Re: United Cutlery's - LOTR & The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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N2darkness wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:01 am Does that also mean more expensive pieces to produce like Faramir's sword or Gimli's throwing axes are also on hold? Completely understandable, just wasn't sure how far along they were.
No, Faramir's sword is nearly complete and should be in production before the year ends. I just mean after that, depending on the market, they may hold off on the next new sword a while. It's a huge tooling and inventory investment to make. Very risky in a depression.

Not sure on the axes, as those are just in the drawing stage as this point. They will probably be sold individually to keep the unit cost down, so not as risky.
KRDS

Re: United Cutlery's - LOTR & The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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Nasnandos wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:28 am
N2darkness wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:01 am Does that also mean more expensive pieces to produce like Faramir's sword or Gimli's throwing axes are also on hold? Completely understandable, just wasn't sure how far along they were.
No, Faramir's sword is nearly complete and should be in production before the year ends. I just mean after that, depending on the market, they may hold off on the next new sword a while. It's a huge tooling and inventory investment to make. Very risky in a depression.

Not sure on the axes, as those are just in the drawing stage as this point. They will probably be sold individually to keep the unit cost down, so not as risky.
I'd buy multiples of those axes for what it's worth lol. Sadly it looks like I'ma have to buy a 3rd bearded axe just for another plaque :'( my 2nd Walking Axe didn't come with one. UC already said they were a no go. Is what it is. Super excited to see the rest of Gimli's armament being completed. Can we expect those (just curious) to have the threaded reinforcement rod or are the hafts short enough and lacking decor to not warrant them?

Maybe like a threaded bit coming out the axe head and a hole drilled into a haft with an epoxied nut in the haft to screw the head/threads down into?
Image

Re: United Cutlery's - LOTR & The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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Nasnandos wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 6:48 am
DracoAdamantus wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 3:36 pm Question for those more in-tune with item release history. I've been doing some research on trying to track down some of the limited edition United Cutlery items, and I've seen a few posts that say that not all of these were completed. Some were manufactured and released, but not the entire quantity of the edition, and then more were released again some time later. I know that the Gondorian Infantry, Isildur, and Elendiel helms are one such case.

Does anyone have the information or know where I can find out as to whether these runs have been completed or not? That way I won't be trying to track down something secondhand if it's going to be coming back eventually.

Also, am I missing anything from this list? And are there any chances serialized items (but not LE) would be coming back, or are those definitely over?
A collector emailed me earlier this year with a similar list, asking if I could confirm it. Here is his list with my comments in italics. It's already outdated, but may answer a few of your questions.
Sorry, I'm a little confused by the wording of some of those notes. So to confirm I am reading right, what does "not sold out" for a LE item mean? Does that mean the run was not completed and will they likely be reissued to complete the run at one point or another? Because a number of the ones from that conversation have not been on the market for a while for as long as I have been following it.

You said some of the info was out of date but the conversation was just earlier this year, will the following items be returning to finish out their limited runs in the future or not?
UC1382 High Elven War helm
UC1384 Gimli helmet
UC1428 High Elven War Shield
UC1457 WitchKing helm
UC3065 Gauntlet of Sauron 2nd. Version

Also, what is the difference between UC3034 Sauron mace with One Ring, and UC3520 Sauron's mace with One Ring - Red Eye Edition w/banner?

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DracoAdamantus wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 2:27 pm Sorry, I'm a little confused by the wording of some of those notes. So to confirm I am reading right, what does "not sold out" for a LE item mean? Does that mean the run was not completed and will they likely be reissued to complete the run at one point or another? Because a number of the ones from that conversation have not been on the market for a while for as long as I have been following it.
Sold out on a limited run means the entire edition was completed and all inventory sold. Those were not.
DracoAdamantus wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 2:27 pm You said some of the info was out of date but the conversation was just earlier this year, will the following items be returning to finish out their limited runs in the future or not?
UC1382 High Elven War helm
UC1384 Gimli helmet
UC1428 High Elven War Shield
UC1457 WitchKing helm
UC3065 Gauntlet of Sauron 2nd. Version
As my notes said, the UC1382 and UC1457 editions will probably be continued and finished. No idea on the others.

Other than the UC1384, the original tooling masters made at the old UC are long gone, so it's not just a matter making more. The tooling has to be re-made, so it's almost like starting from sccratch.
DracoAdamantus wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 2:27 pm Also, what is the difference between UC3034 Sauron mace with One Ring, and UC3520 Sauron's mace with One Ring - Red Eye Edition w/banner?
It's the opposite of what Val said, but it should not have been done regardless. Someone in UC's purchasing department ordered another run, not realizing it was limited and sold out. By the time they caught it, the factory had already made 100 or so. They came up with the "new" version so they could sell them instead of eating the cost already spent to make them.

