrates to me that if this Justin guy is really stoked for this series yet so casually displays his ignorance of the subject, then what does that say for the folks at large that Amazon is going after? The real fans will be busy picking over the inevitable errors, and the unwashed masses will be revelling at stuff they have no clue about which beggars the question: just how much weight can you put on their praise then? I felt quite a bit of that with the LOTR movies, and it's going to be a hundred times worse with material that is even more obscure.

You can appreciate art without being an expert, but there's a deeper level there that will simply be wasted on morons like this 'Justin'.
This Space for Rent

Re: LOTR TV adaptation

175
Valkrist wrote: Tue Aug 10, 2021 6:41 pm ....This also demonstrates to me that if this Justin guy is really stoked for this series yet so casually displays his ignorance of the subject, then what does that say for the folks at large that Amazon is going after? The real fans will be busy picking over the inevitable errors, and the unwashed masses will be revelling at stuff they have no clue about which beggars the question: just how much weight can you put on their praise then? I felt quite a bit of that with the LOTR movies, and it's going to be a hundred times worse with material that is even more obscure....

The "Justins" will always be with us.... To once again quote Ursula K. Le Guin on the adaptation of of her Earthsea stories
"I said that although I knew that a film must differ greatly from a book, I hoped they were making no unnecessary changes in the plot or to the characters—a dangerous thing to do, since the books have been known to millions of people for decades. They replied that the TV audience is much larger, and entirely different, and would be unlikely to care about changes to the books' story and characters. " (emphasis added) -- Ursula K. Le Guin (from "How the Sci-Fi channel wrecked my books.")

So yeah, the potential for an adaptation disaster is very high.


"Unless you're prepared to surrender everything, don't surrender anything."

When seconds matter, it's reassuring to know that the police are only minutes away.

"Only the paranoid survive."

Re: LOTR TV adaptation

176
LeGuin, peace be upon her name, quite eloquently expressed her issues with Sci-Fi's version of Earthsea. Amongst other things, they whitewashed the cast pretty badly. I have not yet read any of the books (though I have a gorgeous one-volume illustrated edition that contains all her Earthsea novels and stories) but she has said most of the characters were dark-skinned. Since I haven't read the books, I don't know how clear that was made, but if it was clear, I guess Sci-Fi just chose to ignore it. This resulted in LeGuin entitling her essay on the topic "Earthsea in Clorox." It's been quite a while since I read it, but I'm sure she had other issues with the production.

I never had Sci-Fi (or SyFy) so I never saw it. I did see their production of Arthur C. Clarke's Childhood's End and although there were some things I didn't care for about it, on the whole I felt they did a credible job with it and personally validated their effort by buying the BluRay when it came out. It seems like there's not that many people wanting to take a risk on filming old sci-fi, even if it's considered a classic author's masterwork, so if they do, and do a good job, it should be rewarded. Amazon is also setting out to adapt the first book of noted author Octavia Butler's Xenogenesis trilogy, so I hope they do a good job with that.

But getting back to Amazon LOTR and how good or bad it will be, I recalled another tidbit from the livestream. It was related that noted author Neil Gaiman, who's had an involvement with Amazon due to their adaptation of a book he cowrote with the late Terry Pratchett, said that based on what he's heard, their LOTR is sticking pretty close to the books. It was stressed he hasn't read any scripts or seen any footage, so it was just impressions from folks he knows. Of course, 10 different people could well have 10 different takes on what is "pretty close." Only time will tell. And quite a bit of time, at that. It's somewhat numbing to think that the first episode is still a year off, and we will have to be alternately titillated and alarmed by various rumors and infodumps coming out across that period.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: LOTR TV adaptation

177
Season 2 will be filmed in the UK. I hope no power lines or "dark satanic mills" will be visible in the background, LOL. TORN speculates the movie is driven by the ongoing scourge of Covid, but the press release doesn't specify that.

I also noted that the press release refers to the show as still being untitled. Only a few days ago someone somewhere expressed the opinion that since Amazon's official site for it was calling it that, why was there even a question as to the name?

