Re: United Cutlery's - The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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lol... that's a loaded question around these parts, Derek. ;)

I know most folks are foaming at the mouth for Orcrist. Personally, I'm not all that impressed by the design. It's less than nothing like what I had imagined, does not resemble Glamdring one bit though the two swords are supposed to be 'mates.' To me, it just looks like an oversized Sting that was sliced right down the middle. With the exception of the hilt, the crossguard and blade are almost exact duplicates of Sting.

Whatever.

Because I am a completist, I will buy it, but it will always be a movie interpretation for me, and a rather strange one at that.

Maces? That's a new category and I would love UC to make at least one. I doubt we will ever see the big cahuna, Sauron's Mace, so I guess I will have to settle for a dwarven one.

Axes? Given that we already have three of Gimli's I'm really not sure how interested I will be in more. Perhaps Thorin's if it's a really nice design (only one photo so far.) Oh, and Beorn's for sure!

Other swords? The dwarven swords look intriguing, may buy one. What I'm really looking forward to however is Thranduil's blade. I really hope it's very cool and along the lines of Haldir's sword. Also, though it won't be until the second movie, I hope Bard has a nice sword also.

Speaking of Bard, his bow would be great.

Glamdring? Nope, got one already and if there's a new one, it should look no different.

Sting without the runes? Still on the fence about this one.

Whichever way all of this goes, I know I will be spending a fair amount of cash. :huh:
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Re: United Cutlery's - The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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Pretty much I am guaranteed to buy the following:

Orcrist (Given that they don't make it over oversized)
Glamdring (Given that it is an improved design, if not, I'll just buy a LotR one.)
Dwalin's Hammer (Yes in any form)
Gandalf's Staves: All of them
Maybe 1-3 Dwarf Swords, but they really have to call out to me.

I am not interested in any other axes until I get myself Gimli's Walking axe.
But if Gloin end's up using it and passing to Gimli, then there is another thing I'll buy!

Re: United Cutlery's - The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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I am for sure getting Orcrist when it comes out just because of what it is. I am sure I will be getting as many others as possible, depending on finances and what is released when, etc.

I have a feeling my wall is going to look like swiss cheese, after the hobbit comes out I will want to hang Orcrist with Sting and Glamdring, etc, but that could wait, I guess until I have a dedicated display room.

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[quote=""Valkrist""]
Axes? Given that we already have three of Gimli's I'm really not sure how interested I will be in more. Perhaps Thorin's if it's a really nice design (only one photo so far.) Oh, and Beorn's for sure!
[/quote]

I don't know. Thorin's Axe is surely different, but it seems kind of small for how mighty he is. But I guess it isn't the size, but how you use it ;)
Image

Re: United Cutlery's - The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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All things considered, and for how many dwarves there are in this movie, there is a considerable dearth of axes, which is supposed to be their hallmark weapon. Then again, that could just simply be a fantasy stereotype and Jackson opted to diversify their weapon choices as much as he did their physical appearance. I'm still a little put out as to how some folks are heavily criticizing this decision while failing to see how necessary it is for an audience to tell all these guys apart, but that's a discussion for another thread.
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[quote=""Valkrist""]All things considered, and for how many dwarves there are in this movie, there is a considerable dearth of axes, which is supposed to be their hallmark weapon. Then again, that could just simply be a fantasy stereotype and Jackson opted to diversify their weapon choices as much as he did their physical appearance. I'm still a little put out as to how some folks are heavily criticizing this decision while failing to see how necessary it is for an audience to tell all these guys apart, but that's a discussion for another thread.[/quote]

Quoted and moved to the Hobbit thread!

Re: United Cutlery's - The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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I want Orcrist too, and Thorin's Dwarven sword if they make it. I will be buying the sting without runes as well, and also Gandalf's staff. Orcrist is the priority though and its scabbard if and when its made.

Elvenguard13 and I'm the 13th poster in this thread.... weird.
Last edited by Lindir on Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
"All those moments will be lost, in time... like tears, in the rain..."

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[quote=""RevAnakin""]What if the Glamdring gets improved and closer to the movie prop?[/quote]

You've now made several allusions to a new and improved Glamdring that would be closer to the prop. Could you e xp lain more specifically what this would entail for you? I think UC's first version is pretty much spot on. Even if the MC has a more realistic weight and clearer hilt gem, the runes are wrong and I highly doubt they will do a second MC run of the same sword. So, what exactly are you envisioning as an improvement, bearing in mind it will be mass-produced to maximize cost effectiveness and profit margins?
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Re: United Cutlery's - The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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[quote=""RevAnakin""]What if the Glamdring gets improved and closer to the movie prop?[/quote]

Yeah, I echo Val. I don't see much that should be done to improve it. Honestly, the only way I'd buy another Glamdring would probably be if either A) I became a sad and lonely completist, looking for anything new to put in my collection because I've already bought it all :P or B) They do make a better version and I decide to go full out on a "Gandalf Display" for The Hobbit that would center around this new, amazing Glamdring that I better get a real good deal on. :crazy:

:coolsmile
"Remember, the force will be with you, always."