People would be surprised at how many times that kind of thing happens. Several companies I have worked with have messed up like that, including the old UC.
KRDS

Re: United Cutlery's - LOTR & The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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Nasnandos wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 5:57 pm
It's the opposite of what Val said, but it should not have been done regardless. Someone in UC's purchasing department ordered another run, not realizing it was limited and sold out. By the time they caught it, the factory had already made 100 or so. They came up with the "new" version so they could sell them instead of eating the cost already spent to make them.

People would be surprised at how many times that kind of thing happens. Several companies I have worked with have messed up like that, including the old UC.
Well now... I had never heard that story! Have you ever mentioned that before, Kit? If so, then I apologize. So what is the numbering on those things then? Does it continue, or do they start at 1? Wow, still learning weird facts after all these years. :O

Having said that, I still take UC to task for 'cheating' with Anduril, and Sauron's Helm and Gauntlet. I hope you convince them to just stop doing limited editions, like you said.
This Space for Rent

Re: United Cutlery's - LOTR & The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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Valkrist wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:00 pm Well now... I had never heard that story! Have you ever mentioned that before, Kit? If so, then I apologize. So what is the numbering on those things then? Does it continue, or do they start at 1? Wow, still learning weird facts after all these years. :O

Having said that, I still take UC to task for 'cheating' with Anduril, and Sauron's Helm and Gauntlet. I hope you convince them to just stop doing limited editions, like you said.
I think I hinted at it here late last year, but I did not know exactly what happened at the time. When I was consulted on it I suggested they just destroy any castings that had been made, but I was thinking it was a small number. It turned out that they had finish around 100, but the factory had actually cast all 300 for the run. The whole 'Red Eye' banner and paint change were what I suggested to them, to avoid it being a direct continuation of a sold out edition. There were a lot of requests from collectors for those banners to be sold separately, so we are now looking at doing a line of war banners. I guess that's the one good thing that came out of it.

The exact same thing happened with the gauntlet, by the way. That's why there are two versions of that. The second version of the helm was intentional though. I think that's something WB wanted, and I'm sure there will be a third at some point.
Valkrist wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:00 pm I hope you convince them to just stop doing limited editions, like you said.
They decided that on their own last year. I'm sure it was partly due to those two huge mishaps, but I also know WB was against limited editions. It was probably a forced change.
KRDS

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StrongWithGod wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:43 am I read "War Banners"...I have several from the og run back in early 00s and I keep on buying since...are there any chances of more being done? Absolutely love those...And I´ll be glad to buy the banner from the LE Anduril that will be released soon if put on sale...
UC did not make those old banners, so they won't be re-making those exact ones. These will be the same shapes and size as the banners included with the current UC products, including the hanging rod, but they will probably just be printed cloth with a hemmed edge. Like the printed art on those seasonal and holiday house flags people hang on their porches.

I have the art for most of the banners and flags used in the films, so we could make any of them, but I think we will start with one of the Rohan banners first, and maybe a Gondor banner, like the two below. That's assuming UC decides to proceed with them. It's just an idea in development at this stage, but I think there are enough of us collectors out there who would want them. The ones who still have some wall space, anyway!
Image
KRDS

Re: United Cutlery's - LOTR & The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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Nasnandos wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 5:57 pm
DracoAdamantus wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 2:27 pm Sorry, I'm a little confused by the wording of some of those notes. So to confirm I am reading right, what does "not sold out" for a LE item mean? Does that mean the run was not completed and will they likely be reissued to complete the run at one point or another? Because a number of the ones from that conversation have not been on the market for a while for as long as I have been following it.
Sold out on a limited run means the entire edition was completed and all inventory sold. Those were not.
DracoAdamantus wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 2:27 pm You said some of the info was out of date but the conversation was just earlier this year, will the following items be returning to finish out their limited runs in the future or not?
UC1382 High Elven War helm
UC1384 Gimli helmet
UC1428 High Elven War Shield
UC1457 WitchKing helm
UC3065 Gauntlet of Sauron 2nd. Version
As my notes said, the UC1382 and UC1457 editions will probably be continued and finished. No idea on the others.

Other than the UC1384, the original tooling masters made at the old UC are long gone, so it's not just a matter making more. The tooling has to be re-made, so it's almost like starting from scratch.
Interesting. Thanks for clarifying on that! I'm really really hoping that 1384 is completed at some point. 1428 too, but seems that one is much less likely.

Re: United Cutlery's - LOTR & The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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Valkrist wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 4:56 am
JJByers wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 12:24 am Are UC's Sting swords M.E. scale? I assumed so given in human/elven hands they'd be daggers and in Hobbit hands swords.
I'm 100% certain they are (or as close as possible). By comparison, the Noble Sting, which is actor scale, is huge. I'm pretty sure the Weta Master Swordsmith one is actor scale also.
That's what I was thinking. I recall reading the Sauron stuff is scaled down and maybe Eomer's spear in terms of length.
Noble's Deathless is, some oddity of itself. But Sting usually comes up in Convo and I've always thought it, scaled, is a dagger. And seems sword like in Hobbit hands.
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Depends on what you call M.E. scale. There was no single scale reduction from the large props to the small ones. It varied be the race and sometimes the scale actor size. Sting is an odd one that falls in between the small scale actor-double prop and the large Elijah actor scale prop.