I am of mixed feelings on this. Calling it LOTR will cause some confusion with the book/film series of the same name, and thus I feel it should be called something else. At the same time, the Second Age is first and foremost the story of Sauron's rise as the new Dark Lord. The Rings were forged during this time, and he is the Lord of the Rings, so it would not be at all incorrect to call the series LOTR. And I find it very hard to imagine Amazon turning their back on the built-in name recognition that goes with that title.

But if not LOTR, what would it be called? The only things I can think of right now would be Tales from Middle-earth. Personally I like the sound of that but I can see that some would find it too generic, too non-descriptive.

Ugh, new names suggest themselves: The Lord of the Rings Begins, The Lord of the Rings Rises? Christopher Nolan, what have you done to me?!

https://www.theonering.net/torwp/2021/0 ... tv-series/
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: LOTR TV adaptation

180
I caught a little of TORN's livestream last night. Topic of discussion was the production's move to the UK. Again, that Justin guy showed himself not to be in possession of correct facts, but I digress. The two main points I want to present here are these. One of the guys made the observation that until recently, fans have been regarding this production with a great deal of skepticism/reserve, until The Image was released. That incredible picture warmed a lot of hearts and build up a lot of good will. And then this fly by night move pretty much destroyed that.

The other point was that Amazon is almost certainly in breach of contract with the New Zealand government. Based on Quickbeam's understanding of the contract, in exchange for the $100M+ tax breaks the production was given, they agreed to film at least two seasons in New Zealand, and also to give, IIRC, 12 months notice of moving the production. So, they only did one season, and they gave about 20 minutes notice of the move. Allegedly, a good deal of stuff has been filmed in the UK already. Now, I'm not a lawyer, and neither were the two guys doing the live stream, of course, but it sounds to me like Amazon can be in a world of hurt if the NZ government chooses to press its case (and I hope it does).

Other issues discussed were separating the art from the artist (trying to judge the show on its merits instead of Amazon's shady doings) and the issue of NZ vs. UK. No one is saying a perfect production can't be mounted in the UK, but they kept having to explain to people posting in the chatbox that a) Amazon did something truly crappy, unethical, and illegal, and b) the incredible landscape of NZ is firmly fixed in the minds of millions if not billions of viewers as what Middle-earth looks like. There is speculation that some of the location work will be filmed in Scotland. Scotland is beautiful, of course, but does it have anything that looks like New Zealand's Southern Alps? I don't think so!
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: LOTR TV adaptation

182
Deimos wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 5:12 pm Check this out: Reuters reports Middle Earth is moving

NZ govt is disappointed but I don't think there will be any legal action.
And this is why the rich just keep getting richer, because no one has the 'nads to take on these big outfits and make them pay for their flippant behaviour.

As for the point of fan skepticism, if these Amazon people didn't expect that, or know why that is, then Eru save us all because it truly means they don't know what they've got on their hands.
This Space for Rent

Re: LOTR TV adaptation

183
Just a few thoughts on this, intermingled with some speculation(s)...

The article said that the Borg's announcement was that the location move was for The Second Season, not for all the remaining seasons.
That is, nothing was specified about the location(s) for the remaining 3 seasons.
So if the English countryside, which is the perfect setting for The Shire (as Tolkien intended), does not quite measure up to portraying the much more rugged settings of the rest of Middle Earth (and short of faking it with computer magic I don't see how it can), Amazon studios may again choose to decamp to a more geographically accurate place.
Now, Amazon could decide that NZ maybe is after all, the most Middle Earth-y place, having most, if not all, of the climates required for the stories, and moreover, having them all close enough to each other, that the cost to travel among locations is kept down.
But after pulling up stakes the first time without so much as "by your leave" to NZ (and thumbing its nose at the "agreement"), well, I think the Borg has pretty much burned that bridge.
So if it happens that the last 3 seasons will not be filmed in the UK, that would leave, I am guessing, somewhere in Europe.
And IIRC wasn't there some talk, maybe a few years back, of several eastern European countries (the northern ones) having the geography/terrain that would more than measure up to the look of ME?