Re: United Cutlery's - The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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[quote=""Fingolfin""]Yeah, I echo Val. I don't see much that should be done to improve it. Honestly, the only way I'd buy another Glamdring would probably be if either A) I became a sad and lonely completist, looking for anything new to put in my collection because I've already bought it all :P or B) They do make a better version and I decide to go full out on a "Gandalf Display" for The Hobbit that would center around this new, amazing Glamdring that I better get a real good deal on. :crazy:

:coolsmile [/quote]

Who knows, they might make a plaque so awesome that everyone will be scrambling just to get a hold of it!?! Who knows, either way, I think I'll wait. More swords on the market, more saturation and I have a better chance of even scoring an old one for cheaper. Unless, demand increases faster, but I doubt that will happen as much.


Currently working on the translation from Dwarvish to English. I can't seem to find it, going to LotR Plaza for help

Image
Last edited by RevAnakin on Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: United Cutlery's - The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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Thanks for the reply, Rev. I still doubt we are going to see any changes in Glamdring, and a new plaque certainly won't be enough to make me go out and buy the sword again.

As for what is written on those axes, no true Tolkien linguist that I know of would be able to help you. The language of the dwarves, Khuzdul, was so secretive that only a very few words were known to outsiders, such as the names of dwarven places and their war cry. In fact, one of the only non-dwarves that Tolkien says learned the language was Eol the smith. The dwarves never spoke it in the presence of others and even the names they gave to people they met (Thorin, Balin, Gimli, etc) were not their true dwarf-names but given instead for the benefit of outsiders.

In the FOTR movie, I believe Gimli can be heard venting his grief in what sounds like Khuzdul when they find Balin's Tomb in the Chamber Mazarbul. I feel this was a mistake by Jackson who probably thought it would be cool to have the audience hear dwarven spoken, but likely would not have happened unless you want to say Gimli completely lost control of himself.

My point here is, the names/words on the axes are most likely made up and their translation, if any, would only be conjecture because hardly any vocabulary exists for that language.

Edit: Oh, just remembered. There is another scene in one of the movies where Gimli utters something apparently rude in what sounds like dwarven. Someone else (can't remember who) comments on how impolite the comment is. Again, a stupid decision to show off something that runs contrary to the vein of what Tolkien wrote. Either Gimli has gone completely rogue and doesn't give a crap about anyone hearing his people's secret language, or in PJ's version of Middle-earth, there is no such thing as a secret dwarven language. The fact that someone else can understand him and say that was not nice attests to the erroneous depiction of Khuzdul in the movies, at least with regards to correct Tolkien lore.
Last edited by Valkrist on Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:53 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: United Cutlery's - The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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[quote=""Valkrist""]Thanks for the reply, Rev. I still doubt we are going to see any changes in Glamdring, and a new plaque certainly won't be enough to make me go out and buy the sword again.

As for what is written on those axes, no true Tolkien linguist that I know of would be able to help you. The language of the dwarves, Khuzdul, was so secretive that only a very few words were known to outsiders, such as the names of dwarven places and their war cry. In fact, one of the only non-dwarves that Tolkien says learned the language was Eol the smith. The dwarves never spoke it in the presence of others and even the names they gave to people they met (Thorin, Balin, Gimli, etc) were not their true dwarf-names but given instead for the benefit of outsiders.

In the FOTR movie, I believe Gimli can be heard venting his grief in what sounds like Khuzdul when they find Balin's Tomb in the Chamber Mazarbul. I feel this was a mistake by Jackson who probably thought it would be cool to have the audience hear dwarven spoken, but likely would not have happened unless you want to say Gimli completely lost control of himself.

My point here is, the names/words on the axes are most likely made up and their translation, if any, would only be conjecture because hardly any vocabulary exists for that language.