There was an old thread from 10-12 years ago here here where we talked about Sting's creation when my memory was fresher on all this stuff. I did a search, but I guess the current version of the website does not go back that far. Anyway, Sting was the first LOTR replica we made, and we had very little to work with. This was before New Line had their LOTR assets machine up and running, so all we had were some photos of various Sting props, which all looked slightly different. We did not have a length, so I had to guestimate the prop scale from photos of Eljah holding it. Remember, no one had seen the film at this point, so we really had no idea how they were going to scale the Hobbits, or how much Sting would even be seen.

We knew the Hobbits would be scaled down in the film, but no one could tell us what that scale reduction was. We had to start anyway because we had a contractual on market date to meet for UC replica, but we did eventually get lengths from NL for three prop sizes before we started on the tooling. There was a small-scale actor double prop that was around 17", a middle scale prop length of 22", and a the large Elijah scale. I can't remember now, but I think that was 27 or 28". There was a big discussion at UC about which scale to make, and we picked the middle one. We were eventually loaned a prop. I think it was the middle scale, but I don't remember for sure now. I'm pretty sure we had already started tooling by then anyway, so it was useless at that point. Much later Weta sent me the small-scale actor double prop, but we were already on the market by then. Then the film comes out and we mostly see the Elijah scale prop on screen, which is proportionately different from what we made. That's what sparked the idea for the more screen accurate MC Sting a few years later.

Anyway, sorry for the novel. I guess the short answer is "neither".

Here are some of the Weta prop photos we were given. I think the bottom two were all we had to work with when we started.
Image
Last edited by Nasnandos on Sat Dec 03, 2022 8:57 am, edited 5 times in total.
KRDS

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JJByers wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 6:06 am That's what I was thinking. I recall reading the Sauron stuff is scaled down and maybe Eomer's spear in terms of length.
Noble's Deathless is, some oddity of itself. But Sting usually comes up in Convo and I've always thought it, scaled, is a dagger. And seems sword like in Hobbit hands.
The Eomer spear was around 8' and I reduced it to around 7'. I think that was just the shaft length reduction though, not the spear head. The Sauron helm and gauntlet were more-or-less large actor scale, not M.E. scale. The mace was M.E. scale, but there were three different scales of that prop. We did the large one, but there was a longer version of it too.

There were several props with multiple scales. Some smaller M.E. scale thaN the main actors, and some larger. Even ones you would not think of, like Glamdring, had both large and small scale props.
Last edited by Nasnandos on Sat Dec 03, 2022 8:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
KRDS

Re: United Cutlery's - LOTR & The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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Nasnandos wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 7:14 am
JJByers wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 6:06 am That's what I was thinking. I recall reading the Sauron stuff is scaled down and maybe Eomer's spear in terms of length.
Noble's Deathless is, some oddity of itself. But Sting usually comes up in Convo and I've always thought it, scaled, is a dagger. And seems sword like in Hobbit hands.
The Eomer spear was around 8' and I reduced it to around 7'. I think that was just the shaft length reduction though, not the spear head. The Sauron helm and gauntlet were more-or-less large actor scale, not M.E. scale. The mace was M.E. scale, but there were three different scales of that prop. We did the large one, but there was a longer version of it too.

There were several props with multiple scales. Some smaller M.E. scale that the main actors, and some larger. Even ones you would not think of, like Glamdring, had both large and small scale props.
Makes sense, seeing Bilbo or Frodo onscreen near a "larger" Gandalf would require an oversized sword as well to keep everything in "scale." Thanks for all the info. Of info, I saw the Sword of Fili was listed still? Any chance of Kili's re-emerging or did blade warping issues do that one in for good? 2 of the 3 Fili swords I had did have some slight warping as well but nothing major. But I recall the early Kili swords had issues and required some corrections.
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Nasnandos wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 7:01 am Much later Weta sent me the small-scale actor double prop, but we were already on the market by then. Then the film comes out and we mostly see the Elijah scale prop on screen, which is proportionately different from what we made. That's what sparked the idea for the more screen accurate MC Sting a few years later.

Anyway, sorry for the novel. I guess the short answer is "neither".
Great read! I always enjoy history and backstory on all of these pieces and how they progress through time.

So, after receiving a Weta prop do you consider the MC version to be as accurate as UC can produce?

I'm curious as to how the newer improved version of Sting will compare to the MC. I'll definitely be buying a blue version should it ever get released.