"Unless you're prepared to surrender everything, don't surrender anything."

When seconds matter, it's reassuring to know that the police are only minutes away.

"Only the paranoid survive."

Re: LOTR TV adaptation

184
You're forgetting the gorgeous setting of British Columbia, where I live, and the majestic Rocky Mountains, which have stood in for innumerable locations in movies and TV series over the years. I think the Pacific Northwest would have a good shot at simulating many parts of ME, or even Valinor. Sadly, the wildfire season this year has been so insanely out of control (over 300 simultaneously burning fires at one point) that I almost feel they wouldn't be able to film anywhere without having to hide the scars of what's been happening. Just like California, we've lost more than one community now and it's horrific. But yeah, let's keep telling ourselves that climate change isn't causing this... someone really ought to get out there and rake those forest leaves. :rolleye:
This Space for Rent

Re: LOTR TV adaptation

185
Valkrist wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 8:01 pm ... which have stood in for innumerable locations in movies and TV series over the years.... :rolleye:
Which is precisely why they need to steer away from certain locales. If you've seen it before, your mind won't let you believe it's Middle-earth. Case in point: Wyoming's Tetons. Stunning, beautiful mountains, and the grouping of three principal peaks would make them a shoe-in for the Mountains of Moria. But they're one of the most recognizable mountainscapes on this planet. making them an immediate non-starter. And there's another stunning range in the Canadian Rockies that is very recognizable. I think it is also a national park but I don't know which one. So yeah, they could definitely film in North America, but they'd have to be careful to avoid well-known ranges (as well as wildfires).
Valkrist wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 8:01 pm But yeah, let's keep telling ourselves that climate change isn't causing this... someone really ought to get out there and rake those forest leaves. :rolleye:
What are you talking about? There's no such thing as climate change. And it's not responsible for wildfires, or bigger and more frequent hurricanes. And vaccines are bad. And masks take away your freedom. :crazy2:

Oh, the crazy world we live in....
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: LOTR TV adaptation

187
That may have been a factor, and I’m sure that Amazon is probably trying to hide behind that to some degree, but I have no doubt that the motivating factor it was to shake down yet another government for a handout. I hate it when sports teams do that to get a new stadium, and I don’t like it any better when film companies do it to make a movie or TV show.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: LOTR TV adaptation

188
Olorin wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:35 am That may have been a factor, and I’m sure that Amazon is probably trying to hide behind that to some degree, but I have no doubt that the motivating factor it was to shake down yet another government for a handout. I hate it when sports teams do that to get a new stadium, and I don’t like it any better when film companies do it to make a movie or TV show.
Especially when said company is Amazon.

Seriously, it's like having Jeff Bezos or Mark Zuckerberg walk up to you on the street and ask for spare change for a cup of coffee. Disgusting.
This Space for Rent

Re: LOTR TV adaptation

190
They're also probably afraid that if they take a hard stance on this, that other production companies will get cold feet and not consider shooting in NZ in the future, therefore costing the country possible revenue down the road.

While that may be so, the government is also failing to understand that by letting Amazon get away with it, they may as well put a sticker on their foreheads that says "Pushover" and they're just encouraging others to do the same.
This Space for Rent

Re: LOTR TV adaptation

191
From the Reuters article:
Nash said an extra 5% incentive offered by New Zealand's Screen Production Grant in addition to a 20% grant the production already qualifies for would be withdrawn. Amazon said it would not pursue the 5% financial uplift.

Amazon Studios qualified for a 20% grant, which means it was likely in a contingency clause having to do with filming ALL seasons in NZ.
Probably it was only the first season that it was contractually required to film there.
I doubt that Bezos would leave Amazon open to a lawsuit (them is some deep pockets juneau...)

Amazon fulfilled the letter of its contract with NZ if not its spirit; meaning Amazon probably lead NZ to believe that "Oh yeah, fer sure, fer sure! Of course we are going to film the entire series in NZ!"
Not suggesting that A-S deliberately lied, only that it made certain it could legally pursue other "options", whatever those options might be about.
If either party were to sue, it seems from the above Reuters info that A-S is the one that could demand a payment of the 5% Incentive.
Financial incentives often have "no strings attached" for the customer, just something the wooing party throws in to sweeten the deal.