Edit: Oh, just remembered. There is another scene in one of the movies where Gimli utters something apparently rude in what sounds like dwarven. Someone else (can't remember who) comments on how impolite the comment is. Again, a stupid decision to show off something that runs contrary to the vein of what Tolkien wrote. Either Gimli has gone completely rogue and doesn't give a crap about anyone hearing his people's secret language, or in PJ's version of Middle-earth, there is no such thing as a secret dwarven language. The fact that someone else can understand him and say that was not nice attests to the erroneous depiction of Khuzdul in the movies, at least with regards to correct Tolkien lore.[/quote]

I know that the house of Hador learned many a dwarf word because of their outstanding friendship with the Longbeards. But other than that you are correct in saying that pretty much no one knew the language (except Galadriel knew a bit). I was just wondering if anyone had any thoughts that the words may not even been Dwarvish. The other possibility is that they are more like initials for full words.

On the movie Gimli comments I can see how some would be frustrated. To me the Balin tomb cry out was justified, the poor guy is sad! On the Haldir insult, "I spit on your grave," eh it was in the extended and cut anyways. To me, I know many an insult and curse words in other languages, but not much else. Although it may be completely "un"Tolkien, it isn't unrealistic for someone as wise as Aragorn to tell Gimli, "Now that wasn't very polite."

To me, Gimli screams out a dwarf battle cry at Hornburg in the book, so it is written in his character to blurt out this secret language in his rage. So I cut slack on the Balin death cry, but not so much to the Haldir insult. They could have just had Gimli insult him in Elvish and it would have been that much more canon for sure.

Other than that, I guess we have to wait until October when Kit could tell us what Salo made up, because even if it isn't Tolkien, it is good fun to know. For all we know they say, "Left" and "Right," or "Wam" "Bam" and his giant hammer says "Thank you mam!" :D
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[quote=""RevAnakin""]For all we know they say, "Left" and "Right," or "Wam" "Bam" and his giant hammer says "Thank you mam!" :D [/quote]

I would pay serious money to see that revealed as the truth! :crazy2:

As for Gimli's lack of concern for Khuzdul's secrecy, I disregarded his war cry at the Hornburg because it had already been mentioned that the dwarves were not shy about that particular phrase. It was often the last thing their enemies ever heard.

I'll give you that his grief likely overcame him at Balin's Tomb, but I find the Lorien scene inexcusable. For all the cool stuff the extended editions added back in, there were just as many questionable lore transgressions, this being one of the more serious offenders.
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Re: United Cutlery's - The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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[quote=""Valkrist""]...but I find the Lorien scene inexcusable. For all the cool stuff the extended editions added back in, there were just as many questionable lore transgressions, this being one of the more serious offenders.[/quote]

Honestly, the whole scene should never have been added back. Legolas is wearing the first costume they put him in. Practically an embroidered shirt, no leather, nothing. That was one of the first scenes they ever shot and soon after remade Legolas' costume completely.

Again, a simple and canon fix would have been to have Gimli curse in Elvish, since Tolkien wrote that dwarves were always willing to learn new languages rather than teach their own.

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[quote=""Valkrist""]There is another scene in one of the movies where Gimli utters something apparently rude in what sounds like dwarven. Someone else (can't remember who) comments on how impolite the comment is.[/quote]

That scene was in FOTR and the phrase was (spelled phonetically), "Eesh kaqwee, aiduroog nool". Aragorn replies, "That was not so courteous", which indicated that Aragorn understood Dwarvish.(??)

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So Fin's post in the Hobbit thread reminded me: Monday is when UC is finally going to officially announce their Hobbit lineup and start distributing product to retailers, right?

So for those of us who put in our preorders and payments for the Grey Staff, what is the estimated wait time before shipping them out to us? I guess my next question is, how soon do we have to pony up for Orcrist?
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Re: United Cutlery's - The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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Now you guys know what I was hinting at about being able to look at the sword from more than one direction, when there were complaints about the one element about this sword that was actually described in the book not being there. That's meant to be the heraldry of of the Fountain. There will be notes about the emblem design on the certificate, based on info from Weta.

I literally just shot those photos for UC last week, the day I finished up the prototype. It was a good feeling, holding the final sword in my hands. That grip was a nightmare, but I think the end result works.
KRDS

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I saw that. I guess that is an official announcement of sorts for the Kili sword. What is out there now for preorder is just the first wave. UC is trying to time releases to be easy on the wallet.

[quote=""Fingolfin""]I love the emblem, it makes the tooth much more bearable. Great job on that one, Kit, I'm sure it will look great. So now can you tell us what the handle is made of on UC's replica?[/quote]
I looked at several materials to cast it from and settled on Acrilic resin. There are specific details that had to be replicated from the prop tooth, so we had it laser scanned to build the molds, but making casting molds for the guard and pommel that fit the tooth precisely was not an easy thing. It took many tries. I'm glad it's done, but I don't want to see that sword again for a while :)

The tooth does not bother me at all now, but when i first saw the concept art, then the prop photos...I knew what it was, but did not know what to think. Holding the prop in my hand, then reading Weta's notes about it changed my tune quickly.
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KRDS

Re: United Cutlery's - The Hobbit - Movie Props!