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Nasnandos wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 5:37 am
Valkrist wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:00 pm Well now... I had never heard that story! Have you ever mentioned that before, Kit? If so, then I apologize. So what is the numbering on those things then? Does it continue, or do they start at 1? Wow, still learning weird facts after all these years. :O

Having said that, I still take UC to task for 'cheating' with Anduril, and Sauron's Helm and Gauntlet. I hope you convince them to just stop doing limited editions, like you said.
I think I hinted at it here late last year, but I did not know exactly what happened at the time. When I was consulted on it I suggested they just destroy any castings that had been made, but I was thinking it was a small number. It turned out that they had finish around 100, but the factory had actually cast all 300 for the run. The whole 'Red Eye' banner and paint change were what I suggested to them, to avoid it being a direct continuation of a sold out edition. There were a lot of requests from collectors for those banners to be sold separately, so we are now looking at doing a line of war banners. I guess that's the one good thing that came out of it.

The exact same thing happened with the gauntlet, by the way. That's why there are two versions of that. The second version of the helm was intentional though. I think that's something WB wanted, and I'm sure there will be a third at some point.
Valkrist wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 7:00 pm I hope you convince them to just stop doing limited editions, like you said.
They decided that on their own last year. I'm sure it was partly due to those two huge mishaps, but I also know WB was against limited editions. It was probably a forced change.
loved reading all this info Kit. You mention paint change - what was that? I cant really tell from online photos any difference between the two versions of the mace

Re: United Cutlery's - LOTR & The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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Nasnandos wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:02 am
StrongWithGod wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:43 am I read "War Banners"...I have several from the og run back in early 00s and I keep on buying since...are there any chances of more being done? Absolutely love those...And I´ll be glad to buy the banner from the LE Anduril that will be released soon if put on sale...
UC did not make those old banners, so they won't be re-making those exact ones. These will be the same shapes and size as the banners included with the current UC products, including the hanging rod, but they will probably just be printed cloth with a hemmed edge. Like the printed art on those seasonal and holiday house flags people hang on their porches.

I have the art for most of the banners and flags used in the films, so we could make any of them, but I think we will start with one of the Rohan banners first, and maybe a Gondor banner, like the two below. That's assuming UC decides to proceed with them. It's just an idea in development at this stage, but I think there are enough of us collectors out there who would want them. The ones who still have some wall space, anyway!
Image
You made an old man happy today!!! Eager to see them done!!!

Re: United Cutlery's - LOTR & The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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Nasnandos wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:02 am
StrongWithGod wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:43 am I read "War Banners"...I have several from the og run back in early 00s and I keep on buying since...are there any chances of more being done? Absolutely love those...And I´ll be glad to buy the banner from the LE Anduril that will be released soon if put on sale...
UC did not make those old banners, so they won't be re-making those exact ones. These will be the same shapes and size as the banners included with the current UC products, including the hanging rod, but they will probably just be printed cloth with a hemmed edge. Like the printed art on those seasonal and holiday house flags people hang on their porches.

I have the art for most of the banners and flags used in the films, so we could make any of them, but I think we will start with one of the Rohan banners first, and maybe a Gondor banner, like the two below. That's assuming UC decides to proceed with them. It's just an idea in development at this stage, but I think there are enough of us collectors out there who would want them. The ones who still have some wall space, anyway!
Image
I love the idea of UC making the banners from LOTR. I always wanted to have them.
But Kit, if I understand you correctly, if UC decides to go into making those banners they would be printed on some sort of cheap looking material (polyester?)?
Is it possible to do them with some better fabric/material?
I'm not from the US but where I live, those holiday/seasonal flags look cheap and very plastic-like.
"Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, today is a gift - that's why they call it the present."

Re: United Cutlery's - LOTR & The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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Agreed, the cheap polyester ones have already been don't by the german company Flaggen-Pehl - I have several, they're ok, but nothing special. I would hope UC could go a step above - a heavier fabric with perhaps a mix of embroidery and screen printing? Im sure people would rather pay $250 for a decent flag over $80 for a silkscreen polyester print (which is already available anyway)

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Jamie Shakespeare wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 5:01 am Agreed, the cheap polyester ones have already been don't by the german company Flaggen-Pehl - I have several, they're ok, but nothing special. I would hope UC could go a step above - a heavier fabric with perhaps a mix of embroidery and screen printing? Im sure people would rather pay $250 for a decent flag over $80 for a silkscreen polyester print (which is already available anyway)
This, 100%.

Not that I currently have plans or space to buy new banners, but if UC is to dip their toes in that, I hope they are at least one or two notches higher in quality over the old ones, of which I own quite a few. Of course, make them too fancy and they become too expensive for the average buyer, but hopefully there's a comfortable middle ground there. I like the banner that came with the original Gondor shield, and I'm hoping the one that comes with the MC Anduril is similar in quality.
This Space for Rent

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N2darkness wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 7:23 am Great read! I always enjoy history and backstory on all of these pieces and how they progress through time.
Well, that's what I remember to the best of my fuzzy memory from the time. It's all a bit of a blur, as that was just one of several product lines me departments was responsible for at the time.