That is, NZ would be obligated to pay it, but A-S would not be obligated to return it, unless there was also a "repayment" clause of some kind.
No doubt Bezos conscience must have bothered him a teensy bit (ummm, yeah, I'm sure it did :rolleye: ) so he generously decided not to demand NZ make good on the 5% incentive.


"Unless you're prepared to surrender everything, don't surrender anything."

When seconds matter, it's reassuring to know that the police are only minutes away.

"Only the paranoid survive."

Re: LOTR TV adaptation

195
It now has an official title: The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power

https://variety.com/2022/tv/news/lord-o ... 235156784/

I'm guessing the woman narrating the announcement video is Morfydd Clark, who's playing Galadriel. A nice enough voice, but no Cate Blanchett in the silken tones department. Just sayin'! Otherwise, I like the name and what they did to create this video (practical effects with actual molten metal) is mind-boggling. Hopefully they go as all-out writing a quality script.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."

Re: LOTR TV adaptation

196
Yeah, the voice is kind of high.
Maybe I'm too accustomed to Cate's voice, but I'm thinking they could have picked a "Galadriel" actress that had a slightly deeper voice.


"Unless you're prepared to surrender everything, don't surrender anything."

When seconds matter, it's reassuring to know that the police are only minutes away.

"Only the paranoid survive."

Re: LOTR TV adaptation

198
The use of high[er] women's voices for cinematic elves or elven like creatures (often as voice-overs) has always galled me.
I think Tolkien expressed profound and decided distaste for "Disneyfied" elves and also dwarves.


"Unless you're prepared to surrender everything, don't surrender anything."

When seconds matter, it's reassuring to know that the police are only minutes away.

"Only the paranoid survive."

Re: LOTR TV adaptation

199
Yes, Tolkien absolutely loathed Disney, and not just for their bastardization of elves and dwarves but for their misappropriation and trivialization of fairy tales in general. I don't think this comes out in any of the material in Unfinished Tales or in the HoME series, as that is focused wholly on his own legendarium, but it is covered in Letters and I think in his biography (both of which I read long ago). If I recall correctly, he also perceived Disney as an avatar of American culture (as have many abroad), and I suspect he resented our ascendance as a world power over the fading mother country.

The topic of Galadriel, her voice, and other attributes of her person is an interesting one in light of today's increasing awareness of transgender issues. Don't misread that. I don't mean to imply for even a single femtosecond that Tolkien was suggesting a transgender nature for her. That would have been totally off his radar or to the extent it was on the radar, I'm sure he would've been appalled by it. Due to his strict religious views, he was extremely rigid about anything having to do with sexuality, even the most mainstream, vanilla sexuality. In Letters, there is a letter to one of his sons (Chris, I imagine), warning that the road to hell runs through a strange woman's mouth, or words to that effect.

But I digress. What I am referring to is his assignment of various "manly" attributes to her. She is described not only as having a deep voice for a woman but also as being taller than the typical elf woman (I refrained from saying "she-elf"). In fact, her mother gave her the name of Nerwen, meaning "man-maiden" for "her height and her great strength of body and will" (quoting the Encyclopedia of Arda). So, what does this mean? Much has been said (inaccurately) about how Tolkien did not write about female characters or more accurately, that he did not write much about them. I think some women dismiss his work right out of the gate because of that. But why did he not right much about females? It certainly wasn't for lack of love of women; his adoration of his wife Edith is legendary. Was it because he tended to write about epic quests and battles, and he didn't see a role for women in that? He certainly sent Eowyn (another woman with "manly" traits) into battle (though once she meets the "right man," she suddenly gives all that up, one might say). Was it just that he felt he couldn't put himself into a woman's head to write female characters convincingly? I don't know. I just think it's an interesting question.
"Olorin I was in the West that is forgotten...."
Post Reply

Return to “Tolkien”

cron