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[quote=""Nasnandos""]I saw that. I guess that is an official announcement of sorts for the Kili sword. What is out there now for preorder is just the first wave. UC is trying to time releases to be easy on the wallet.


I looked at several materials to cast it from and settled on Acrilic resin. There are specific details that had to be replicated from the prop tooth, so we had it laser scanned to build the molds, but making casting molds for the guard and pommel that fit the tooth precisely was not an easy thing. It took many tries. I'm glad it's done, but I don't want to see that sword again for a while :)

The tooth does not bother me at all now, but when i first saw the concept art, then the prop photos...I knew what it was, but did not know what to think. Holding the prop in my hand, then reading Weta's notes about it changed my tune quickly.[/quote]

Could you also tell us about how its all construced? Is it as secure as the other swords in UC's line? Although you're not really supposed to swing them, we all like too and I have an awful image in my head of the handle sliding right off the tang when its swung
"All those moments will be lost, in time... like tears, in the rain..."

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UC's movie replicas almost always have stainless blades with false edges, so not battle ready in anyway simply due to that, but the construction and tang strength really depends on which sword it is. The weapon design kind of dictates it. Glamdring, Hadhafang, and the Elven War sword are examples of three completely different kinds of construction, dictated by the design and production methods. Each have different strengths and weak points. I beat the hell out of one of the first Glamdrings and it held up great, so if I had to use it in a pinch to subdue a home invader, not a problem. I would not do that with the Witchking sword because I know the tang is two sections welded together, or the Elven War Sword because the filler material in the handle seams will crack out. I know of one person's Hadhafang grip that developed cracks because he decided to chop brush with it.

Orcrist has a solid tang design, but it tapers down to such a small size to anchor it in that pommel, and the fact that the grip where all the stress is stored is acrylic resin and also tapers very thin, make me suggest you don't go trying to hack through anything solid with one. It will likely hold up to a good beating, but you may be rewarded with a cracked grip.

On the other hand, the Kili sword we are working is a whole different animal. It's still being developed, but it will have a cast stainless tool steel blade around 3/8 thick and a full tang, more of a traditional straight sword handle. The design dictates that's how it has to be made. I e xp ect it will hold up very well because it is the same cast steel I use in my M48 Hawk axe, and that's the #1 selling tomahawk on the market, with plenty of real world use. But again, these are movie prop replicas with no edge for a reason.
KRDS

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Hi Kit, great news overall and yes, the heraldic device and the gemstones do make the tooth a little easier to bear. ;)

Here is my main concern about that pommel piece, which I hope you can put to rest: many people, including myself, had a problem with the pommel cap falling off on the Strider Knife due to the type of glue used. It was an easy fix, but not one that should be foisted upon the customer. The one on Orcrist seems to be ripe for sliding off just by virtue of its design. What can you tell us about how it is secured to the grip?
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The pommel I am referring to is internal. Production swords like this are not thru-pommel peened tangs, so almost all of the LOTR pommels are technically caps, bonded over the actual pommel bolts with industrial epoxy. It's great stuff, when it is used, but that's not what they used on the first few hundred Strider knives. This one has a lot of surface, plus, if they follow the tolerances I set, it should have a friction fit as well as the bond. It's more like Hadhafang in that regard, but larger. All I can do is trust UC's factory does it right, but I plan on testing the preproduction samples for exactly that. I'm more concerned with the tip of the tooth breaking off.
KRDS

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We don't really know what Weta is making, but I assume they will do whatever they want to. They have the Polyurethane prop replicas, like the stuff they have shown so far, and the Master Swordsmith replicas. One is more for the prop collector who wants something actually made by Weta from the film molds, and the other is in such a different price range from what we are doing that we really don't affect each other. Gives the collector a choice. We already know they are making an Orcrist.

I'm happy for them. They were limited last time to what they could do, but I think they have a much better deal this time. I have a bunch of their LOTR collectibles, so I can't wait to see what they put out. Already have my Key to Erebor on order!
KRDS

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They prefer I don't talk about anything that has not been announced, so I can't help you there. I will say we are focused on the primary character weapons right now though. There are a few things I want from Weta too, and I don't even know for sure what will end up getting made by UC, beyond what has been announced. A lot depends on how film 1 performs and how the collector response is.
KRDS

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