I wish I had those old UC product files from back then. I have very little from 1999-early 2000 when Sting, Glamdring, and the WK swords were made. All the prop photos, CAD files, and Weta/New l Line Cinema correspondence are long gone as they were on DAT backups that could not be recovered. The physical files disappeared when UC was bought and moved to Georgia.
N2darkness wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 7:23 am So, after receiving a Weta prop do you consider the MC version to be as accurate as UC can produce?

I'm curious as to how the newer improved version of Sting will compare to the MC. I'll definitely be buying a blue version should it ever get released.
The MC version is pretty close, but those pits in the guard meant to simulate the weathering on the props were too large. The vine was always a bit to shiny for me as well.

The improved standard UC version will have the same finish on the parts as the standard version does now, but the guard will match the shape of the MC and Hobbit versions. The blade shape will also be the same as the MC. The grip on the current production Sting is slightly longer and thinner than the original Sting UC used to sell, back when it was real wood. That will be fixed. The blade etch will be changed to the more correct etch, like the MC.
KRDS

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Jamie Shakespeare wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:31 am loved reading all this info Kit. You mention paint change - what was that? I cant really tell from online photos any difference between the two versions of the mace
It's probably the same mace prototype in the photo being used to sell both versions.

The original production mace was a bit brighter than my prop and the approval sample. The steel coloring was supposed to have a bit more of the blackened iron look, but it was more silvery in production. I had them correct that, but I don't think I ever saw a Red Eye version from production, so I'm not sure how much it actually changed. It was just a subtle difference.
KRDS

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Jamie Shakespeare wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 5:01 am Agreed, the cheap polyester ones have already been don't by the german company Flaggen-Pehl - I have several, they're ok, but nothing special. I would hope UC could go a step above - a heavier fabric with perhaps a mix of embroidery and screen printing? Im sure people would rather pay $250 for a decent flag over $80 for a silkscreen polyester print (which is already available anyway)
Valkrist wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 5:23 am Not that I currently have plans or space to buy new banners, but if UC is to dip their toes in that, I hope they are at least one or two notches higher in quality over the old ones, of which I own quite a few. Of course, make them too fancy and they become too expensive for the average buyer, but hopefully there's a comfortable middle ground there. I like the banner that came with the original Gondor shield, and I'm hoping the one that comes with the MC Anduril is similar in quality.
As I said above, the printed polyester cloth is exactly what UC is looking at doing. A printed cloth banner with wood hanging rod and end caps can retail for $50 or less. Another reason they are looking at printed polyester is that most of the LOTR banners are designed to be horizontal, not vertical. That's more suitable as a house flag, not strictly for in home display, so the weatherproof factor of polyester is more appealing. It's just an idea in development at this stage though. Nothing has been decided.

They did look at the cost to sell cloth banners similar to what UC included with the Gondor shield - with silk screened art, separate hemmed edging, and hanging rod - but it's really high. They
are not sure there is enough market demand for a $125-150 banner to justify the MOQ required. The more complicated ones with 7-8 colors would be even higher.

Banners like this with simple spot colors are easy to do with silk screens.
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Banners with gradations of color tones, like these Elven banners, can't be done with silk screened spot colors, so the only way to get that hand dyed look economically is 4 color printing on polyester.
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KRDS

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Nasnandos wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 5:59 am The MC version is pretty close, but those pits in the guard meant to simulate the weathering on the props were too large. The vine was always a bit to shiny for me as well.

The improved standard UC version will have the same finish on the parts as the standard version does now, but the guard will match the shape of the MC and Hobbit versions. The blade shape will also be the same as the MC. The grip on the current production Sting is slightly longer and thinner than the original Sting UC used to sell, back when it was real wood. That will be fixed. The blade etch will be changed to the more correct etch, like the MC.
I had the same thoughts on the shiny vine as well, but chalked it up to being a special edition. Kind of like the Weta MSSC version with the metal inlay, not movie accurate but a nice touch.

I look forward to new improved Sting and hopefully a "blue" version as well.

As for the banners, I no longer have space for them but have a few and make great backdrops for photos. It would have been nice if UC would have included them with all of their pieces not just the shield. So over time you could have had a collection of them as well and not to have to buy them separately. But I'm sure there is a market for them, even more so it more pole arms are involved!

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DracoAdamantus wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 5:12 am Looks like the Strider Scabbard reissue is up for preorder!

https://www.budk.com/The-Sword-Of-Strid ... ensed-6023
That's the old photography they are using, but the reissue will have the handle strap for the knife and the upper hanger strap moved to the position as it was seen in FOTR, more like this.
Image


The lower strap will stay where it was on the first version, as that is how it usually appeared in the films. The embossing will also be slightly modified to be more prop accurate.
KRDS

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Kit, I have a feeling this has been asked before so apologies in advance. We all have a terrible collective memory :D

Why was the throat added to the strider scabbard? In the movies it clearly doesn’t have one. Was it to try and make it more durable? I can imagine leather would peel after a while if it was just glue and the bare wooden edge left exposed. Or maybe it was to prevent the scabbard from cracking if someone sheathed their sword a little too hard?
"All those moments will be lost, in time... like tears, in the rain..."

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Lindir wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 8:26 am Why was the throat added to the strider scabbard?
It was a production limitation. Instead of the blade fitting tightly to the wood inside, it fit against the leather wrapping inside the end. They tried it, but they either ended up with glue blobs inside the scabbard that jammed the blade, or the blade pulled the leather out of the end after repeatedly sheathing it. There was no way to do it consistently in production, so the factory wanted to add the cap secure and hide the end of the leather wrap. If I had the chance to do it over against I would have rejected that idea and tooled up a small green injection molded cap instead of that big metal cap. The green would never exactly match the leather color, but it would have been less obtrusive and a better match to the prop look.
KRDS

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I know it can't be helped and I'm certainly not debating UC's right to make updates to their products during reissues, but it always irritates me a little when I find out about these 'accuracy' improvements, and that my original piece doesn't have them. Part of the satisfaction of collecting these things when they first come out is knowing that you don't have to worry about paying silly prices later on the aftermarket, or having to settle for an inferior reissue, as has been the case with some. But when it's the reverse, it gets annoying. Now I have to look at my Strider scabbard and wonder if I need to update it to get the 'new and improved, more accurate' version. No one is twisting my arm of course, but for OCD accuracy sticklers like me, it's irritating. :huh:

One other thing I've noticed on this scabbard even going back to the original release is that I think the very first ones to be shipped out (such as mine) never came with the leather straps that attach the scabbard to a belt. They have the green leather bits with the buckle, but not the second part, with the brown leather and hoops for the belt. This was also missing on my original Sting scabbard. By the time the Glamdring and Anduril scabbards were being released, these were always included.
This Space for Rent

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Valkrist wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 9:20 am I know it can't be helped and I'm certainly not debating UC's right to make updates to their products during reissues, but it always irritates me a little when I find out about these 'accuracy' improvements, and that my original piece doesn't have them. Part of the satisfaction of collecting these things when they first come out is knowing that you don't have to worry about paying silly prices later on the aftermarket, or having to settle for an inferior reissue, as has been the case with some. But when it's the reverse, it gets annoying. Now I have to look at my Strider scabbard and wonder if I need to update it to get the 'new and improved, more accurate' version. No one is twisting my arm of course, but for OCD accuracy sticklers like me, it's irritating. :huh:
Well, prepare to possibly be annoyed and irritated with every reissue, because If I have the opportunity to get UC improve or correct something, I will take it every time :)
It usually goes the other way, where the reissue loses some accuracy because of cost or some production issue. UC did not agree to everything I wanted to improve, but I at least got to fix a couple of little things that did not add to the cost. I really wanted to get rid of that metal throat locket, but it would have added too much tooling.

I revised the embossing slightly because I have better photos reference now than I did back then, but I doubt most people will even notice the difference. Our urethane prop barely had any embossing visible so we did not have much to work with in 2001. The strap positions on the original UC version were based on the contradictory prop and photo reference we had at the time. I got better hero prop images much later, plus the DVD of TTT pretty much cemented a "final" position for me, with this scene.

Image
Valkrist wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 9:20 am One other thing I've noticed on this scabbard even going back to the original release is that I think the very first ones to be shipped out (such as mine) never came with the leather straps that attach the scabbard to a belt. They have the green leather bits with the buckle, but not the second part, with the brown leather and hoops for the belt. This was also missing on my original Sting scabbard. By the time the Glamdring and Anduril scabbards were being released, these were always included.
It was not missing on the original production runs of either of those. They were never included, and not intended to be.

How I got those added is a whole other story, which I'm sure I have probably talked about here before. Basically I took advantage of two separate leather factory mistakes for different products, which allowed me to get those added for free to the later runs of the UC1366 and UC1264. It kind of back fired on me because the cost increased to keep including them in subsequent production runs. I think they actually did get removed from the last production runs of one of those scabbards at the old UC. They were not even remotely correct anyway. There were no suede straps on the props.
Last edited by Nasnandos on Wed Jan 04, 2023 3:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
KRDS

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Nasnandos wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 8:54 am
Lindir wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 8:26 am Why was the throat added to the strider scabbard?
It was a production limitation. Instead of the blade fitting tightly to the wood inside, it fit against the leather wrapping inside the end. They tried it, but they either ended up with glue blobs inside the scabbard that jammed the blade, or the blade pulled the leather out of the end after repeatedly sheathing it. There was no way to do it consistently in production, so the factory wanted to add the cap secure and hide the end of the leather wrap. If I had the chance to do it over against I would have rejected that idea and tooled up a small green injection molded cap instead of that big metal cap. The green would never exactly match the leather color, but it would have been less obtrusive and a better match to the prop look.
Very interesting. Despite the inaccuracy of it, I think it looks nice. I mean sure, it'd be nicer if it was prop accurate but it's one of the rare times when the change doesn't really bug me so much.

Kit, I'm sure you're not at liberty to share numbers but I'm always curious as to what the extra cost is to retool these replicas. For instance, if you had been able to add the green injection molded cap, how much more would it increase production cost and ultimately retail cost? Speaking for myself (although I'm sure most here share my sentiment), I'd be willing to pay a higher premium to cover the added cost in tooling and materials to have that extra bit of accuracy. I certainly realize most buyers aren't as concerned with accuracy as we are. Nevertheless, would it result in the scabbard costing a little more -say $50 or less per unit- or a lot more -say over $100 per unit?

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Ronin wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 5:39 pm Kit, I'm sure you're not at liberty to share numbers but I'm always curious as to what the extra cost is to retool these replicas. For instance, if you had been able to add the green injection molded cap, how much more would it increase production cost and ultimately retail cost? Speaking for myself (although I'm sure most here share my sentiment), I'd be willing to pay a higher premium to cover the added cost in tooling and materials to have that extra bit of accuracy. I certainly realize most buyers aren't as concerned with accuracy as we are. Nevertheless, would it result in the scabbard costing a little more -say $50 or less per unit- or a lot more -say over $100 per unit?
I'm sure a few of the long time LOTR collectors on this forum would happily pay $40-50 more per unit, or whatever the tooling cost would be after amortizing it over the quantity of the production run. UC has to look at what the average collector will pay though. This one was already a huge gamble, so I don't think anything that added to the cost was really even going to be considered. In the old days UC could sell sword scabbards for around half or less of the cost of the swords. Now they they have to sell for about 3/4 the cost of the sword, and rising. This one costs more than the sword to make. I think the retail is $20 than the sword at $240.

Historically, the closer they get to the sword cost, the less units they sell. I guess it's just psychological thing that makes people think a scabbard should only cost a fraction of what the sword costs. I was actually surprised UC decided to proceed with this. I think they thought there may be enough collector interest out there to justify it since it had never been reissued before. I hope so, because that's a hard sell in this economy.
Last edited by Nasnandos on Wed Jan 04, 2023 4:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
KRDS

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AlexMar wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 1:33 am Got a question regarding the Isildir sword re-issue:

Did the blade in the end get reworked ( removal of the stars on the blade ) and are there any pictures yet of the new version that show the reworked handle aswell?
Yes on the first, no one the second. Up to this point I have only seen parts. The hilt is looking good, but getting the hollow grinds and fuller on the blade closer to the prop dimensions and look has proved to be a struggle.
KRDS

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Nasnandos wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 4:19 am
Ronin wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 5:39 pm Kit, I'm sure you're not at liberty to share numbers but I'm always curious as to what the extra cost is to retool these replicas. For instance, if you had been able to add the green injection molded cap, how much more would it increase production cost and ultimately retail cost? Speaking for myself (although I'm sure most here share my sentiment), I'd be willing to pay a higher premium to cover the added cost in tooling and materials to have that extra bit of accuracy. I certainly realize most buyers aren't as concerned with accuracy as we are. Nevertheless, would it result in the scabbard costing a little more -say $50 or less per unit- or a lot more -say over $100 per unit?
I'm sure a few of the long time LOTR collectors on this forum would happily pay $40-50 more per unit, or whatever the tooling cost would be after amortizing it over the quantity of the production run. UC has to look at what the average collector will pay though. This one was already a huge gamble, so I don't think anything that added to the cost was really even going to be considered. In the old days UC could sell sword scabbards for around half or less of the cost of the swords. Now they they have to sell for about 3/4 the cost of the sword, and rising. This one costs more than the sword to make. I think the retail is $20 than the sword at $240.

Historically, the closer they get to the sword cost, the less units they sell. I guess it's just psychological thing that makes people think a scabbard should only cost a fraction of what the sword costs. I was actually surprised UC decided to proceed with this. I think they thought there may be enough collector interest out there to justify it since it had never been reissued before. I hope so, because that's a hard sell in this economy.
Well, I'll tell you...just to give you an insight into how my view changed on what I'd be willing to pay. When I first started collecting, the Hobbit/LOTR props that UC still had in production were almost all under $200 with the exception of things like the bows and helms. In my mind, anything over $200 was too much unless it was something limited or out of production. When it came to scabbards, anything UC still had was under $100 (mainly because of clearance discounting). So, I regarded anything over $100 as being too much. Now? After years of waiting and hoping for UC to reissue the older scabbards, and factoring in the state of manufacturing in the world and increased costs, $200+ for a scabbard is a price I'll pay without complaint. I suspect every long time collector feels the same way. As for average collectors and what they'd be willing to pay, that remains to be seen but I have a feeling they'll pay it too. The world has gotten more expensive and most buyers understand that.

The collector base has only gotten bigger since UC started its LOTR replica line. I'm confident the demand for the Strider scabbard is out there.

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If I had known that the Strider scabbard would be reissued, I would not have bought it second hand the last year and would buy it now new at that price without hesitation. I paid over €300 for it without any hassle, so the official price of this relaunch seems even cheap to me.

For my part, a small price increase in exchange for greater precision is well received.

Luckily I didn't buy Glamdring's white scabbard before the re-release was announced (and I was just about), and I haven't bought too many second hand items and may be a potential customer for future reissues. I have only bought second hand: Strider's scabbard, Gimli's two discontinued axes and the staff of Gandalf the white)... everything else I bought in the store and I only have what they have re-released or remained in stock until I started to collect.
Nasnandos wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 11:48 am I revised the embossing slightly because I have better photos reference now than I did back then, but I doubt most people will even notice the difference. Our urethane prop barely had any embossing visible so we did not have much to work with in 2001. The strap positions on the original UC version were based on the contradictory prop and photo reference we had at the time. I got better hero prop images much later, plus the DVD of TTT pretty much cemented a "final" position for me, with this scene.

Image
As others have commented, it's a shame to hear that my scabbard is less accurate than the new releases, but I'm really glad it gets better in new editions and not just made worse by clippings. I'll just settle for the one I have and try to forget that there's a more accurate one for sale...at least, thanks to the photo you've posted, I can fit the straps in a little more screen-accurate way... like the new editions.

Strider_ReAtado.jpg
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Good thing you did not buy the Glamdring white scabbard! I just put those up for pre-order and have the European shippjling mostly accurate I think. Always hard with singular smaller items like that.
"I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend."

Decide what to defend your castle with at www.castlekon.com

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RevAnakin wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 8:16 pm Good thing you did not buy the Glamdring white scabbard! I just put those up for pre-order and have the European shippjling mostly accurate I think. Always hard with singular smaller items like that.
Thanks!. I already saw the white scabbars pre-order. :)

I'll order them from your store for sure, but I'll wait for when they really come into stock. UC eternize some of the announced releases (Fili or Isildur's sword) and releases others announced much later, such as Glamdring's blue scabbard, doesn't respect the announcement-release order, so I prefer to invest my "budget for whims" in replicas launched at that time and not leaving my money frozen in a pre-order that takes forever. My budget is limited. ...and in the end, those replicas, when they are really launched, I will also buy them with the budget of those months. :P

In addition, I will buy the scabbard for sure with one or more swords, to compensate the shipping costs: for now with the Mirkwood Sword, and let's see if there is luck and I can buy with another sword more if they are finally launched before or at the same time as the scabbard.

I'm sorry for the delay in responding, I've had a hard start to the year, a lot of urgent work, my wife's operation and the death of a family member, all in just a couple of weeks, it's been crazy and I couldn't even enter the forum. I hope the rest of the year is better and much quiet.

By the way, the Helmets arrived perfectly to the Canary Islands and I already have them on my shelf. :)

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Nasnandos wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 9:54 am I know I have said many times before, but those dates on BudK's website are not UC release dates. Unless they actually say "in stock" :)
I know, that's what I was referring to. It seems that I have not explained myself well. I'm not scolding anyone for the release dates on the Budk's website or any other sites.

At this time, I know there's really no true release date ...it's just released when it's released. :)

What I was referring to is that the order in which they are released is not the same as the order in which they are announced. There are replicas that are announced to be launched/re-released (and they are put in pre-order everywhere in that moment), and in the end take more than a year to be finally launched, while others are announced and launched in just a few months.

I just don't have enough money to keep all the pre-orders of the slow-simmering releases and buy the fast-releases ones at the same time. :cry:

I'd rather buy replicas when they're really released than leave all my money frozen in pre-orders and wait empty-handed ...until you have more money to spend on whims to buy too much later those that really go on sale at that moment.

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XerachCruz wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:43 am
I'd rather buy replicas when they're really released than leave all my money frozen in pre-orders and wait empty-handed ...until you have more money to spend on whims to buy too much later those that really go on sale at that moment.
Of course, with Castle Kon's new policy, we are trying to make pre-orders the cheapest possible. Meaning that if you pre-order, you will have locked in a lower price than you should ever get via sales and such. I am trying to help everyone collect everything for the lowest prices possible!
"I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend."

Decide what to defend your castle with at www.castlekon.com

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XerachCruz wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:43 am What I was referring to is that the order in which they are released is not the same as the order in which they are announced. There are replicas that are announced to be launched/re-released (and they are put in pre-order everywhere in that moment), and in the end take more than a year to be finally launched, while others are announced and launched in just a few months.
It's kind of the same thing though. UC has no release order. How Budk, or any dealer for that matter, chooses when they release/announce something is up to them, but as far as UC is concerned there is no specific order they can plan for the releases.

It is as equally frustrating for the various companies I work with to plan their cash flow as it is for the collectors who buy their products to. I wish there was a better system for UC (or Weta) to project actual release dates, or at least rough estimates, but the way things have been going the past few years, it has become even more impossible to estimate with all the unpredictable variables involved. That seems to be the norm since covid, but I hope things will eventually get back to some level or predictability as some point.
KRDS

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